Sport Football Thread 2011/2012

[hereticboy]

My favourite part is that the angry Euro Tory says "The EU cannot impose an artificial European identity on us by forcing our athletes to wear its emblem." when in fact the EU isn't forcing anyone to wear anything.

[El Pibe]

Fuck John Terry and fuck the FA.

That is all.

[El Pibe]

It seems the FA listened as the reports this morning say that Terry will be stripped of the captaincy (again!).

I hope that paves the way for Capello to drop him altogether.

I was amazed to hear it suggested on 5Live this morning that England would have been move successful in the World Cup if Terry had been captain. It's baffling. If anything, we'd have been move successful if he had been dropped and so wasn't horribly exposed by the Germans!

[aidey6]

It's just a shame that Rio's injuries have knackered the chance of even making the england squad, as I'd love to have heard his press conference if Don Fabio had reinstated him........

[Art Vandelay]

The importance we place on a largely ceremonial role must be hilarious to the rest of the world.

[Daley]

Confirmed he has been stripped of the captaincy.

http://www.mirrorfoo...icle860761.html

The importance we place on a largely ceremonial role must be hilarious to the rest of the world.

It's very important that we know who will lift all those trophies.

[El Pibe]

The importance we place on a largely ceremonial role must be hilarious to the rest of the world.

I completely agree. When did this start? Was it with Beckham and then his ridiculous 'resignation' as captain?

[Art Vandelay]

I completely agree. When did this start? Was it with Beckham and then his ridiculous 'resignation' as captain?

Probably was I think. Before Beckham I'd be hard pressed to think who it was on a consistent basis - Adams and Shearer maybe? It seems that silly piece of elasticated material is just another thing for everyone to get all needlessly excited about.

Presumably this doesn't mean Terry will be dropped all together though, begging the question, what's the fucking point then?

[Stig]

Why is it ridiculous that some steps down as captain?

[Stig]

Probably was I think. Before Beckham I'd be hard pressed to think who it was on a consistent basis - Adams and Shearer maybe? It seems that silly piece of elasticated material is just another thing for everyone to get all needlessly excited about.

Presumably this doesn't mean Terry will be dropped all together though, begging the question, what's the fucking point then?

We're a mix raced team and some of the players might not react to his leadership/orders of they feel resentment for him

[Art Vandelay]

We're a mix raced team and some of the players might not react to his leadership/orders of they feel resentment for him

Well yeah, but presumably if he's not fit to be captain then he's not fit to play in the side? I don't think for a minute he is actually innocent, but what if he's found not guilty? What a cock up that's going to look like. It would have been easier if he'd have been sensible enough to step aside from the England team until this was sorted out but I suppose that's probably too much to ask for. Actually, whilst we're wishing for things it would have been nice if Terry's old man finished into a tissue that moonlit night 31 years ago but that's life for you.

[JDubYes]

I think there's always a big fuss just about every time there's a new manager/injury complication, hasn't there? I even remember the news showing (I think) Hoddle taking aside both Adams and Shearer during a training session and supposedly explaining to them his thinking behind his decision to make one of them (Shearer, in this case) captain over the other. It's always considered hugely significant, at least in the press, even moreso than who's captain of all of the club sides, despite that arguably being much more relevant and important.

As Art says though, I think it's probably considered a bit odd elsewhere, where it just seems like, with the possible exception of Italy and Germany, they've always just seemed to give it to a well-respected and/or liked senior player and think no more of it. In fact, I'm hard-pressed to name an another international captain besides a couple of the obvious ones from the aforementioned two nations (Cannavaro, Matthaus, Ballack (?), Kahn (?)).

To be honest, typing all that has made me feel a little bit silly about questiioning some of Wenger's choices for the Arsenal captaincy now. He picks one of his best or most well-liked/respected players for the job, hoping the others will follow their (non-vocal) lead, and then lets the team get on with it without worrying about whether or not the man in question will have a slightly patronising shout at his teammates every now and again.

Balls. Now I can't decide how much relevance the captaincy has. I'm pretty sure in most cases it's not that much, though...

EDIT - knew I remembered reading something about Capello not understanding why we invest so much in who's captain - http://www.guardian....ngland-football

Capello has never really understood the English fascination with who captains the team...

"In Spain or Italy, the captain is the oldest player or the one with the most caps," said Capello. "Here it is different. You look at the captain in a different way."

It is amusing how the crux of that article was how Capello was never making Terry captain again after the Wayne Bridge fiasco anyway though....

[phresh]

A captaincy is only really relevant if you have someone who has the respect, ability and leadership skills to do it justice. In a lot of teams it will be ceremonial because that combination is pretty unique. Having ineffectual captains doesn't mean the role is no longer required, it just means the right person doesn't exist. Having ad-hoc captains as and when the right person is in the team would seem a bit weird so it does make sense to have one even if it is largely ceremonial.

[El Pibe]

Why is it ridiculous that some steps down as captain?

It's ridiculous because, in my humble opinion, the England captain should be the most suitable man on the day/for the set of fixtures. By nominating a player as the England captain it effectively makes them undroppable. The permanency also leads to the nonsense we've seen throughout Capello's reign (not necessarily his fault, mind you) of endless media frenzies over who will or won't be the England captain, which has overshadowed the football and, by all accounts, created factions in the dressing room.

The situation with Beckham was ludicrous, I thought, and just blew things completely out of proportion. There was just no need for it and it gave the impression that being England captain was some sort of office.

I'm talking purely about England/the national game where the team play so infrequently. I think the role is different, and more useful, at club level.

[Dudley]

I hate Terry as much as the next man but right now he's innocent so they're idiots.

Especially as the last time he was kicked out it turned out he WAS innocent.

[El Pibe]

I hate Terry as much as the next man but right now he's innocent so they're idiots.

Especially as the last time he was kicked out it turned out he WAS innocent.

A friend of my wife was accused of racially abusing someone where she worked. She was suspended with full pay pending the hearing.*

I think that's quite normal in most workplaces, isn't it?

*She was found to be innocent and returned to work.

[DC Lemon]

Terry wouldn't even be in the squad on merit this season. When he's not being racist, he's falling on his arse.

[AlwaysBeClosing]

I hate Terry as much as the next man but right now he's innocent so they're idiots.

Especially as the last time he was kicked out it turned out he WAS innocent.

He's guilty of lying already isn't he? After the "lippy monkey" remark he made a few years ago.

[Rocafella]

It's a catch 22. Do you leave him as captain and say 'innocent until proven guility' and watch the media circus that surrounds the situation leading up to and during the tournament, which will result in a public shitstorm if he's found guility. Or do you remove him as captain now and gamble on him being guilty. If he isn't, what happens next? Does he get it back yet again?

[JDubYes]

I actually think they've done the right thing, or at least that this is the right outcome. If there's a question of this being distracting or divisive, or of any of the rest of the team having issues with being "lead" by him, then surely he's not the best choice as captain?

To be honest though, I'd rather he wasn't even in the team, though that's to do with the football aspect more than it is the scandal.

[monobrow]

One of the newspaper sports editors on Twitter reminded me of this article from last time Terry was stripped of the captaincy. I love the phrase "It was a masterpiece of brutality".

I can just imagine:

Fabio: Ah, John Terry. Thank you for coming. You're not captain any more. Can you close the door please.

John Terry: It is closed Mr. Capello.

Fabio: No, close it behind you...

There are rumours now that Terry is going to retire from international duty, in protest at his perceived treatment

[SuperCat]

The whole thing is a complete mess. If Terry is guilty then fair enough, but who knows yet? If they'd done it immediately after the incident I would have had more respect for the FA, this dithering and indecisiveness helps noone- not Terry nor the team. And then making him available for selection they're basically saying "we think you're racist, but it's ok you can still play for us". Well which one is it? Either ban him completely, or keep him fully as captain. Strikes me as gutless, and passing the buck to Terry. Now if Terry retires he'll be labelled a racist before his trial, and if he doesn't he'll be labelled as greedy and disrupting the squad.

The whole terry issue aside, it's incredible just how many of the England team have had scandal..when they were going through the possible captains you have to go pretty far down the list to get to a clean reputation. Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Gerrard, Rooney.. were all the 'preferred' choices (by Sky) and every one has been part of some kind of outrage. Just give it to Hart and be done with the whole fucking issue, such drama over an arm band is pathetic and makes no difference to whether we do well or not.

[monobrow]

John Terry is out of this weekend's game against Man Utd with a pride knee injury.

[Charliemouse]

The whole thing is a complete mess. If Terry is guilty then fair enough, but who knows yet? If they'd done it immediately after the incident I would have had more respect for the FA, this dithering and indecisiveness helps noone- not Terry nor the team. And then making him available for selection they're basically saying "we think you're racist, but it's ok you can still play for us". Well which one is it? Either ban him completely, or keep him fully as captain. Strikes me as gutless, and passing the buck to Terry. Now if Terry retires he'll be labelled a racist before his trial, and if he doesn't he'll be labelled as greedy and disrupting the squad.

The whole terry issue aside, it's incredible just how many of the England team have had scandal..when they were going through the possible captains you have to go pretty far down the list to get to a clean reputation. Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Gerrard, Rooney.. were all the 'preferred' choices (by Sky) and every one has been part of some kind of outrage. Just give it to Hart and be done with the whole fucking issue, such drama over an arm band is pathetic and makes no difference to whether we do well or not.

I am fairly sure Scott Parker has not been involved in any scandal and would make a great short term captain.

[neoELITE]

The importance we place on a largely ceremonial role must be hilarious to the rest of the world.

I can only think of two captains for England that were actual captains in the romantic sense - Bobby Moore (for obvious reasons but he didn't captain England in my own lifetime) and Brian Robson.

It's probably important to English fans/media etc. as they have this iconic image to hang onto

They can't imagine anyone who isn't honourable and decent and pure lifting that World Cup because Bobby Moore was (apparently) that type of man. It's a nice thing to hang onto but it probably won't happen anyway.

[Dudley]

I can only think of two captains for England that were actual captains in the romantic sense - Bobby Moore (for obvious reasons but he didn't captain England in my own lifetime) and Brian Robson.

The Brian Robson who cheated on his wife with a sky sports reporter? That "honourable and decent" man?

Or do we mean the Brian Robson who advised undercover reporters on how to take over multiple football clubs without the FA finding out? That Brian Robson?

Or the Brian Robson who deliberately advised people to buy greenbelt land knowing they would lose their money but he'd still get his?

[neoELITE]

The Brian Robson who cheated on his wife with a sky sports reporter? That "honourable and decent" man?

Or do we mean the Brian Robson who advised undercover reporters on how to take over multiple football clubs without the FA finding out? That Brian Robson?

Or the Brian Robson who deliberately advised people to buy greenbelt land knowing they would lose their money but he'd still get his?

I meant Bobby Moore was the supposed honourable one.

Robson was memorable for me as he was the captain for such a long time.

I don't actually hold footballers up as role models.

[exwhyzed]

Bryan for cunt sake

[neoELITE]

Bryan for cunt sake

Brain?

[davidcotton]

Dunno if it's been mentioned anywhere else ESPN is free all weekend. Plenty of Bundeslige, Serie A and the man city game on as well.

Cheers