Sport Football Thread 2011/2012

[Shimmyhill]

Sky sports news summing up does not paint a good picture of Suarez, i wonder what the LFC response will be to this as at the moment their initial response is looking horrifying now.

[Majora]

I only skim-read it because it's fucking massive but, as anyone with common sense would have anticipated, they basically reject the idea that the term would have been used in a friendly manner in the context of the match and video evidence.

There's also a section where Spanish language experts confirm that negro can be used insultingly in Uruguay depending on the context, i.e if said with a sneer.

354. Mr Suarez sought to persuade us that when he used the word "negro" to speak to Mr Evra he was acting in a conciliatory and friendly way, without intent to offend and in a way that would not be seen as offensive in Uruguay. He also said that when he pinched Mr Evra's skin he was trying to defuse the situation.

355. We rejected the evidence of Mr Suarez on these points. The pinching of the skin, and Mr Suarez's admitted use of the word "negro" when speaking to Mr Evra, took place in the

context of heated exchanges between the players. Mr Suarez had fouled Mr Evra in the 58th minute. Mr Evra confronted Mr Suarez in the 63rd minute and complained forcefully

about the foul. Their facial expressions, gesturing and physical movement showed their mutual animosity throughout these exchanges.

356. Mr Suarez's pinching of Mr Evra's skin was not an attempt to defuse the situation. On the contrary, it was an attempt to aggravate Mr Evra and to inflame the situation. Mr Suarez's admitted use of the word "negro" when speaking to Mr Evra was not conciliatory and friendly. It was unfriendly and was used as part of Mr Suarez's attempt to wind up Mr

Evra. The whole tenor of the exchanges was confrontational and argumentative. Adopting the words used by the Spanish language experts, Mr Suarez did not use "negro" with any

sense of rapport or in an attempt to create such rapport.

357. Not only did we reject this evidence of Mr Suarez, but we found it remarkable that he sought to advance a case that was so clearly inconsistent with any sensible appreciation of what happened. Even Mr McCormick accepted in his closing submissions that the pinching could not reasonably be described as an attempt to defuse the situation. To

suggest otherwise, as Mr Suarez did, was unarguable. Mr Suarez's evidence on these topics, which was shown to be flawed, profoundly undermined our confidence in the

reliability of his evidence.

358. Mr Suarez's account of his admitted use of the word "negro" changed several times. He seemed unsure of when the admitted use took place and what triggered it. His account

seemed to change in an attempt to fit in with the video evidence.

[BlinkyBear]

5live is kicking off.

Only because they let some utter belm rant his way into a point where he was accusing the FA of being racists, the utter twat. Jason Roberts has been superb throughout the whole of the Suarez issue.

[Fry Crayola]

The third exchange alleged by Mr Evra was that he said "okay' date=' now I think I'm going to punch you", to which Mr Suarez replied "Dale, negro, negro, negro", meaning "okay, blackie, blackie, blackie". This involves a use of the word "negro" as a form of address. It is the same phrase, "Dale, negro", that Mr Suarez said he used to Yaya Toure in the Manchester City game the previous season. That suggests that it is a recognised phrase, and one that Mr Suarez had used on another occasion. Of course, the same phrase or words, whether in Spanish or English, can be used in a friendly way on one occasion and in an unfriendly way on another. It depends on all the circumstances, including context and tone. [/quote']

Well, I can certainly see how that's unacceptable, regardless of how it was intended.

[MrEPotato]

Only because they let some utter belm rant his way into a point where he was accusing the FA of being racists, the utter twat. Jason Roberts has been superb throughout the whole of the Suarez issue.

Completely agree they turned him down a few times to, what a load of nonsense he was sprouting.

[SaintM]

Mr Suarez's account of his admitted use of the word "negro" changed several times. He seemed unsure of when the admitted use took place and what triggered it. His account

seemed to change in an attempt to fit in with the video evidence.

That there has to be the smoking gun.

[Majora]

Also with regards to the idea that Evra insulted Suarez by calling him a South American or whatever

364. We found that Mr Evra did not use the words "South American" when speaking to Mr Suarez. The language experts were not familiar with its use as an insult, Mr Evra's denial of his alleged use of it was plausible, we found Mr Suarez's evidence unreliable in many respects, and we found Mr Evra generally to be a credible witness.

Ooof.

[hereticboy]

Completely agree they turned him down a few times to, what a load of nonsense he was sprouting.

[exwhyzed]

231. We found Mr Evra to be an impressive witness.

Stick that in your statement

[SaintM]

C'mon now, they clearly sided with Evra because they all hate Liverpool at the FA. In fact, they probably hate foreign Liverpool players more than anyone else and will stop at nothing to tarnish their reputation. They'll even infiltrate an independent review board in order to push their anti-scouse agenda.

[SaintM]

I dunno about anyone else, but this starter has really got me in the mood for the main course next month: Deep Fried Terry.

[Majora]

378. The third exchange alleged by Mr Evra was that he said "okay, now I think I'm going to punch you", to which Mr Suarez replied "Dale, negro, negro, negro", meaning "okay,blackie, blackie, blackie". This involves a use of the word "negro" as a form of address. It is the same phrase, "Dale, negro", that Mr Suarez said he used to Yaya Toure in the Manchester City game the previous season. That suggests that it is a recognised phrase, and one that Mr Suarez had used on another occasion. Of course, the same phrase or words, whether in Spanish or English, can be used in a friendly way on one occasion and in an unfriendly way on another. It depends on all the circumstances, including context and tone.

379. We accepted Mr Evra's account of these exchanges. The principal reasons for doing so were the following. First, Mr Evra was a credible witness whose evidence was not

seriously undermined in any material respect, as explained above. Secondly, we found Mr Suarez, in contrast, to be an unreliable witness on critical parts of his evidence. His

evidence was inconsistent with contemporaneous evidence in the form of video footage, especially with regard to his claims of pinching as an attempt to defuse the situation, and

using the word "negro" in a conciliatory and friendly way. He changed his account over time in a number of respects. This all combined to cast grave doubt on the reliability of the remainder of his evidence on the main factual disputes.

380. Thirdly, the phrase "dale, negro" involved a use of the word "negro" as a form of address which was common in Uruguay. "Dale, negro" was also a phrase that Mr Suarez admitted using to an opposing player in another match. That Mr Evra heard and recalled that particular phrase being used in the goalmouth is credible, and also lends weight to his evidence about other comments in the goalmouth.

[Oh Danny Boy]

I dunno about anyone else, but this starter has really got me in the mood for the main course next month: Deep Fried Terry.

Ha, the FA don't have the minerals to throw the book at the england captain

[Naysonymous]

Holy shit Villa! Only the first second third fourth visiting team to win at Stamford Bridge in about eight years!

If Stephen Ireland carries on playing like that after a night on the booze and smoke, then I think we should install sheesha pipes in the home dressing room at Villa Park!

[McFly]

What is in one of those shisha thing anyway?

[Naysonymous]

Tobacco.

[McFly]

Ah

[Naysonymous]

Dunno what the difference is between that and say a cigarette, a pipe or a cigar though. Never smoked myself, but from what I gather a shisha is a more social activity than a habit which needs to be fed. It is popular in the Arab world and on the Indian subcontinent, and it seems to be increasing in fashion here.

[exwhyzed]

Cooler smoke and taste

[phresh]

Some liverpool fan just came on 606 claiming not to be a blinkered nutter then compared the suarez case to hillsborough and heysel! Amazing.

[Guest]

Doesn't really work as it was 2-3

Man Utd lost 3-2 at home. No one says 2-3 in that context.

Happy New Year!

[paddyo]

Time for Liverpool to man up and sort suarez out, either he played them all for fools making them believe his side of things and allowing the club to release THAT statement, or the club knew what he had said/done in the incident and still decided to stick by him :S

Dirk Kuyt doesnt come out of this looking goo, was he trying to get Evra in trouble/cause more problems or did he genuinely mishear??

and as for Kenny with his immediate response being 'Doesnt Evra have history of this?' plus his tweet etc, got a lot of explaining to do

If suarez lied to the club, his teamates, getting them to wear the t-shirts etc then how can he play for them again?? And if the club knew what he did how can they ever defend him??

[The Fox]

Disciple you're such a bellend.

[Stig]

So everyone's believing what the FA has said because theyve basically sided with what Evra has said. I'm not saying Evras side should be just completely disregarded but it reads like "Evra interviewed impressively, Suarez was a little bit iffy, so we believe whatever Evra said"

The FA accepted every word Evra has said without anyone else to back it up but they won't accept anything Kuyt or Suarez has said.

[toythatkills]

So everyone's believing what the FA has said because theyve basically sided with what Evra has said. I'm not saying Evras side should be just completely disregarded but it reads like "Evra interviewed impressively, Suarez was a little bit iffy, so we believe whatever Evra said"

More like "Evra's testimony matched with the video evidence, Suarez's was entirely inconsistent with the same."

It's nothing to do with who they trust more, it's about Suarez clearly lying about events shown on video making his testimony useless.

[SaintM]

If by 'everyone' you mean the Independent Regulatory Commission, then yes they did believe the FA had a case.

If by a 'little bit iffy' you mean 'provided inconsistent statements' or 'his account seemed to change in an attempt to fit in with the video evidence' then yeah, they did go with the guy who's statement was backed up and seemingly reliable.

It's an outrage, I agree.

[Shimmyhill]

Someone lied there didn't they, then perhaps changed their story?

Indeed, Suarez..

The whole thing stinks.

Suarez does the filthy lying user of racist language.

What i still don't get from the Liverlol lot trying to defend him is that he admitted to saying it but apparently that point is happily overlooked but my favourite bit from the filthy lying user of racist language is that he pinched Evra to defuse the situation....

Maybe the UN should adopt it as a tactic

[Ryan]

Tobacco.

Not in the Muslim lands at least. Or at least not in Egypt. Though you could put it in there if you wanted to.

[AlwaysBeClosing]

Indeed, it's molasses that goes in there, but you're still smoking away - it's just not quite as bad as cigarettes.

[bowser123]

If you honestly believe that Paddyo, then what do you make of Ferguson lying to the ref about what was said? He used such remarkably vile language which we now know to be false.

Why would Ferguson make up such a thing? It's quite disgusting when you think about it - what will Man Utd do about him and his lies?

180. The experts noted that, in interview, Mr Evra translated the word "negro" as French "nègre", which is translatable as both "Negro" and "nigger" and in current French usage is clearly a racially offensive term. The more neutral term in French is "noir".