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Are games backwards?


DJ Sack
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Take Metal Gear Solid for example, throughout the game you gain new weapons and more and more health. But surely it should be the other way around? Start with all your weapons and lose them over the course of the game due to running out of ammo etc (i know that doesnt fit in with the MGS story) and your health should be full to begin with but after each boss should be reduced to make the game harder, as the chracter tires and get injured.

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I agree with the sentiment of the thread, I think the best example of this is Zelda, in pretty much all its incarnations. Can be pretty challenging to start with, but I mean, take TWW for example, I think I've got something like 20 hearts or something, and you start with 3!

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I don't think you've though about how little fun it'd be to play a game in which your reward for completing a level was, well, nothing, except the loss of more health.

Or perhaps getting to a stage in the game that you can't complete because you've used up all your ammo. Like in real life. When you're out saving the world...

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I suppose to totally contradict what I just said, yes if it was more realistic in that sense it'd be less enjoyable, another extreme example, Resident Evil, ammo conservation - boo!

So I'd say games are backwards in a way, but it's fun that way.

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Now you see in Resident Evil limited ammo is essential - the genre (SURVIVAL horror) demands this limitation.

And I also think the whole game revolves around item managment with the limited space you have to carry items on your person. How come herbs take up the same space as a gun?!

They just do. That's the game see?

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I want a fighting game where they get more knackered over the course of the fight.

Bushido Blade, all boxing, wrestling, ultimate fighting games.. and i'm sure a couple of SNK fighting games

Any that aren't dull as dishwater?

Bushido Blade :D

Now you see in Resident Evil limited ammo is essential - the genre (SURVIVAL horror) demands this limitation.

And I also think the whole game revolves around item managment with the limited space you have to carry items on your person. How come herbs take up the same space as a gun?!

They just do. That's the game see?

It should really be called Resident Inventory Management Simulator - and the GC version was about that much fun. :huh:

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I was actually gointo start a thread about how Tony Hawk's is completely backwards. You start of in the game and its really really hard cos you have no stat points, then it gets easier and easier as you build up your points, this is actually ridiculous whenyou think about it.

If fact the first week or two of playing a new tony game is shit cos you spend all you time doing shitty things like collecting SKATE so you can open up new parks, which is made even harder cos you have no stats. Who the fuck came up with this idea?!?!

Why dont they let you play a carreer mode and start of as an all round skater then you become better at the tricks you try the most. Ie like real skateboarding? Like in reall lifeJamie thomas is amazing at doing handrails cos he does that alot etc...

P.S after playing THUG, i cant believe how they ve managed to fuck up one of the best game mechanics ever by tacking driving sections and that run ability on?!?

Though i suppose little 11 year jonny mite think its cool that you get to do really extreme stuff :o "

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I was actually gointo start a thread about how Tony Hawk's is completely backwards.

That thread wouldn't have made sense.

Tony Hawk's is completely different, because this kind of character progression makes absolute sense in real skateboarding too!

I haven't played the game though, so I'll take your word for it that you're bored doing the same old things just to get your stats up.

Maybe it should recognise old Tony Hawks save files on the memory card (EA style) and give you some more stats to play with from the off...

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I was actually gointo start a thread about how Tony Hawk's is completely backwards. You start of in the game and its really really hard cos you have no stat points, then it gets easier and easier as you build up your points, this is actually ridiculous whenyou think about it.

If fact the first week or two of playing a new tony game is shit cos you spend all you time doing shitty things like collecting SKATE so you can open up new parks, which is made even harder cos you have no stats. Who the fuck came up with this idea?!?!

Why dont they let you play a carreer mode and start of as an all round skater then you become better at the tricks you try the most. Ie like real skateboarding? Like in reall lifeJamie thomas is amazing at doing handrails cos he does that alot etc...

P.S after playing THUG, i cant believe how they ve managed to fuck up one of the best game mechanics ever by tacking driving sections and that run ability on?!?

Though i suppose little 11 year jonny mite think its cool that you get to do really extreme stuff :o "

Yeah, that's true. When I picked up a skateboard for the first time I was amazing, sarksliding all over the place and shredding like a motherfucker, but as I continued skating my skills got worst. Oh wait, that's not right...

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I was actually gointo start a thread about how Tony Hawk's is completely backwards. You start of in the game and its really really hard cos you have no stat points, then it gets easier and easier as you build up your points, this is actually ridiculous whenyou think about it.

If fact the first week or two of playing a new tony game is shit cos you spend all you time doing shitty things like collecting SKATE so you can open up new parks, which is made even harder cos you have no stats. Who the fuck came up with this idea?!?!

Why dont they let you play a carreer mode and start of as an all round skater then you become better at the tricks you try the most. Ie like real skateboarding? Like in reall lifeJamie thomas is amazing at doing handrails cos he does that alot etc...

P.S after playing THUG, i cant believe how they ve managed to fuck up one of the best game mechanics ever by tacking driving sections and that run ability on?!?

Though i suppose little 11 year jonny mite think its cool that you get to do really extreme stuff :o "

Yeah, that's true. When I picked up a skateboard for the first time I was amazing, sarksliding all over the place and shredding like a motherfucker, but as I continued skating my skills got worst. Oh wait, that's not right...

Exactly my thoughts. I think hat is why THPS is so great, cos at the beginning of a career it fells pretty much like the real thing until you reach another level.

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Tony hawks is supposed to be about skill, why does your save file mean that you are worse/better at it?

The thing is, the mechanic for getting better (stats wise) doesnt reflect real life at all, instead of being rewarded for geting better at combos etc you are rewarded for compleing boring tasks like collecting skate, which have absolutley no reflection on your skill as a player.

cos at the beginning of a career it fells pretty much like the real thing until you reach another level.

eh?

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I take it you're still able to play with the standard collection of 'famous' skaters in THUG and that you're talking about the career mode?

Anyway it sounds like you have been bored by the game in its opening days' play and I haven't played it, so I'll take your word for it that the character progression has been poorly implemented.

Another reason I grow tired of turn based RPGs that get too hard unless you spend hours levelling up...

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Erm, if you take away stuff as the player plays, then the number of ways they can interact with the world reduces. MGS doesn't get easier as you get more stuff- the difficulty in using it well combined with good level design means it becomes more demanding, and more interesting.

Imagine Metroid where you had to face the final boss with jumping and the standard blaster alone. zzzzzz.

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You've got to be joking. In ALttP, it was nearly impossible to get through any dungeon without full hearts and as many potions as you can currently carry. OoT seems to be going the same way (I just got into Jabu Jabu).

Where the difficulty matches the upgrade (which is where The Wind Waker fails), then it stays challenging, while increasing the scope of player activity (in Zelda games, the length of the dungeons and complexity of the battles).

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Tony hawks is supposed to be about skill, why does your save file mean that you are worse/better at it?

The thing is, the mechanic for getting better (stats wise) doesnt reflect real life at all, instead of being rewarded for geting better at combos etc you are rewarded for compleing boring tasks like collecting skate, which have absolutley no reflection on your skill as a player.

cos at the beginning of a career it fells pretty much like the real thing until you reach another level.

eh?

Tony Hawk's went downhill (Not pun intended) from the second release. It's not really about skateboarding anymore but is actualy very much based on gameplay skills (Like you mentioned). In that sense it makes ense you get "upgrades" from completing certain obscure tasks because the game is so far removed from reality to begin with (to its detriment but that's a whole nother thread)

So yeah, you right, it makes no sense to collect S-K-A-T-E in order to get better skills but then again most of the game requires point scoring rather than any skateboarding skills. Now a Skateboarding 1020(The Snowbard game), THAT would be brilliant...

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You've got to be joking. In ALttP, it was nearly impossible to get through any dungeon without full hearts and as many potions as you can currently carry. OoT seems to be going the same way (I just got into Jabu Jabu).

Where the difficulty matches the upgrade (which is where The Wind Waker fails), then it stays challenging, while increasing the scope of player activity (in Zelda games, the length of the dungeons and complexity of the battles).

Maybe im just god like at gaming (this may be true, as anyone who saw me play top spin will attest at the meet) But ive found bosses in all games get easier, the begining they are hard as a few hits and your dead, while by the end you have so much health it doesnt matter. Sure boses do get hard as you get stronger, but 3 hits kills you in a game when you first start, while by the end it takes over 20.

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