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The Premiership - Official Dressing Room


tyler
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I said most of the smoggies who have been in the leagues for ages, so that rules you out. Like baring, sean and nathan who have all rage quit.

WHEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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The atmosphere in the lower leagues seems as amiable and pleasant as ever (a few altercations aside), but the Premiership has definitely become more adversarial in recent seasons. It used to have the feel of a gentlemen's club, everyone expecting Baring to win and pulling together to get through it, the annoyingly nice Smoggie a common enemy.

Then Jamintastic joins the league, Tyler hits puberty, even Baring himself introduces a new challenger. Suddenly the main man starts losing games and an evil side emerges, culminating in the fateful night when he clicked some red buttons, hands down trousers, panting. The fall of Baring saw the rise of The New Challengers, each sensing a chance to claim his throne. Those in the background saw their chance too; suddenly the Premiership was winnable. Each clambers for position and uses the tools at their disposal; namely the voting systems. Unpopular or overly strong challengers are ganged up on and forced to use lesser teams. Those at the top of the picking-list are viewed with suspicious eyes by those in the middle and at the bottom. How did they get there? Did they vote me, and everyone else, down? Suddenly no-one is innocent or pure.

(I think the peer-rating system needs to go, as it's pulling people apart.)

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(I think the peer-rating system needs to go, as it's pulling people apart.)

I'm not a fan of it either, as most of the ways people are rated are fairly arbitrary. Has the league ever just used the system used in American sports league 'drafts', where the lowest rank team picks first?

So, the new teams promoted from The Championship pick first (the winner 1st, runner-up 2nd and play-off winner 3rd - so there's a reward for finishing higher in The Championship), then the lowest finishing teams in The Premiership and the winner picking last (with The Championship > The Conference, new players can still pick last). It'll give players who probably aren't quite as good a better chance of staying in the league and might keep the league ticking over with a bit of new blood instead of the same faces.

The only problem I can think of is mid-table players with not much to play for purposefully losing their last few games so they fall down the league so they can get a better team the next season, but you'd have to be a bit of an oddball to think like that, wouldn't you? Don't do it.

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Why not also introduce a fair play league systems! With red an yellow recorded and award top picks for best overall performer, then may people would think twice about missed timed tackles and taking players out while through on goal. Could go well with deadrussians idea and elminate some bad blood fellings towards others game players, but its only a thought and I know it would have to be relieant on players recording yellow and red cards so could be a hassel, but it's only an idea........ :huh:

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I can't remember ever getting a card for a slide, as I don't do it. 'A' tackles I've been booked for, but it would be unfair to punish someone because a player mistimed their tackle.

Apparently FIFA 12's standing tackles are manual though, so maybe it could hold some weight there and would be worth a look.

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(I think the peer-rating system needs to go, as it's pulling people apart.)

I always thought the peer ratings should be normalised based on your average rating given at the end of the season. So for those people who generally rate more negatively than others it brings their own score down in balanced accordance.

Can't remember if I suggested it before, but I've thought it should be that way for a while - there's currently no down-side* to just rating everyone with 0's and giving yourself a better chance of being above them at the end of the season. Especially with it all being completely anonymous (bar perhaps Mike, if the rating data is stored in plain text).

*besides the morals involved.

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Knocked up a quick spreadsheet (forgive the colouring system!)...

The top table just shows some example ratings given out and received by each of the 4 people in this imaginary league, as well as averages for each person and an overall average score given out. Note that player 1 gives out relatively low ratings, 2 and 3 are average, and 4 is high.

The second table shows how these ratingw would be interpreted in the current system and shows the relative positions each player was rated by their opposition.

peer_ratings.png

As the second table shows, player 1 is at the top of the ratings table and would get to pick the best team despite being the lowest rated player by everyone in the league.

Clearly that shouldn't be happening. In the third table I attempted to fix the order by multiplying each person's rating by a percentage of their ratings given out of the overall average. Thus people who rate others relatively low will have their own rating reduced and people who rate above the average level will have their own rating raised to bring everyone to a (generally) more level playing field.

I'm sure it's not the only way to 'fix' it, and there are probably better ways of re-ordering the table, this system using the percentages was just the most basic which seems to work.

The problem isn't as pronounced in the real leagues, as you wouldn't see someone who deserves to be bottom shooting up to the top with 12 people voting, but they'd easily be able to make up a few positions by rating everyone else down I'd imagine.

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What if I am in a league full of cunts who turn up late, dont post match reports, whinge all game down the mic and hack me down when I am through on goal....

Why should I be punished for rating Sean down accordingly?

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Why should I be punished for rating Sean down accordingly?

Not sure if you were raising a genuine concern at the same time as making that joke, but you wouldn't be punished, you'd just not gain an advantage on everyone else.

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The rating system means nothing now that if you are in a higher league but are poorly rated and get relegated you'll still be the top of the picking list. I was told the Premiership players deserve this concession for "all the effort they put in to be in the top league". I'm sorry but that seems a little like someone struggling to climb the tricky north face of Cunt Mountain only to reach the summit and to look down to survey the impressive view of Nobody Cares.

It's like it's us lower league guys fault that everyone in the Prem takes things a little too seriously and rate each other poorly.

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peer_ratings.png

As the second table shows, player 1 is at the top of the ratings table and would get to pick the best team despite being the lowest rated player by everyone in the league.

I might be doing it wrong, but isn's he the highest rated in that league? You mean he gave the lowest ratings, right?

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I've come up with a new system that'll suit everyone: Random picks, except for Sean and Sith who pick last. The order for them two is decided with a bare knuckle fight, filmed and broadcast live on rllmukfootballleague.co.uk.

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I might be doing it wrong, but isn's he the highest rated in that league? You mean he gave the lowest ratings, right?

He got the highest ratings using the current system of just averaging them all out, yeah (5.67).

But if you look at the actual ratings given by the other 3 people individually (shown more clearly in the second table), they all rated him the lowest out of every other player. He was only the highest rated overall due to his own negative ratings of everyone else.

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Ah, I was doing it wrong.

It's an interesting solution. As someone who generally comes bottom of the pile - and yet is clearly one of the most beloved members of the league, right guys? - I've often wondered if I'm losing at least a couple of places down to being more generous than everyone else, which inevitably leads to a kind of pseudo-tactical voting.

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Much like the pos/neg system, the rating system can be abused by people who are not actually rating what the system intended. The tool/norm ratio does seem higher in the prem though. Go figure.

I've already started the process for a change so that the effect of the ratings on team selection are reduced from next season.

ps. I'm not quite sure what Gus is on about!

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Much like the pos/neg system, the rating system can be abused by people who are not actually rating what the system intended.

Still though, even if everyone was being 100% fair in their assessment of the opposition, people will still have different views on what makes a 'good' or 'ok' contribution to the dressing room for example.

When that happens those who give the generally higher than average ratings are currently disadvantaged.

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ps. I'm not quite sure what Gus is on about!

In the last close season there was a hasty change to the way peer ratings worked if you'd dropped a league.

I know everything is done through a steering group but as a decision it was nonsense. It seemed to be made under a premise that statistically people in the Prem rated each other quite low. That's no-ones fault but them and the other players in their league. Why should they ensure a better pick in the next season if they have been poor enough to be relegated along with a poor rating?

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I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of how it affected things. I think pretty much everyone agreed that it was a fairer setup than the previous one. The annoyance from a couple of people was with the timing as I recall.

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It was rushed through so quickly that no one really got any chance to say anything on it.

It was a horrendous decision any way you look at it.

People in the Premier League rate each other lower than other leagues and always have done because they are competative cocks, everyone below must still pick behind them. Just because.

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If it had been discussed in any sort of depth across the leagues (if I've missed it then feel free to link to it) fair enough but it seemed to be something rushed through after most had paid their fees and the leagues were set out. From what I read it just seemed to be a decision that was based on "statistically the Premiership players rate each other lower than other leagues".

Boo fucking hoo.

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I'm pretty sure it was the championship rating that much higher than other leagues, rather than the prem rating lower, that highlighted the issue of the ratings being less than comparable when players moved league.

In the steering group discussion on the subject I don't recall any feeling of 'protecting the prem'.

edit: looking back at the data, it was league one which rated highest, followed by the champ, league two then the prem and the conf.

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