Arcade Talk

[Rev]

Surely these places aren't making more money on fruit machines? Do they draw people in? I'm guessing they must do.

Sorry, we all know arcade gaming is dead but this really depressed me a great deal.

I think it is just cost. Eg:

http://www.libertygames.co.uk/store/video_arcade_machines/

House of the Dead 2 for £2k. Afterburner Climax for £4800. Guitar Hero Arcade for £9200.

Whereas:

http://www.fruitmachineworld.com/machines-from-120-8-c.asp

The most expensive (second-hand) fruit machine is £265. Most are £120.

Outfitting an arcade with modern (which is usually synonymous with "cack") videogames would cost a fortune. Sure, you'd probably rent rather than buy but even so I just can't see investing any money apart from running repairs being feasible. So you get what they've got, until they break too much and then they'll be gone forever.

[Asura]

It's strange really - because the arcade business, in theory, is one of the best businesses EVER. You're asking people, essentially, to turn up at your premises and put money into buckets, which you unlock and and collect together late at night - all for the cost of electricity and a couple of staff. There's no product to order in, it's footloose...

This is what makes me think that it must be practically impossible to make money doing it - because on the surface, it's such a good business opportunity that EVERYONE would be doing it if it made money.

[Oh Danny Boy]

It's strange really - because the arcade business, in theory, is one of the best businesses EVER. You're asking people, essentially, to turn up at your premises and put money into buckets, which you unlock and and collect together late at night - all for the cost of electricity and a couple of staff. There's no product to order in, it's footloose...

This is what makes me think that it must be practically impossible to make money doing it - because on the surface, it's such a good business opportunity that EVERYONE would be doing it if it made money.

everyone did, did't they? i know where i lived in east London during the 90's nearly every cornershop had a jamma arcade machine or two. Then came the turn of the 21st century and they all became replaced by PC's hosting £1 an hour internet access

I guess when you have a huge space of just machines maintenance must be the main drain. Arcades probably got a fair share of vandalism.

[Vimster]

Outfitting an arcade with modern (which is usually synonymous with "cack") videogames would cost a fortune. Sure, you'd probably rent rather than buy but even so I just can't see investing any money apart from running repairs being feasible. So you get what they've got, until they break too much and then they'll be gone forever.

I'm having difficulty understanding why Guitar Hero Arcade is so bloody expensive. It's not even that good a version of GH, even Expert is easy. What annoys me most about it is, if it had come out 20 years ago, it would have let you play another song if you'd got more than 95%, but hey it's all about the experience now, right?

Generally though there must be a gap in the market for a company that hires out and maintains older machines, maybe not yer Galaxians or yer Robotrons (although I'd be on that all day if they had one), but late-80s/90s games. If an operator was confident that the machines would be kept working you'd hope they would go for it.

It's the lack of vision in commercial arcades that makes me appreciate The Arcade Barn even more. A shame more people around the country aren't doing similar things.

[X_2_0]

I was always disappointed that First Person Shooters never took off in arcades, back when PCs had a big graphical advantage over home consoles still.

If some one had come up with a generic cab that simplified controls, maybe foot pedals to move forward and back, a twisty knob to turn and a joystick to aim. Add in some simple network play, update the games every six months or so.

It might have worked, or at least had wider appeal than internet cafe gaming.

[Not Thread Owner]

I was in Cromer last month and it was the same. Fruit machines, slidy 2p machines and crane machines. *Really* depressing.

The long thin arcade behind the petrol station stole all my 10ps one summer as I raped the Ramparts machine.

And the one at the bottom of the cliff used to swallow my Pang money.

[super_quincy]

I was always disappointed that First Person Shooters never took off in arcades, back when PCs had a big graphical advantage over home consoles still.

If some one had come up with a generic cab that simplified controls, maybe foot pedals to move forward and back, a twisty knob to turn and a joystick to aim. Add in some simple network play, update the games every six months or so.

It might have worked, or at least had wider appeal than internet cafe gaming.

I think they tried with this

[bradigor]

Southend isn't in too bad a shape, has a decent mix of gimmicky, retro, pinball etc. Will grab some photos next time I am in town.

[MikeBeaver]

That place looks amazing. Check out the video on the website. I am gonna have to go. Forum meet?

Well, I am pretty close by, so count me in, have you started a thread in the "meets" section?

Mike..

[Dandy_Sephy]

Another view on this has occurred to me, thanks largely to thinking about the local area.

I think that the change in population diversity coupled with the state of towns that used to have the attraction of arcades is responsible for a large share of the decline. The arcades are usually associated with seaside towns for the simple reason that most of them happened to be there. Yes you'd have the odd jamma cab in a chippy and such, but the large congregation of machines were almost always in seaside towns. Therefore they had big business for 6 months of the year due to the tourist trade, and the rest of the time could survive on local custom. Now the tourist trade isn't so great as more and more people go overseas for holidays.

Certainly in Kent the typical places for arcades in the day like Herne Bay and Margate have changed a lot in the years since. Herne Bay is chav city, and Margate has practically been a ghost town for over a decade. I've not been to Margate in quite some time but when I looked in one "arcade" in Herne Bay a couple of years ago, it was split into two halfs (by a wall and separate doors), one is fruit machines, the other is cabinets. All the shooting and driving stuff at the front was busy, the classics at the back were not being used - although they were running. Given the local population, I doubt there is any business sense in operating anything other than "gimmick" cabinets, the consumer interest is unproven and they can't operate on a few people wanting to relive their childhood. On the other hand, Outrun 2 and other gimmick cabs released after are still popular and it's keeping a few people in business just servicing them and supplying spares for those and older Sega cabs. So much that Sega have had to create, and buy in new hardware to keep those machines running now that the original parts are no longer produced (solid state storage instead of GD-ROMS and retro fit LCD's instead of CRT's)

Also, people seem to forget that arcades were usually full of gambling machines and pool tables in addition to the classic games of the day, so them being full of fruit machines now isn't that surprising.

[Vimster]

Also, people seem to forget that arcades were usually full of gambling machines and pool tables in addition to the classic games of the day, so them being full of fruit machines now isn't that surprising.

Back in the day you'd have, say, 70% cabs with the rest being fruit machines and the like. Now this has turned on its head with the cabs being the gimmicky sort.

The nostalgia factor, by all accounts, doesn't account for much. It's easy for me to think everyone fancies a few goes on an old machine for 20p a go, but it sounds like most people don't give a toss.

And "hardcore" machines like fighters, you'd never see those in an arcade now. Even the people brought up on SFII wouldn't want to touch them, by all accounts

[George Clooney]

Another view on this has occurred to me, thanks largely to thinking about the local area.

I think that the change in population diversity coupled with the state of towns that used to have the attraction of arcades is responsible for a large share of the decline. The arcades are usually associated with seaside towns for the simple reason that most of them happened to be there. Yes you'd have the odd jamma cab in a chippy and such, but the large congregation of machines were almost always in seaside towns. Therefore they had big business for 6 months of the year due to the tourist trade, and the rest of the time could survive on local custom. Now the tourist trade isn't so great as more and more people go overseas for holidays.

Certainly in Kent the typical places for arcades in the day like Herne Bay and Margate have changed a lot in the years since. Herne Bay is chav city, and Margate has practically been a ghost town for over a decade. I've not been to Margate in quite some time but when I looked in one "arcade" in Herne Bay a couple of years ago, it was split into two halfs (by a wall and separate doors), one is fruit machines, the other is cabinets. All the shooting and driving stuff at the front was busy, the classics at the back were not being used - although they were running. Given the local population, I doubt there is any business sense in operating anything other than "gimmick" cabinets, the consumer interest is unproven and they can't operate on a few people wanting to relive their childhood. On the other hand, Outrun 2 and other gimmick cabs released after are still popular and it's keeping a few people in business just servicing them and supplying spares for those and older Sega cabs. So much that Sega have had to create, and buy in new hardware to keep those machines running now that the original parts are no longer produced (solid state storage instead of GD-ROMS and retro fit LCD's instead of CRT's)

Also, people seem to forget that arcades were usually full of gambling machines and pool tables in addition to the classic games of the day, so them being full of fruit machines now isn't that surprising.

Agree and disagree. While seaside towns certainly had a larger proportion of arcade machines than other places, they used to be far more abundant in other places. Just by where I live (Stoke on Trent) there used to be quite a few options in town to get some decent arcade action. Yes, these were places that generally had mostly fruit machines, but they always had a decent section of arcade machines, and not just gimmick machines, but proper stand up cabs with joysticks. Then there are the typical venues that would have machines put in for people while they wait about - like cinemas and bowling alleys. My local odeon used to have a wall lined with stand up cabs with stuff like the Aliens side scrolling shooter and the Turtles arcade game. Whats more, these places used to update their games to new ones, and even advertise that they had them. The local Quasar used to have an ad parked by the cinema next door saying they'd just had MK2 in when it was released, and another arcade quite proudly advertised they were the only one in the area with Killer Instinct when that came out. Now, most the stand up cabs have gone, replaced by either fruit machines or light gun/driving games. The games left are generally old. The only place which really gets new games any more is the bowling alley. The cinema has gone from about 15 machines to about 4.

I remember ages ago there was an arcade that used to have a wall of machines like final fight, shadow dancer and golden axe. Its all fruit machines now. I used to go there a lot as it was the closest, but all the games seemed devilishly hard. I ended up getting into a conversation with a guy that worked there about it, and he said the owner set the games to their most difficult with the logic of the shorter people played, the more money people would spend to keep playing. Of course the counter was, if its too hard people may get put off, and that really you need to find the sweet spot so people would come back, but not spend all day with 1 credit. The point being thought that most arcade owners near me only thought about it in terms of business. Which is natural. But sometimes I think we go into somewhere and think "man the games here suck, this place sucks" as gamers, while the owners are thinking "man these money makers are sweet, I rule". They dont care that their collection of games isnt great, because the truth is, if we made an arcade with all the games we wanted in, it probably wouldnt make a lot of money. The guy I mentioned at the start of the paragraph got rid of his games for fruit machines apparently because to replace with "up to date" at the time games wouldnt have brought in as much money as fruit machines would.

In a way I can understand the last place I mentioned, because we went to arcades to play games we couldnt get at home. Once the Playstation era started kicking in, the main thing it could offer was novelty controls. Costs for machines went up, but demand didnt really. While it used to be that you'd get big arcade releases that got looked forward too, they kind of stopped happening. Stuff like Killer Instinct. Then, certain genres pretty much stopped altogether, because it just made more sense to develop them for consoles, like platform games.

Its a shame really, because I have really fond memories of arcades. Finding a new machine in an arcade, going somewhere new and checking out what they have. You cant really do that any more. Last time I went the Trocadero in London, the arcade there seemed to be floor after floor of the same machines again and again. Blackpool was the same a while ago - I think every arcade had House of the Dead 4 and maybe a couple of others. Its a shame but as we've come along in terms of gaming at home, its pushed arcade gaming to the point where its not really financially viable for a lot of games. Pretty much all theres room for their now is driving, shooting or beat em up games. And the odd other one that relies on a gimmick controller.

[Gabe]

Another reason is surely that you can have £5 jackpot fruit machines open to all now (not regulated like the £35/£70 machines), so you find them popping up where a cab may have been previously.

[Nick_L]

Went to 1up at lunch on Thursday, took some pics (sorry for the crap quality, takes on my BlackBerry and the light isnt great in there)

Entrance

Pac-Man, Centipede, Dig Dug, Tron, Arkanoid, Burger Time, Donkey Kong, Paperboy, Galaga, Tempest, Ms Pac Man, Punch Out

Star Wars, Frogger, 1942, Tracn and Field, Q-Bert, Joust

Gyruss, DK Junior, Ikari Warriors, Moon Patrol

Didn;t take any of the fighters, Pins of cabs on the other side, they have just added a Tapper and Killer Instinct 2

[Asura]

Where's that?

[Nick_L]

Denver, USA

Bit far for a meet sadly

[wev]

There's even someone who looks like they're from the 80's there!

[Goose]

Not quite related to this thread but we went to Hollywood Bowl in Wolverhampton yesterday and they had an odd array of arcade machine. A Terminator Salvation machine (dull), Sega Rally 3, some odd motorbike game in which you could drive through shops and such like, Time Crisis 4 and some really weird Pirate game by Namco, which was sort of House of the Dead on a ship - something like Deadman's Voyage. Played poorly, with the guns having next to no impact on the amount of things on screen (numbering in their twenties). But what really surprised me was the fact that while it was telling us how to play, there was a big LOADING thing in the corner! Arcade game shouldn't load, they should just be ready!

[roberthazelby]

This thread makes me think we should organise another visit to the Arcade Barn.

[sega_kid]

I went to florida last month on my honeymoon, and from what i saw the arcade scene over there is still going strong.

DisneyQuest was nothing short of amazing- its basically just like Segaworld was in the Trocadero, but "disneyfied" ie it was about 5 or six floors full of arcade cabs, each level was themed ie racers, retro shooting etc and each level had one "big" attraction, stuff like a build your own virtual coaster and ride sim, bumper cars that shoot foam balls at each other and so on. it really was a carbon copy of Segaworld, except it was free to get in if you had one of the Disney passes, and every machine was freeplay, except for the ufo catchers and such. Even better, one whole floor was dedicated to retro, rows and rows of original cabs all fully working and clean all the big hitters i can think of were there. the other levels all consisted of current games, i finally got to play Sega Race Tv, which id hat yet to see in a arcade.

We also went to place called Fun spot on international drive, kind of a low scale theme park with go kart tracks and water rides. they also had a arcade full of old cabs all on freeplay, stuff like the old house of the deads and time crisis games, aswell as various 90s beat em ups etc.

2 other places i didnt get to see were the King of Kong arcade at the airport, and Dave & Busters, which is basically a restaurant and arcade in one, im hoping to check these places out whenever i get to go over again.

[Vimster]

Puts Weston to shame

If the Grand Pier charged, say, £10 to play all day in a decent arcade, and only charged for food and grabbers, I'd go for that, as long as there were enough decent machines. It would keep people there longer and they'd probably make more money in the long run. I can't imagine most people I saw there spending £10 on games all day.

But as Escape says, it looks like the owners aren't really interested in making a go-to arcade venue in the south-west - shame.

[Sabreman]

Urgh... my heart literally skipped a beat when I saw the photos from 1up, then Asura asking where it was. I was totally ready to get on a train

[Nick_L]

They have a 6-player X-Men in there now

[Vimster]

B's was much better in the '90s, though. At one point they had so much quality they kept Street Fighter II at the back. Initially, I thought they'd put it there to keep the chavs back at the dark end, but when the Virtuas and Tekkens arrived they were given prime positions in the centre. Daytona was their main sit-in for quite a while; don't recall Sega Rally. McCree 2 did good business at the door. (Yeah, I'm guilty!)

Well remember the sit-down Daytona. One place there (I forget which) has a full Ridge Racer with car and huge screen. Was that the place with all the pinball tables down the one side?

[ilpostino]

2 other places i didnt get to see were the King of Kong arcade at the airport, and Dave & Busters, which is basically a restaurant and arcade in one, im hoping to check these places out whenever i get to go over again.

Dave and Busters are pretty good. Good machines, all in working order and the money/ticket grabber machines are all punted off to one side. 8 Player Daytona is always fun!

[Vimster]

Just got back from a couple of days with the gf in Weston. They've changed the pier about, but not much. Fruit Ninja ticket spewer was okay. Mario Kart gave me a free go.

We had a load of tickets out of the Fruit Ninja machine, about 184, and all we got was a keyring, a couple of lollies and two little rubber balls. They had a King Pig from Angry Birds on the shelf in the shop. My other half asked how many tickets you'd need to get it and was told 10,000! We worked out you'd have to put the best part of £300 into ticket spwers to get that.

[Dandy_Sephy]

You could buy that for about £20-40! (depending on size)

[Vimster]

You could buy that for about £20-40! (depending on size)

Exactly. It's ridiculous.

[Ste_S]

This thread is resurrecting many fond memories of arcades in London in the 90's. Namco place opposite Angel tube, Oxford Street Arcade close to Tottenham Court road, Trocadero and Namco station amongst many others. Chiefly though, watching all the hardcore SF, Tekken and VF players in the basement of the arcade on Tottenham Court Road; and bizarrely the arcade in Elephant and Castle shopping centre. Spent many a lunch break playing Scud Race there !

[Duckula]

Was thinking about checking out the Namco Station next week when I'm in London now that Funland has closed down. Is it any good?