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Nintendos future


Silent Runner
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BTW - to quote NCL President Satoru Iwata: "When we withdraw from the home game console, that's when we withdraw from the video game business."

See, I was sure someone said it, but couldn't remember if it was him or Yamuchi. And I couldn't be buggered finding the article.

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I don't know why to keep making consoles you must win the console war, because surely as long as nintendo are making profit at what they are doing they'll keep doing it. Take apple computers for example, they have a small what is it 2%? or less share of the market, by this logic they should give up, but they're slowly increasing their market and constantly bringing in cash. The world is a big enought place, you see, to support them. So if nintendo is making money from making consoles there is no reason for them to stop. What they'd be best doing is keep catering and nurturing for their market and exploring more avenues to widen it in different ways and leave sony and microsoft to do their thing. After all it would be boring if all the consoles were about was providing exactly the same thing but with a different badge.

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while MS makes huge losses (the legality of which I still question as the rest of MS funds the economically failing XBox).

?? what legality??

Well, if MS put all their $40Billion or whatever into subsidising XBoxes then I'm sure the EU trade Commission and the US equivalent would have something to say about its anti-competitive behaviour. What MS is doing now is exactly the same just to a lesser extent. They're using cash from a wholly separate sector (software licensing) to fund thier expensive games hardware to keep it competative. This is a bit unfair on Nintendo surely? If the MS games Division had to make ends meet on its own like Nintendo do, I wonder how expensive the XBox hardware would have to be, and how successful it would have been at that price.

Basically, The GC's success is due solely to Nintendo making good games hardware and software, while the XBox's success is only partly due to how good their hardware and software has been, the other part being how good they are at collecting license money. This is anti-competitive, so borderline illegal as far as I'm concerned.

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Yes, because Project Gotham 2 and the other online games on PS2 and Xbox have been flying off the shelves!

Nope, but the salesman says:

"For £50 more you get DVD playback, online play, Dolby Digital sound, all these games that aren't getting released on GC etc. etc." and folk buy that console instead of the GC.

;) £50 quid more... + 20 quid to unlock the dvd playback.. plus 40 quid for the modem and subscriptioon to Live!

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In Britain maybe - but over here in the US things are much different. GC is the #1 selling console off the back off the price cut and the fact that both PS2 and Xbox don't have any real "big name" Xmas games (perhaps PS2 with FFX-2). Add into this Nintendo's good name with parents (the GBA) means alot of kids (like my girlfriends nephew) will be getting a Gamecube for Xmas

Hmm. Not sure about this, myself. There was a spike directly after the price cut, but as far as I can see the GC is dead on its arse in the states. If it's lucky it gets about a sixth the shelf space either of the other two do in the big game stores, including Target, and many Blockbusters have stopped carrying GC games altogether in the last year.

The price cut will do some good, but I can't help but feel the damage has already been done.

we don't even have a games chart over here!

Not true. NPD compile a monthly industry sales chart although I can't remember the last time I saw a GC game in the all format top ten for longer than a week. Probably Wind Waker. There were two GC games in the most recent one I've got (July) (Mario Golf and Wind Waker at 12 and 18 respectively), eight PS2 and two X-box titles (at #2 and #3). The GBA makes the rest of the numbers up, which is pretty impressive. I would imagine MKDD would be the only new title that would make it into a more recent chart. I'll be very interested to see what happens in December though.

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Here's what I think: Nintendo are fucked in the console business.

You think wrong. Sega was fucked in the console business, but how many more GCs have sold than DCs? From the figures I've seen the GC sold more two weeks ago than the DC on it's launch date. Nintendo is making a profit and has somelike like 9 billion dollars of cash reserve in the bank. If you're talking about them being "fucked" from a profit/loss standpoint then the Xbox is far more fucked as MS are losing money hand over fist on it. Plus as others have pointed out, Sony are in the shit financially at the moment.

Latest reports suggest 5 billion buddy, and Nintendo suffered their first ever loss last quarter. Software sales this year are down from last year (all round the board) and $99 GCs are going to cut into Nintendo's margins.

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Sure, there's load of shit being released. But the quote:

"Online video games have been a false start so far. The current path taken by game developers toward more cinematic graphics, richer story lines and complicated controls is a blind alley that will only worsen the current 'nothing's new' ennui felt by many consumers."

sounds pedantic and misguided to me.

But on-line games aren't popular. At best something like 3% of PS2 owners will be on-line with their console and something like 5% of Xbox owners. So at least 95% of all games bought are bought because of off-line gaming. An extremely high proportion of console gamers don't have credit cards either remember.

Now for forum members, the on-line content may be extremely important but we are not 95% of the games market.

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Latest reports suggest 5 billion buddy, and Nintendo suffered their first ever loss last quarter. Software sales this year are down from last year (all round the board) and $99 GCs are going to cut into Nintendo's margins.

Nintendo only suffered such a loss because of the fluctuating yen at the time. They will round out this financial year in profit. The currency issue hit everyone in the technology sector just as bad. It hit Sony even worse, but of course it's not sensationalist enough to talk about that...

And $99 GC's? You do realise it costs something like £30 to make a GameCube?

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we don't even have a games chart over here!

Not true. NPD compile a monthly industry sales chart although I can't remember the last time I saw a GC game in the all format top ten for longer than a week.

Yes - of course there are industry charts - but I meant one that us little members of the public can check out each week.

Hmm.  Not sure about this, myself.  There was a spike directly after the price cut, but as far as I can see the GC is dead on its arse in the states.  If it's lucky it gets about a sixth the shelf space either of the other two do in the big game stores, including Target, and many Blockbusters have stopped carrying GC games altogether in the last year.

This is pure and utter bollocks. I've been to Target and a Gamespot and Hollywood Video in the last 3 days and this isn't the case. Xbox and GC have equal space. As for Blockbuster stopping carrying GC games - I have no idea as I never set foot in them - so can't say.

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Yes - of course there are industry charts - but I meant one that us little members of the public can check out each week.

Aye, it's carried in a good number of the US Games mags.

This is pure and utter bollocks. I've been to Target and a Gamespot and Hollywood Video in the last 3 days and this isn't the case. Xbox and GC have equal space. As for Blockbuster stopping carrying GC games - I have no idea as I never set foot in them - so can't say.

You must live in a GC heavy area then ;)

Certainly in California and New York States, the major retailers have reduced the amount of space they allocate to the cube in the last twelve months. PS2 takes priority, then the X-Box, then the GC. Check out the point of sale stuff next time you're there. It's all for the first two, with the exception of MKDD.

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Certainly in California and New York States, the major retailers have reduced the amount of space they allocate to the cube in the last twelve months. PS2 takes priority, then the X-Box, then the GC. Check out the point of sale stuff next time you're there. It's all for the first two, with the exception of MKDD.

Well I don't know how to answer this. Perhaps you'd like me to walk down to Target and photograph the games section which is 5 cabinets, 2 PS2 (well 1 3/4 and 1/4 N-Gage), 1 GBA, 1 GC and 1 Xbox? I've lived in California for the last 4 years and just don't see what you're seeing. If anything I've noticed that the cube stuff is taking a larger amount of the store recently.

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Yes - of course there are industry charts - but I meant one that us little members of the public can check out each week.

Aye, it's carried in a good number of the US Games mags.

Fair enough. I don't read print mags. Certainly weekly sales charts are not available online, or if they are I'd be very interested in being pointed towards them.

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Well I don't know how to answer this. Perhaps you'd like me to walk down to Target and photograph the games section which is 5 cabinets, 2 PS2 (well 1 3/4 and 1/4 N-Gage), 1 GBA, 1 GC and 1 Xbox?

Heh. No, I'm not saying I don't believe you, but it's certainly not the norm any more. Anyhow, I hope you're right that the price cut revives its fortunes, but I'm not overly hopeful. Target are the most important retailer obviously enough, but after them the likes of Gamestop (and co) and Best Buy have also been reducing the GC stuff they stock. There was talk of Walmart dropping it altogether too, if I recall. That's not to say there aren't stores that give it different amounts of space based on regional demand, but the charts over the last year tell their own story.

Out of interest: where in CA do you live?

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Thing is, isn't Nintendo, first and foremost, a games publisher, and they make hardware as a means to this end. As opposed to Sony and Microsoft, who are more focussed on the hardware side of things. In this way they are more like Sega, and I guess the question is whether they'd be more successful (as a publisher) just acting as a third party publisher as opposed to being a platform holder. It doesn't seem to have been successful for Sega, and I'm pretty sure that Sega didn't just go "actually it would be loads better if we didn't have to make hardware any more". They were forced into it because they couldn't afford it any more.

According to these:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page....me=pub&aid=1908

http://www.gamespot.com/all/news/news_6083951.html

Nintendo's doing pretty well as a publisher at the moment. I'm not sure it would do as well without having it's own platform. I imagine a large proportion of the figures come from the GBA rather than the Gamecube, but when you're that successful why would you throw away a platform that makes you money?

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Basically, The GC's success is due solely to Nintendo making good games hardware and software, while the XBox's success is only partly due to how good their hardware and software has been, the other part being how good they are at collecting license money. This is anti-competitive, so borderline illegal as far as I'm concerned.

It always makes me wonder why people moan about MS subsidising the Xbox with cash from other parts of the company, while nobody says anything about the cash from Sony's Computer Entertainment division keeping the entire company subsidised. (double standards people)

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It always makes me wonder why people moan about MS subsidising the Xbox with cash from other parts of the company, while nobody says anything about the cash from Sony's Computer Entertainment division keeping the entire company subsidised. (double standards people)

Not at all. They're both shady as fuck.

;)

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It always makes me wonder why people moan about MS subsidising the Xbox with cash from other parts of the company, while nobody says anything about the cash from Sony's Computer Entertainment division keeping the entire company subsidised. (double standards people)

What about 90 years of playing card manufacturing subsidising the NES? Atari must have been furious! ;)

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I'm bored with this perennial subject. It always appears to me that a lot of Xbox owners wish failure on the GC. I certainly don't wish failure on any of the consoles and want them all to thrive.

Whatever else that you can say about the GC and Nintendo, their system unique games have by and large looked to be different from those on the PS2 and Xbox. The games I admit are often updates of franchises but the franchises themselves are relatively uncopyable by the other formats. Equally Sega's and Capcom's GC contributions have been different too.

These traits make the Gamecube to me a really lovable machine regardless of the mass market and their need for rally driving, space marine, WWII FPS and movie tie in type games (most of which perversely are also on the GC and available at a lower hardware cost).

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Hmm. Not sure about this, myself. There was a spike directly after the price cut, but as far as I can see the GC is dead on its arse in the states.

Rubbish. Here is a quote directly from the recent Nintendo Press Release:

REDMOND, Wash., Dec. 2, 2003 – After rocketing up the charts the past several weeks, the Nintendo GameCube™ has now reached No. 1 – it's America's top-selling home video game console, according to direct sales data from the nation's leading retailers. Nintendo GameCube sold more than half a million systems to consumers during Thanksgiving week, easily surpassing its console competitors. Among all game devices, it trailed only Nintendo's portable Game Boy® Advance, which sold almost 600,000 units to U.S. buyers during the week.

Now obviously it won't hold that #1 position too long as the PS2 will slam it out of thw way, but it sure proves that the console isn't "dead on its arse".

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Basically, The GC's success is due solely to Nintendo making good games hardware and software, while the XBox's success is only partly due to how good their hardware and software has been, the other part being how good they are at collecting license money.  This is anti-competitive, so borderline illegal as far as I'm concerned.

It always makes me wonder why people moan about MS subsidising the Xbox with cash from other parts of the company, while nobody says anything about the cash from Sony's Computer Entertainment division keeping the entire company subsidised. (double standards people)

I was under the impression that most of Sony's profits are from its games division, but I don't see how the games division can 'keep the entire company subsidised'. The rest of the company is huge and the profits from games really aren't enough to fund all the other divisions' losses, just make the overall profit look better.

Anyway, people don't have a go at Sony the way they do at MS because Sony Games have obviously deserved their profit because they made a good console with good games. They're not funding an overly costly machine with money from the rest of the company.

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Rubbish. Here is a quote directly from the recent Nintendo Press Release: <snip>

Selling well during a certain period is all very well, but there's no escaping the fact that the other two consoles shift a shitload more games than it in the US.

As I said, a price cut it bound to cause a spike in sales. Look again in three months time, and see where it's at.

Don't get me wrong, it's my favourite machine by a long way. But unless something pretty spectacular happens on the software front, it's dead on its arse.

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Nintendo suffered their first ever loss last quarter.

Amusingly, this loss was incurred because of their dealings on the international currency market, and was nothing to do with their console business. But it get trooped out evey time someone wants an argument about how the Gamecube's failing.

I agree with most people here - the GC's games are *different* in some ways to those available on the PS2 and Xbox. People should have one of the latter, and a Gamecube.

Tim ™

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It always makes me wonder why people moan about MS subsidising the Xbox with cash from other parts of the company, while nobody says anything about the cash from Sony's Computer Entertainment division keeping the entire company subsidised. (double standards people)

What about 90 years of playing card manufacturing subsidising the NES? Atari must have been furious! :)

They very well may of been. Hardly has any baring on what I was saying though does it.

;)

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Selling well during a certain period is all very well, but there's no escaping the fact that the other two consoles shift a shitload more games than it in the US.

That's not true though. Xbox and GC sell roughly equal amounts of software units (of course, PS2 is way ahead).

From Nintendo's point of view though, a high percentage of the GC games sold are their own games meaning bumper profits for them. A much, much higher percentage of games sold on Xbox (and PS2) are 3rd party games that pull in less profit for Microsoft.

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Nintendo suffered their first ever loss last quarter.

Amusingly, this loss was incurred because of their dealings on the international currency market, and was nothing to do with their console business. But it get trooped out evey time someone wants an argument about how the Gamecube's failing.

I agree with most people here - the GC's games are *different* in some ways to those available on the PS2 and Xbox. People should have one of the latter, and a Gamecube.

Tim

Here bloody here.

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That's not true though. Xbox and GC sell roughly equal amounts of software units (of course, PS2 is way ahead).

I'd have to question that. It may have been true six months or a year ago, but the X-box has surged in the US since Live took off. Just take a look at the charts.

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That's not true though. Xbox and GC sell roughly equal amounts of software units (of course, PS2 is way ahead).

I'd have to question that. It may have been true six months or a year ago, but the X-box has surged in the US since Live took off. Just take a look at the charts.

Can you put up some proof (can't get access to gaming sites at work)? The site I'm thinking about puts up the top 10 games sold for the month on each console. If you add up the totals for Xbox and GC they come to roughly the same (within the statistical error).

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