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Nintendos future


Silent Runner
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You're not allowed to sell at a loss, are you? ;)

You are allowed to sell at a loss. There is a thing called 'dumping' though, IIRC, which means something along the lines of "you're not allowed to sell at a loss, the sole purpose of which is putting your competitors out of business" or something.

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You're not allowed to sell at a loss, are you? ;)

Indeed you're not. Before that was introduced, there's be shops competing with wach other, where one shop would sell a tin of baked beans for a penny, thinking it couldn't be beaten, and then the competing shop would sell 2 tins for a penny.

I've often thought about that myself, about consoles.

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It's kind of touching to see how the fanboys reunite again to fight against the evil misinformed media. Whether it's one article or a hundred, they'll bravely discredit any source or drag in some non-relevant issues to make sure their beloved, holy company is put in the best light possible.

"The worst piece of journalism EVAR!!!!1111"

I think I trust Time Warner more than Nintendo Power, but maybe that's just me.

Well done guys.

"Online video games have been a false start so far. The current path taken by game developers toward more cinematic graphics, richer story lines and complicated controls is a blind alley that will only worsen the current 'nothing's new' ennui felt by many consumers."

I guess the sales tell a different story.

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On the on-line thing, I did it all with Quake and Counterstrike 5 or so years ago. I went loopy about it for 18 months and then went back to games with stories, imagination and in the same room multiplayer. On-line games are often about racing or shooting in arenas with strangers some of whom take their gaming skills to supremely anal levels at the expense of everyone else's fun. On-line will be better than this but not on a pay-as-you go basis because a huge part of console gaming is carried out by people unable to pay directly themselves.

Nintendo have talked about free on-line gaming and if they came out with that, but linked to extremely good stand alone single player experiences, they might be able to fund one with the other. MS on the other hand need on-line gaming to pay.

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Nintendo have talked about free on-line gaming and if they came out with that, but linked to extremely good stand alone single player experiences, they might be able to fund one with the other. MS on the other hand need on-line gaming to pay.

Eh? I don't get that at all.

For your other point, don't the new online console services try to have some kind of skill status, so you don't end up in games with elite uber-gamers?

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"Online video games have been a false start so far. The current path taken by game developers toward more cinematic graphics, richer story lines and complicated controls is a blind alley that will only worsen the current 'nothing's new' ennui felt by many consumers."

I guess the sales tell a different story.

Yes, because Project Gotham 2 and the other online games on PS2 and Xbox have been flying off the shelves!

Eyes.gif

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Wheres Linkster when you need him to defend the big N?

There does seem to be a difference between a kind of "group mentality" that Nintendo is in trouble and their actual finances. But, consumer confidence in the GC seems to be lowering all the time. The Xbox seems to have done a much better job of catching the publics imagination. Most of my non-gaming friends/collegues have heard of it - only 1 has heard of the GC.

Many of the games I have for mine are mutli-format as I like using the wavebird to play games. In fact only Zelda, Pikmin and Resi 0 currently sit in my games collection as single format for GC. So thats 3 games I can't get elsewhere that, to be honest, I could live without. I love my GC ( far more than my Ps2 ), and it has great looks, the wavebird, but not that much single-format decent software and, more importantly, not enough presence in the mind of the casual consumer. This Xmas is the time of the casual purchaser and I can see the GC still lagging behind the other two consoles in the Uk ( and possibly worldwide ).

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Yes, because Project Gotham 2 and the other online games on PS2 and Xbox have been flying off the shelves!

Nope, but the salesman says:

"For £50 more you get DVD playback, online play, Dolby Digital sound, all these games that aren't getting released on GC etc. etc." and folk buy that console instead of the GC.

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There does seem to be a difference between a kind of "group mentality" that Nintendo is in trouble and their actual finances. But, consumer confidence in the GC seems to be lowering all the time. The Xbox seems to have done a much better job of catching the publics imagination. Most of my non-gaming friends/collegues have heard of it - only 1 has heard of the GC.

In Britain maybe - but over here in the US things are much different. GC is the #1 selling console off the back off the price cut and the fact that both PS2 and Xbox don't have any real "big name" Xmas games (perhaps PS2 with FFX-2). Add into this Nintendo's good name with parents (the GBA) means alot of kids (like my girlfriends nephew) will be getting a Gamecube for Xmas, whereas he was previously told he wouldn't have anything other than a Gameboy until he was 16(!). I was in my local Target last night and the Gamecube section was surrounded by kids telling their parents/grandparents what they wanted for Xmas. The Xbox section was going unnoticed.

As for friends/colleges. I have one friend who has an Xbox and never plays on it. He's a PC gamer at heart, and have 4 friends who have Gamecubes and 5 who have PS2s.

I'm just posting this to remind people here that alot of the Nintendo doom and gloom in this forum is highly tainted by the ultra-shit NoE and elsewhere in the world Nintendo is doing very nicely thank you.

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Wheres Linkster when you need him to defend the big N?

There does seem to be a difference between a kind of "group mentality" that Nintendo is in trouble and their actual finances. But, consumer confidence in the GC seems to be lowering all the time. The Xbox seems to have done a much better job of catching the publics imagination. Most of my non-gaming friends/collegues have heard of it - only 1 has heard of the GC.

Many of the games I have for mine are mutli-format as I like using the wavebird to play games. In fact only Zelda, Pikmin and Resi 0 currently sit in my games collection as single format for GC. So thats 3 games I can't get elsewhere that, to be honest, I could live without. I love my GC ( far more than my Ps2 ), and it has great looks, the wavebird, but not that much single-format decent software and, more importantly, not enough presence in the mind of the casual consumer. This Xmas is the time of the casual purchaser and I can see the GC still lagging behind the other two consoles in the Uk ( and possibly worldwide ).

This is pretty true really. It might be changing at the moment (because the GC is actually doing well and everything), but until recently, I'd get asked by a few people who don't know anything about games what my favourite console is, and they'll usually be really surprised when I say "Er... probably the GameCube". It seems that most people's perception of the consoles is that the PS2 is great, the XBox is better, but more expensive, and who cares about the GC?

This article is a joke though. Nintendo going multi-format would make no sense, as most of the money they make now comes from the fact that they make consoles. Third-party games still make Nintendo loads (and while the GC isn't swimming in 3rd party games, it's got a lot more than say, the N64), and their 1st and 2nd party games probably wouldn't sell as well on another console (a fact proven by Sega).

Everyone seems to think that because Sega did badly and then dropped out of hardware, then so will Nintendo, if they do badly. But to see the perfect reason for them not to drop out of hardware, just look at Sega today. Sega dropped out of hardware because there was absolutely no way they could afford it anymore. Nintendo is a long way from that situation, even if they are doing badly at the mo.

Really, if we're talking about companies dropping out of hardware, I'd expect Microsoft to do it. XBox may have sold well (compared to the GC), but it cost MS huge amounts of money to do so. I can't see them continuing with the XBox for more than 3 generations if they can't start actually turning a decent profit.

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Nintendo have talked about free on-line gaming and if they came out with that, but linked to extremely good stand alone single player experiences, they might be able to fund one with the other. MS on the other hand need on-line gaming to pay.

Eh? I don't get that at all.

It's one of those 'in it for the long haul' type things. Nintendo aren't in any great hurry to shoulder the expense of figuring out how console online gaming is going to work when they have eager rivals willing to do it for them. They know they'll be around for the next hardware generation.

In addition to this, a company based on strong, recognisable, 'universal' IP isn't going to be keen on using it in games only subscribers can play, with a potentially limited shelf-life (if SMK had had an online mode based on the technology available then, it probably wouldn't be easy -or even possible- to use it now).

It's kind of like why football is more popular than boxing.*

*possibly crap analogy

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You're not allowed to sell at a loss, are you? ;)

Yes you can. You can flog anything at any price if you want...

Sky was doing it for years before they started giving their box's away for free.

Yeh, lots of things are sold at a loss where the money can be made back elsewhere.

Digi-boxes, mobile phones, game consoles, and umm, well that's all I can think of actually.

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"Online video games have been a false start so far. The current path taken by game developers toward more cinematic graphics, richer story lines and complicated controls is a blind alley that will only worsen the current 'nothing's new' ennui felt by many consumers."

I guess the sales tell a different story.

Yes, because Project Gotham 2 and the other online games on PS2 and Xbox have been flying off the shelves!

Eyes.gif

No, but online gaming is still in it's infancy. But the games with 'cinematic graphics' and richer storylines haven't done too badly have they? Just ask the MGS series, GTA: Vice City, Splinter Cell or KOTOR to name but a few.

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No, but online gaming is still in it's infancy. But the games with 'cinematic graphics' and richer storylines haven't done too badly have they? Just ask the MGS series, GTA: Vice City, Splinter Cell or KOTOR to name but a few.

Yes, 4 games that have done very well for themselves.

What about the other 4 million pieces of shit with uber realistic graphics, exploding barrels and crates making steps up to an open window?

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No, but online gaming is still in it's infancy. But the games with 'cinematic graphics' and richer storylines haven't done too badly have they? Just ask the MGS series, GTA: Vice City, Splinter Cell or KOTOR to name but a few.

It's hardly fair to compare online gaming to a 'plot device' though, is it? Not that I'm trying to have a go or anything......

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Sure, there's load of shit being released. But the quote:

"Online video games have been a false start so far. The current path taken by game developers toward more cinematic graphics, richer story lines and complicated controls is a blind alley that will only worsen the current 'nothing's new' ennui felt by many consumers."

sounds pedantic and misguided to me.

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It doesn't matter whether the PS2s and XBoxes are used for online games, the point is that they can, and the GC (for all intents and purposes) can't. This means that people look at the consoles, and they see the GC as missing something important. The ability to hook up the GBA to the machine is still in its infancy, too, so it's hardly a compensatory feature. Ergo, the GC is selling less.

Is the GC really the top-seller in the US at the mo? I know it overtook the Xbox after Thanksgiving, but I'm still dubious that it's ahead of the PS2 in week-by-week sales.

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Is the GC really the top-seller in the US at the mo? I know it overtook the Xbox after Thanksgiving, but I'm still dubious that it's ahead of the PS2 in week-by-week sales.

It didn't just overtake the Xbox, it overtook the PS2 as well, at least for the week after Thanksgiving (when most people do their Xmas shopping in the US). Haven't seen any sales figures more recent than that however, I'm guessing we won't until the start of next year. In the US sales numbers for games/consoles are notoriously difficult to get. I mean - we don't even have a games chart over here!

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You crazy, crazy people.

You know for the longest time they didn't have a Movie chart over here either, because they were afraid that if people saw that their latest movie wasn't in the top 10, people wouldn't go see it. Of course they totally missed out on the benifits of the fact that people will go see a movie if its in the number 1 position.

I think games companies are in the same boat currently. That said try to find a music chart in the US that's not bullshit to. Most of the charts are based mainly on radio play rather than sales, and being as the radio play is paid for (indirectly to avoid breaking the law) buy the record companies, they're basically buying chart position anyway.

As Amanset would say "That's Fucked Up Shit "

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Sure, there's load of shit being released. But the quote:

"Online video games have been a false start so far. The current path taken by game developers toward more cinematic graphics, richer story lines and complicated controls is a blind alley that will only worsen the current 'nothing's new' ennui felt by many consumers."

sounds pedantic and misguided to me.

I know what you're saying, but I think Itawa's point isn't that these games aren't popular, rather that that particular market sector is over saturated, with too many "me-too" games for the customer to get excited about them all.

I think he's just justifing Nintendo's colourful graphics as an alternative or something. I don't know. The fact that Resi Evil, Eternal Darkness and MGS: Twin Snakes are all exclusives to the GC kind of goes against what he's saying slightly anyway.

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It doesn't matter whether the PS2s and XBoxes are used for online games, the point is that they can, and the GC (for all intents and purposes) can't.

I hope Ubisoft PR reps are reading this thread so they can take that down to explain away their troubles to angered shareholders.

"Sure, nobody bought XIII or Prince of Persia. But there were loads of copies on the shelves so they could have done if they'd wanted. For that alone I think we all deserve a pat on the back and a big pay rise."

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It doesn't matter whether the PS2s and XBoxes are used for online games, the point is that they can, and the GC (for all intents and purposes) can't. This means that people look at the consoles, and they see the GC as missing something important.

I hope Ubisoft PR reps are reading this thread so they can take that down to explain away their troubles to angered shareholders.

"Sure, nobody bought XIII or Prince of Persia. But there were loads of copies on the shelves so they could have done if they'd wanted. For that alone I think we all deserve a pat on the back and a big pay rise."

You know, with the second sentence, that actually makes sense.

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"According to many experts, Nintendo's most likely route is to eventually follow Sega's lead: get out of the brutally competitive console business and focus on software."

Why didn't the guy just dispense with the bullshit and state this as his own opinion instead of trying to pin it on the supposed 'experts'?

And who the f*** exactly are these 'experts' anyway? (You could describe primary school kids as experts based on the amount of time they spend playing games).

Here's what I think: Nintendo are fucked in the console business. If they've got any sense they'll realise this now, save money by cancelling all future console projects and focus on making great games for Sony / Microsoft consoles. The games will then sell bucketloads and, who knows, magazines like Time might start talking positively about Nintendo again...

... so I agree with the 'experts'... ;)

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Here's what I think: Nintendo are fucked in the console business.

You think wrong. Sega was fucked in the console business, but how many more GCs have sold than DCs? From the figures I've seen the GC sold more two weeks ago than the DC on it's launch date. Nintendo is making a profit and has somelike like 9 billion dollars of cash reserve in the bank. If you're talking about them being "fucked" from a profit/loss standpoint then the Xbox is far more fucked as MS are losing money hand over fist on it. Plus as others have pointed out, Sony are in the shit financially at the moment.

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Here's what I think: Nintendo are fucked in the console business. If they've got any sense they'll realise this now, save money by cancelling all future console projects and focus on making great games for Sony / Microsoft consoles. The games will then sell bucketloads and, who knows, magazines like Time might start talking positively about Nintendo again...

... so I agree with the 'experts'... ;)

All very, very wrong.

Sega aren't exactly setting the world alight with thier games are they? The problem is, by going multiformat, you split your fanbase up. Some GC owners would buy Xbox 2, some would buy PS3, others would just not bother. So releasing Zelda on the PS3 already means your potential customers have halved, assuming, like what has happended with Sega, no one else cares for that particular IP. Fair enough, Zelda and Mario are arguably stronger brands than say, Panzer Dragoon, but I still don't see a rush of PS3 owners going, "Oh my God! It's Zelda! That game I used to take the piss out of for being a cartoon and for kids, is finally on my own console! Must buy must buy must buy."

It just won't happen.

Nintendo have, according to that report at least $6Billion in cash, just sitting there. They can afford to bring out another console. Why would they need to go multiformat? Why would they even need to save money? It doesn't make any sense at all as far as I am concerned.

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