Wii HD

[Majora]

Firstly SD Cards already come in sizes up to 64mb AFAIK. Secondly I am only hypothesising maybe they will let you use USB drives in the same way they let you use SD Cards? However I really don't see them letting download or install full 20gb games this generation. I imagine that DL titles will be much bigger but probably a couple of hundred megs rather than 10s of gigabytes. But who knows!

A couple of hundred megs? Most XBLA games now are at least 500 and its not unusual for them to be pushing close to 2 gigs for the likes of Shadow Complex or Lara Croft. Wiiware has already missed out on the likes of Super Meat Boy because of size restrictions. 8 gigs would be a huge fail unless you can extend the memory yourself, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot almost immediately when it comes to DLC for games like COD. That is, if they really do want to seriously compete with MS and Sony.

[Nnooo]

Super Meat Boy didn't come out on WiiWare because they couldn't be arsed trying to get the music into a smaller size. Given that all WiiWare developers know the limitations from the start that should have been taken into account, particularly seeing as WiiWare was, originally, their lead platform. The fact they assumed that Nintendo would lift the restriction for them is arrogant and stupid IMO. You work to the limitation of the hardware and the restrictions outlined by the manufacturer. If the Super Meat Boy team has used midi for their music they would have easily been able to fit within the restriction.

I really can't see Nintendo themselves making any DL game or addon more than a couple of hundred megs mainly because most users, that are not you and I, do not want to wait hours for 2GBs to download (and most peoples BB connections are not fast enough to DL 2GBs in a reasonable time frame). In terms of storage I would hope at the least they support the full range of SD card (which goes up to at least 64GB (not mb )) and at best include support for USB thumb sticks or extrenal HDDs. If the 3DS is anything to go by Nintendo really don't want to spend a 'fortune' putting in acres of storage when they can put in 'enough' and let the customer choose how much they want to expand it by.

In regards to COD etc are the new maps really 2GBs or more? I would presume then the assumption could be you have one SD card for your insanely sized COD maps and another for your Wii2Ware (or whatever its going to be called) and then another for demos. Or you buy a big one and chuck heaps on it.

They could even just sell additional storage units like Microsoft do. Then you buy a base model with 8GB and add a bigger module if you need it?

Anyway I'm sure all will be revealed at E3

[Alex W.]

I have rather limited understanding of these things, so forgive me, but why can't nintendo just do its own version of dropbox where player saves and downloads are stored remotely on nintendo servers and accessible online. A limited amount of onboard memory could be used to download a game save or DLC for the game being played, but the full library could be online.

Nintendo isn't Apple, but it shares a certain design philosophy that things should be kept very "non-computer-ey". The metaphor of offsite storage and having to juggle content to and from the cloud in response to space limitations is a bit beyond that. Although it's inconvenient enough that it otherwise would've seemed a dead cert for the Wii 2.

[Alex W.]

Super Meat Boy didn't come out on WiiWare because they couldn't be arsed trying to get the music into a smaller size. Given that all WiiWare developers know the limitations from the start that should have been taken into account, particularly seeing as WiiWare was, originally, their lead platform. The fact they assumed that Nintendo would lift the restriction for them is arrogant and stupid IMO. You work to the limitation of the hardware and the restrictions outlined by the manufacturer. If the Super Meat Boy team has used midi for their music they would have easily been able to fit within the restriction.

That's it, really. If you develop for Nintendo you have to work to some relatively strict limitations, whereas if you develop for everyone else you have more freedom. It's been the Nintendo way since the NES days, they enshrined that notion in the hardware capabilities of the Wii, and it's something they're not about to change.

[Zathras]

8GB is not enough storage if they hope to attract the 360/PS3 gamers back, which is what the initial rumours were stating. A couple of CoD games, coupled with something like Mass Effect 3 and the DLC for those is going to be tight. The hassle factor alone will surely leave them comfortably at home with Microsoft or Sony platforms. Hard drives are so cheap now, it seems crazy to deliberately not support them, especially if that's what certain third party games will require. I'm guessing hard drives will be an optional extra.

Anyway, all these rumours are doing more harm than good. Roll on E3.

[Stanley]

SD cards are so cheap these days I'd imagine any publisher determined to push downloadable content could just include one in the game box along with the disc.

[Eighthours]

I hate to say it, but I can see the 8GB thing happen. It would be a very Nintendo "WTF are you thinking?!" thing to do.

[Sprite Machine]

As a base amount, for games to use for caching and so on, 8GB is loads. I see no reason it can't be expandable or replaceable by the user. DLC on the Wii can be stored on SD cards, despite the system only having 512MB of internal space to juggle it all about (which can't be changed). And even that's assuming there won't be newer models with more space along the line.

Even if it's true, it's a non-issue at this point.

[Camel]

As a base amount, for games to use for caching and so on, 8GB is loads. I see no reason it can't be expandable or replaceable by the user. DLC on the Wii can be stored on SD cards, despite the system only having 512MB of internal space to juggle it all about (which can't be changed). And even that's assuming there won't be newer models with more space along the line.

All very sensible points. Then you remember we're talking about Nintendo, who could have added external storage support for the Wii and decided not to. And juggling stuff on SD cards becomes a pain when the game you want to run on an SD is bigger than the free space you have in internal memory and the Wii can't copy it across to run it. Multiply this by the annoying save files which can't be moved and you have an unnecessarily annoying storage system.

On the other hand my 360 HDD is brimming with stuff, but it's never an issue. With an 8GB storage limit, it would be one massive pain in the arse.

[Stanley]

I have an Xbox 360 with 4GB, and it's used largely as a media hub. It's own movie service streams fine in HD too. It's fine for demos, arcade games and so on too.

I think mass storage on consoles is pretty backwards thinking so I can totally believe this rumnour, for once.

[Massive Invisible Dog]

8GB is a sensible amount of flash memory to include if they don't think everyone is going to make use of a much bigger standard hard drive, provided they're going to allow at the very least SD cards and it's a much more seamless way of expanding storage than it currently is on the Wii.

Allowing USB hard drives would be nice.

[Stanley]

There's always the possibility the unit will have extra SD card slots too, or in the controller itself.

Knowing Nintendo this rumour will actually turn out to be false - people are getting all het up over having only 8GB storage, whereas the machine will actually only ship with 4GB, or even 2GB.

[Nnooo]

All very sensible points. Then you remember we're talking about Nintendo, who could have added external storage support for the Wii and decided not to. And juggling stuff on SD cards becomes a pain when the game you want to run on an SD is bigger than the free space you have in internal memory and the Wii can't copy it across to run it. Multiply this by the annoying save files which can't be moved and you have an unnecessarily annoying storage system.

On the other hand my 360 HDD is brimming with stuff, but it's never an issue. With an 8GB storage limit, it would be one massive pain in the arse.

You do know that you can install and run games directly from the SD card now on the Wii? I have all of my games on my SD card and they run fine. Very few are installed on the Wii itself. I can see Nintendo continuing this on their new console tbh.

[Sprite Machine]

All very sensible points. Then you remember we're talking about Nintendo, who could have added external storage support for the Wii and decided not to. And juggling stuff on SD cards becomes a pain when the game you want to run on an SD is bigger than the free space you have in internal memory and the Wii can't copy it across to run it. Multiply this by the annoying save files which can't be moved and you have an unnecessarily annoying storage system.

On the other hand my 360 HDD is brimming with stuff, but it's never an issue. With an 8GB storage limit, it would be one massive pain in the arse.

But this was a software problem due to a lack of foresight. It doesn't follow that it would happen again.

(That is, SD cards couldn't originally hold Wii channel data, hence the automatic 'swapping' method when using SD cards for storage.)

It would be better to base predictions on how the 3DS handles its memory (when the eshop becomes available), since that's more recent than the Wii. If you can store and run software directly from the card, it's a non-issue. Even then, it doesn't necessarily tell us what Nintendo will do with their next home console.

[Camel]

You do know that you can install and run games directly from the SD card now on the Wii? I have all of my games on my SD card and they run fine. Very few are installed on the Wii itself. I can see Nintendo continuing this on their new console tbh.

You've missed the point slightly. Games can be run from the SD to a fashion. What really happens is you select to run a game from the SD, and the Wii transfers it to internal memory before running it. If the game on the SD is too big, however, because you haven't much room left in internal memory, the Wii won't run it. Try it.

[SozzlyJoe]

I have an Xbox 360 with 4GB, and it's used largely as a media hub. It's own movie service streams fine in HD too. It's fine for demos, arcade games and so on too.

I think mass storage on consoles is pretty backwards thinking so I can totally believe this rumnour, for once.

What, because 4GB is enough for a device that you use for a different purpose (media streaming and small XBLA games) then 8GB is fine for the new Nintendo games console? That's not good logic, my friend. May I point out that you are not even particularly using the 360 as it is intended, you are only using a fraction of its capabilities. It's good for DEMOS? And if you like the demo, what do you do? Buy it for your "other" xbox with a HDD?

[Eighthours]

Thing is, Nintendo will always have to think about users of the default configuration, so "only" 8GB could potentially make quite a difference to how things work going forwards. Similar to how the Xbox 360 Core system (as it was then) prevented devs from using the kind of cacheing techniques that Halo 1 enjoyed.

[squirtle]

How much do things like 16Gb and 32Gb SD cards cost to make?

I wonder if Nintendo are looking are going back to a form of cartridge style gaming, like they do with the DS and 3DS? It's not like SD cards can't hold enough data for games in comparison to DVD's and with them being easily Read/Writeable, they may actually be looking at going for a console that is to all intents and purposes digital downloads only, with games downloadable on to SD cards or something. Lets face it, they've always hated CDs and DVDs, so maybe the tech is right for them to go back to solid state media.

I didn't say they would cut out retail. Nintendo know they need them so why can't they supply them with download stations or some such? It could even work like Steam where you could buy and download stuff from the stores a few days before the release date and then the console activates it on release day or something. Online retailers could offer downloads as well.

Then of course there's the SD cards themselves which would be Nintendo's own patented design and thus something for the stores to sell.

With all this talk of 8Gb on board storage, I may have been right with part of my supposition.

[squirtle]

If the multiple games on single carts was aimed at me, that isn't what I meant. What I was getting at was that with a 32Gb poprietary SD card, a customer could store maybe 5 games on there. They would have to pay for each of them and have the convenience of them all on one cart. Pricing wise, maybe they digitial download would be something like £5-£10 cheaper than buying it with a manual and box or something like that. The other thing this does is allow them to fight the pre-owned market somewhat if people are buying games via digital downloads, any money they might lose from second hand sales is curtailed somewhat.

I'm only supposing of course as I know absolutely nothing about what Nintendo have up their sleeves, but I'm sure I've read they've never been particularly happy with disc based media and would love to get back to cartridges with much quicker loading and the like. Maybe this is a chance for them to do that.

This too.

[Stanley]

What, because 4GB is enough for a device that you use for a different purpose (media streaming and small XBLA games) then 8GB is fine for the new Nintendo games console? That's not good logic, my friend. May I point out that you are not even particularly using the 360 as it is intended, you are only using a fraction of its capabilities. It's good for DEMOS? And if you like the demo, what do you do? Buy it for your "other" xbox with a HDD?

I'm not using it as it is intended; what a completely stupid statement. Perhaps we should ask Microsoft about that.

8GB is enough to be getting on with, with extra added at the users discretion - via USB devices or SD cards. I don't think Nintendo would decide that 8GB is the maximum anyone can ever use. THAT would be stupid.

[Sprite Machine]

You've missed the point slightly. Games can be run from the SD to a fashion. What really happens is you select to run a game from the SD, and the Wii transfers it to internal memory before running it. If the game on the SD is too big, however, because you haven't much room left in internal memory, the Wii won't run it. Try it.

If all games were stored on the SD card, you'd never run out of internal space (unless the internal space was less than the size of a single game). As I say, this is more of a software issue.

Thing is, Nintendo will always have to think about users of the default configuration, so "only" 8GB could potentially make quite a difference to how things work going forwards. Similar to how the Xbox 360 Core system (as it was then) prevented devs from using the kind of cacheing techniques that Halo 1 enjoyed.

Having 8GB of storage as standard for caching purposes is loads, though. It would be worse if it had none and you had to add it yourself, because then the base level for developers to use in games would be zero.

The base level for PS3 developers is only 20GB, isn't it? Or is it 5GB? For installs and stuff, I mean (caching, but lazier).

8GB is fine. It's only when you try to use it for storing libraries of games and other media content that it isn't enough, and I expect there will be expandable storage options for those purposes.

[Camel]

If all games were stored on the SD card, you'd never run out of internal space (unless the internal space was less than the size of a single game). As I say, this is more of a software issue.

Some games have massive save files which can't be moved from internal memory. It's these that eat up space. And moving every single game to SD makes the whole set-up less convenient. It's a flawed system.

I expect there will be expandable storage options for those purposes.

I expect there either won't, or it will be similarly flawed.

[Stanley]

Some games have massive save files which can't be moved from internal memory. It's these that eat up space. And moving every single game to SD makes the whole set-up less convenient. It's a flawed system.

I expect there either won't, or it will be similarly flawed.

Perhaps they could let the user choose where data, including saves, is stored - and if they support more than (1) card slot, transferring data would be easy too.

[Camel]

Perhaps they could let the user choose where data, including saves, is stored - and if they support more than card slot, transferring data would be easy too.

Hopefully. Or better yet, Nintendo will stop being idiots and there will be an option for buying a version of their console with a decent amount of storage so users don't even have to worry about where to save and how to transfer files and any other such nonsense that shouldn't even be an issue in 2011.

[Sprite Machine]

Some games have massive save files which can't be moved from internal memory. It's these that eat up space. And moving every single game to SD makes the whole set-up less convenient. It's a flawed system.

Flawed software, I agree. There's no reason to think at this point that a new system will be the same. Why would it?

I expect there either won't, or it will be similarly flawed.

Any particular reason, or are you just being pessimistic?

[Camel]

Any particular reason, or are you just being pessimistic?

Based on decisions made by Nintendo in the past.

[Sprite Machine]

Based on decisions made by Nintendo in the past.

Are any of those decisions relevant now? Did you expect, for instance, the PS3 to not offer a built-in hard drive because the PS2 didn't five years prior?

It's not really a logical method of deduction.

[Stanley]

Hopefully. Or better yet, Nintendo will stop being idiots and there will be an option for buying a version of their console with a decent amount of storage so users don't even have to worry about where to save and how to transfer files and any other such nonsense that shouldn't even be an issue in 2011.

I doubt there will be more than one version of the console, that's not very Nintendo. And even if they did they'd probably charge a premium, so it would end up being cheaper chosing your own solution anyway.

[Camel]

Are any of those decisions relevant now? Did you expect, for instance, the PS3 to not offer a built-in hard drive because the PS2 didn't five years prior?

It's not really a logical method of deduction.

You're right. One should never base their predictions on previous behaviour. Perhaps Nintendo will abandon consoles altogether and start selling washing machines. Anything could happen!

I doubt there will be more than one version of the console, that's not very Nintendo. And even if they did they'd probably charge a premium, so it would end up being cheaper chosing your own solution anyway.

Hopefully buying a larger HDD will be an option then. *fingers crossed*

[Alex W.]

5pm, Tuesday the 7th of June.