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The Valve Thread

NecroMorrius

By NecroMorrius
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Shook

Shook

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Ideally I'd like to go the steam route rather than the console route, if the right gam3s are available that is. The problem being I know nothing about PCs and don't really know how much this setup is realistically going to cost.

I know they're hoping that existing PC users will use a cheap steam machine as a streaming device to their telly, but as a mac user that isn't going to run...

I don't think many people will be happy to spend more than 400 quid on a living room entertainment setup.

The truth for me though, is that I'd prioritise whatever platform Half Life appeared on, sucker that I am.

I'd imagine that if the valve controller is well received sony will come with their own version of it right?

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snowbind

snowbind

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Building a PC is actually really easy, things won't fit in places that they aren't meant for and most things are labelled or colour coded, with the caveat of the cpu/heatsink. Arguably the hardest thing is choosing the right parts for your needs and understanding the real world effect that they have, compared to numbers. I am excited about the Steam box because it could help to standardise and collate the vast amount of PC hardware data and present it to none PC gamers in a way they can understand. If retailers offer cases with mobo/cpu/psu already assembled and then everything else configurable pre-built or not, then I think it would go a long way to demystifying the idea that building a PC is for nerds with Engineering degrees. Gamers love having the fastest hardware and feeling like they are getting the best performance, so if they can tap into the console markets love of getting new hardware and sell the idea that you can have 'a new console' like performance boost every 6, 12, 24 months by switching out parts x, y or z then they are on to a winning formula.

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Smitty

Smitty

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Daunting my arse. I mean, 'daunting'?

A graphics card in particular is especially simple. I had more trouble routing the cables around inside the case for god's sake.

The instructions, included with the card, were about this complex: put the card in this way around and push it down until it clicks.

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mushashi

mushashi

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Do you think Valve has had some sort of contact with Intel and Nvidia over the Steambox or they just went with off the shelf parts they wanted?

Well considering all their boxes use solely Intel and Nvidia, and both Intel and Nvidia have been doing work on OpenGL for Linux too, a bit of mutually beneficial back scratching going on, same as always in the computer industry.

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snowbind

snowbind

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It's really no harder than changing a headlight or a fuse. If you can make the information accessible and build into the casing easy access, then I think you can go a long way to making it less daunting. SteamOS could have an upgrade section with upgrade advice and tutorials/animations to talk people through it.

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snowbind

snowbind

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Daunting my arse. I mean, 'daunting'?

A graphics card in particular is especially simple. I had more trouble routing the cables around inside the case for god's sake.

The instructions, included with the card, were about this complex: put the card in this way around and push it down until it clicks.

I agree, I think the complex issues are with cabling, the case and the mobo/cpu.If you had a case that was built from the ground up with a novice builder in mind then it could be built in such a manner that swapping out gpu's/ram/hdd's would be a lot easier. Then maybe manufacturing a cpu/heatsink module that didn't require the manual installation of paste/fan, but could just be swapped in and out as a whole.

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Shook

Shook

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Any building/DIY at all puts it in a very different market to a console though.

It's easy to forget that out of circles like these, tech stuff is daunting for people. There are millions out there that would not be comfortable upgrading RAM in a laptop for example, regardless of the ease involved.

My prediction is that combined with the massive existing Steam user base, this will be successful because there are enough nerds to make it so.

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snowbind

snowbind

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But the console market is a tech market. New hardware is big business. If you remove the mysticism surrounding upgrading then it's no longer an issue. It also offers better value for money and upgrade cycles centered around the individual not the manufacturer.

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DocG

DocG

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Do you think Valve has had some sort of contact with Intel and Nvidia over the Steambox or they just went with off the shelf parts they wanted?

AMD's CPUs are well behind Intel's by almost every metric, except perhaps price, so no surprises that the latter would win that beauty contest. As for the GPUs, AMD's Linux drivers are light years behind nVidia's, and as SteamOS is a Linux distribution I imagine that made the decision quite easy.

Daunting my arse. I mean, 'daunting'?

...

The instructions, included with the card, were about this complex: put the card in this way around and push it down until it clicks.

The amount of force to get a card into a virgin slot can be quite intimidating. Even with plenty of experience I've found myself convinced I'm surely about to snap the motherboard clean in two. It's nowhere near as bad as the white knuckle ride that was fitting an Athlon-era heat sink, though.
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TehStu

TehStu

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Daunting my arse. I mean, 'daunting'?

A graphics card in particular is especially simple. I had more trouble routing the cables around inside the case for god's sake.

The instructions, included with the card, were about this complex: put the card in this way around and push it down until it clicks.

Despite being well versed in PC building, I knackered a 180 quid Gravis Ultrasound with static back in the day. There's that daunting aspect, the actual mechanics are relatively simple.
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snowbind

snowbind

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I do think there is scope to manufacture components that go together in idiot proof ways. A colour coded motherboard with colour coded cabling would be a good place to start. Also custom modulation units for components. Like fisher price 'my first PC build'.

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TehStu

TehStu

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I do think there is scope to manufacture components that go together in idiot proof ways.  A colour coded motherboard with colour coded cabling would be a good place to start. Also custom modulation units for components. Like fisher price 'my first PC build'.

Which sounds daft to us, but that's exactly what they did with the standard rear I/O panel on motherboards. The same concept to internals seems reasonable (other than the fact they've gone with off the shelf for the beta).

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Alex W.

Alex W.

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I do think there is scope to manufacture components that go together in idiot proof ways. A colour coded motherboard with colour coded cabling would be a good place to start. Also custom modulation units for components. Like fisher price 'my first PC build'.

Why bother, though?

1) Home builds

2) Boutique pre-builds from hobbyists

3) Large scale pre-builds from companies

Or did I miss something and they've ruled out commercialisation?

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snowbind

snowbind

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Why bother, though?

1) Home builds

2) Boutique pre-builds from hobbyists

3) Large scale pre-builds from companies

Or did I miss something and they've ruled out commercialisation?

Sure, so just to come back to this. With the exception of the first in your list each of those options just become glorified consoles when you don't factor in one of PC's greatest strengths, upgradability. I think it is short-sighted to consider any scenario where Valve aren't thinking about the possibility of this becoming big and getting into a lot of peoples homes. It also plays into their idea of tiers, which seems weird for PC, unless you factor that in. If they have a system for ranking your machine, then that rank becomes static if you can't add extra parts. Adding a way to easily do that, for people who don't know how to feeds into their eco-system, retains custom, helps provide a service and helps to maintain effective scalability. Not to mention it's cost efficient, environmentally friendly and just brilliant all around. It has to come from the OS though, it has to be built in and as simple or as complex as the user requires. I mean fuck, even just thinking about it makes perfect sense. All the data they collect on hardware, the potential business partnerships.

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