The Valve Thread

[Comrade]

Out of interest - do you have any evidence to support the claim that "thumbs are far more sensitive and active than fingers"?

I've had two of them my whole life?

[DocG]

Thumbs are far more sensitive and active than fingers, that's why pads have all the main buttons for them.

Is that why everyone I've ever seen unfailingly uses their thumb for laptop glide pads? Oh, wait, the other thing.

[Bojangle]

Out of interest - do you have any evidence to support the claim that "thumbs are far more sensitive and active than fingers"? That sounds like some pretty spurious bullshit you've come up with to support your point.

It's flat out bullshit.

[Comrade]

OK then, if fingers are fine for jumping in platform games, can someone point me to some examples of some that have jumping on a shoulder button as default?

[jonathanhoey]

Just try imagining playing Super Mario Bros on this thing.

It'd be impossible, there's no D-pad.

I know some people are saying virtual D-pads on mobile phone games are fine, but I've never found one I got on with at all.

[NecroMorrius]

One of the shittiest things about FPS on a controller is you can't turn really jump, spin and shoot at the same time, because your finger has to choose between the stick or the jump button. This is why pro players sometimes move jump to another another button, or Gears of war where they move the "A" function to the shoulder pad, which works brilliantly. Having "jump", a totally binary action, on the back makes a lot of sense.

[Shook]

When I used to play Halo online the bumper jumper scheme was the nuts.

Having "jump", a totally binary action, on the back makes a lot of sense.

and this.

[Bojangle]

It'd be impossible, there's no D-pad.

I know some people are saying virtual D-pads on mobile phone games are fine, but I've never found one I got on with at all.

Oh my god, this is completely different from a virtual d-pad.

Read. The. Press. Release.

[ZOK]

So is this the controller I need to finally properly play Hotline Miami on my MBP?

[Alex W.]

Who has two thumbs and doesn't like the Steampad?

That guy.

[Massive Invisible Dog]

OK then, if fingers are fine for jumping in platform games, can someone point me to some examples of some that have jumping on a shoulder button as default?

Why would they put jump on a shoulder button when they can use the commonly accepted face button solution which has been the standard since the time when shoulder buttons didn't exist? They would only switch if it was somehow better for the game. It wouldn't be better - it'd be the same but a bit counter-intuitive for people who expect it to be on the face button.

[pulsemyne]

People do realise that the Portal 2 one is just an example and everything can be remapped don't they?

[Comrade]

Oh my god, this is completely different from a virtual d-pad.

Read. The. Press. Release.

The only difference between this and a virtual d-pad is the haptic stuff which ultimately no one knows how well it works until someone gets their hands on it. I'm reserving judgement on the trackpads until then, but suffice to say, if the haptic stuff doesn't recentre the thumbs effectively, it is exactly the same as a virtual d-pad.

[NecroMorrius]

So is this the controller I need to finally properly play Hotline Miami on my MBP?

This thing would be really really good for twinstick shooters and games like Hotline miami where you twist around like that

[Ferine]

OK then, if fingers are fine for jumping in platform games, can someone point me to some examples of some that have jumping on a shoulder button as default?

Mirror's Edge did. That worked flawlessly and makes a load more sense than a face button for a 3D game.

[Alex W.]

I really do think that the concave shape will make a huge difference. You'll be able to center much more easily.

[TommyG]

One of the shittiest things about FPS on a controller is you can't turn really jump, spin and shoot at the same time, because your finger has to choose between the stick or the jump button. This is why pro players sometimes move jump to another another button, or Gears of war where they move the "A" function to the shoulder pad, which works brilliantly. Having "jump", a totally binary action, on the back makes a lot of sense.

Massively this. I use a scuf controller for halo with buttons on the back which makes a huge difference.

[NecroMorrius]

I'm reserving judgement on the trackpads

[Shook]

As Moz explained, placing jumping on a shoulder/back button makes sense so you don't have to let go of a stick to do it.

It's a better place for it simple as that.

[Smitty]

So is this the controller I need to finally properly play Hotline Miami on my MBP?

A mouse would be fine.

[Simmy]

I ran Hitman Absolution in Big Picture mode as the final task with a controller, but it's still blank and shows as not being completed. Annoying.

[Smitty]

Twin sticks are great though, all the language like 'hate' and ''shittiest' is really odd to my mind. You HATE playing FPSs on a controller? Really? HATE?

[Comrade]

Why would they put jump on a shoulder button when they can use the commonly accepted face button solution which has been the standard since the time when shoulder buttons didn't exist? They would only switch if it was somehow better for the game. It wouldn't be better - it'd be the same but a bit counter-intuitive for people who expect it to be on the face button.

Putting jump on the shoulder button would free up the face buttons for all sorts of uses. If it was exactly the same then at least one game would have tried it. Can you name one?

[Shook]

Massively this. I use a scuf controller for halo with buttons on the back which makes a huge difference.

I watched one of your videos once and promptly stopped playing.

[Bojangle]

Putting jump on the shoulder button would free up the face buttons for all sorts of uses. If it was exactly the same then at least one game would have tried it. Can you name one?

Yeah, think of all those other uses Nintendo could have used the face buttons for in the latest Mario Bros game!

[Massive Invisible Dog]

Putting jump on the shoulder button would free up the face buttons for all sorts of uses. If it was exactly the same then at least one game would have tried it. Can you name one?

Leaving jump on the face button also leaves all of the shoulder buttons free for all sorts of uses. There's no benefit in moving it from the face button to a shoulder button in that scenario. Also - which platformer are we talking about that needs all of these buttons?

[Comrade]

Mirror's Edge did. That worked flawlessly and makes a load more sense than a face button for a 3D game.

Well, OK, non-first person platform games then. I'm obviously thinking side-on and 3D platformers like the Mario games here.

[ZOK]

A mouse would be fine.

I hate playing games with a mouse. That's not gaming, it's working.

[Shook]

It's a brave new concept that might be the way forward. Can't wait to try one when Half Life 3 comes out!

[Smitty]

I hate playing games with a mouse. That's not gaming, it's working.

OK Zok.