Shigeru Miyamoto - "3D is the future of gaming"

[moosegrinder]

Is it really as revolutionary as colour coming to cinema though? I honestly don't see why it is. I don't get on with it, people without 20/20 vision CAN'T get on with it so 2D isn't going anywhere. I understand why people want it and like it but to say it's as big a deal as colour coming to film is a bit much.

[Kinketsu]

Blind in one eye so I can't see 3D things, it just gives me a massive headache, so like I said, I'm biased.

MID, I wouldn't say that's exactly the same thing though because (apart from the fact that colour blindness doesn't work like that) colour film is a more subtle factor. This is like if every movie had those shaking chairs that match the onscreen action or something. Like I said, I can't see the effect, but I can't imagine how a Melville film or a Sid Meier game would be better if it all seemed to be happening a few inches from the screen.

Also I just hate 3D irrationally.

And children.

[Mr Cochese]

Colour TV will never catch on because colourblind people still won't be able to watch snooker.

[Mr Cochese]

For some reason I can clearly remember watching snooker in black and white in the very early 80s before we got our first colour telly. Why did people used to watch snooker on telly? It was still crap even then.

[Matteo]

But surely the whole argument about color/3D paradigm hinges on the idea that if somebody is colourblind, you are going to have hard time to explain what "red" is like, and similarly if you havent played a 3D game before its going to be hard to explain how big/small of a difference it makes.

This is a selling point for nintendo IMO in that to imagine what a NGP is like you just have to imagine a PS3 game.

[Alex W.]

Is it really as revolutionary as colour coming to cinema though? I honestly don't see why it is. I don't get on with it, people without 20/20 vision CAN'T get on with it so 2D isn't going anywhere.

My vision's a long, long way from 20/20 (and the defect is rather unbalanced) and I get on with 3D fine. Especially after I invested in my clip-on specs.

[Alex W.]

Blind in one eye so I can't see 3D things, it just gives me a massive headache, so like I said, I'm biased.

I'm trying to figure out why that is. Do you bother wearing 3D glasses when you go to the cinema? If you don't, then you'll be getting double images. If you put the 3D specs on it'll filter out one of the images and it'll look the same as watching any 2D movie, motion strobing issues notwithstanding. (That's an irritant for people watching in 3D, too.)

[deerokus]

Comparing 3d to colour is a bit ridiculous. A better comparison would be Cinemascope or 70mm or something like that.

[Massive Invisible Dog]

I never said it was significant as colour. I said I wondered if people who couldn't see something also thought they were in a position to write it off for everyone else.

How about someone completely incapable of hearing surround sound writing that off? That's better, because it's a more comparable addition to gaming as 3D will be.

[DC Lemon]

TBH I rather skip the HD generation and go straight to the 3D one, if that was feasible.

It looks like it will be if you're a Nintendo fanboy.

[Kinketsu]

I'm trying to figure out why that is. Do you bother wearing 3D glasses when you go to the cinema? If you don't, then you'll be getting double images. If you put the 3D specs on it'll filter out one of the images and it'll look the same as watching any 2D movie, motion strobing issues notwithstanding. (That's an irritant for people watching in 3D, too.)

I assure you I'm not doing anything wrong, I do wear the glasses and I used to review movies so I know how it works. It looks like watching a dark 2D movie except one that's being badly projected. It ends up giving me a mad headache but I can still follow it, I just can't see the 3D effect at all.

Next time on Kinketsu's medical issues:

[Meh]

I think 3D could be good, depending on the games. I havent played or seen a 3D games yet, so Im curious.

But I still play games on a SD tv, and Im quite happy about it. I think HD gaming is a fad and I am equally happy to play a Wii game as I am playing a PS2 or a 360.

If 3D becomes more of a revolution that HD was, all the better.

hahahaha

[Capwn]

Fact : 3D gaming IS the future but it's going to take 10-20 years to get it 'right'.

The end. Close the thread.

[Meh]

It's also going to take new hardware, as far as telly consoles go. They're dog-shit at it.

[the_debaser]

3D is clearly not just a gimmick. It'll become the standard soon enough. Anyone who can't comprehend this is a muppet.

[Meh]

Or has one eye.

[Vorgot]

Then how can you possibly say it's a gimmick?

Of course I can still say it's a gimmick. The fact that I can't see it has nothing to do with it.

What I can see is films and games being adapted to a format for nothing more than a bit of 'wooo' factor.

3D has a number 2 major problems :

You have to wear a big pair of glasses OR

You have to keep your head still in relation to a screen.

Its self limiting straight from the off. And while it might be a nice effect, what is it actually adding to the games and films? Does it really change the game for entertainment? I'm not convinced.

Nothing to do with me being able to see it. I do think it's being hyped and pushed by technology companies as they have nothing else new to sell us.

Colour TV

Video Recorder

Surround Sound

Widescreen

DVD

HD

Bluray

Better HD......

3D!!!!!!

But while I can see the push for the others, I dont get the push for 3D

[Vemsie]

It's also going to take new hardware, as far as telly consoles go.

This really. I am not jumping on the 'Fuck 3D' bandwagon, but as long as it comes at the expense of frame rate and resolution it can bugger off.

[carlito]

If at first....

[Vorgot]

This really. I am not jumping on the 'Fuck 3D' bandwagon, but as long as it comes at the expense of frame rate and resolution it can bugger off.

This is my stance really. I'm in the "Fuck 3D at the moment" camp. Am sure it will be refined and improved in the future.

[NecroMorrius]

I wouldn't really mind 3D as the standard so long as they sort out all the problems with it. All of them. But what really annoys me is anyone who thinks it can have a tangible effect on gameplay and the fact that people keep going on and on about it, first the marketing and now the people who are convinced by it. If they just snuck it in I wouldn't mind, but having to put up with bullshit hyperbole about what is currently a problematic optical illusion is very draining.

I know we had the same push from tech companies for HD and colour and new disc formats, DVD and Bluray and whatnot, but these were obvious improvements with little to no compromise involved. 3D isn't, yet.

[Orbital2060]

This won't end well.

[user removed]

Is it really as revolutionary as colour coming to cinema though? I honestly don't see why it is. I don't get on with it, people without 20/20 vision CAN'T get on with it so 2D isn't going anywhere. I understand why people want it and like it but to say it's as big a deal as colour coming to film is a bit much.

20/20 vision isn't what affects perception of 3D.

3D will quite obviously become the standard soon enough. Autostereoscopic sets have only just started being released, but you'd be silly to think if that will be the be all and end all of it! Obviously the technology has a long way to go and imo it's too early (and prohibitively expensive) to adopt, but give it a decade and it will most certainly be the in ting.

[Sprite Machine]

Of course I can still say it's a gimmick. The fact that I can't see it has nothing to do with it.

I honestly don't know how to respond to this. It's just logically false in the most fundamental sense. You're judging the WORTH of a visual feature that you cannot perceive. Your argument is nonsensical.

But what really annoys me is anyone who thinks it can have a tangible effect on gameplay

It can. It can improve your spatial and positional awareness, benefiting almost any game set within a 3D environment.

and the fact that people keep going on and on about it, first the marketing and now the people who are convinced by it. If they just snuck it in I wouldn't mind, but having to put up with bullshit hyperbole about what is currently a problematic optical illusion is very draining.

Don't, then.

[NecroMorrius]

Funny you should say that sprite, because actual tests carried out by Custom PC recently showed that playing a game in 3D improves your performance by 0%.

Consistently.

There's a mini write-up of the experiment here

The crux of the test was to determine whether or not 3D gaming affected the skills of our testers, and on the surface, our testing would suggest that it didn’t. The average fastest lap in 2D was 2:06:75, while the average fastest lap in 3D was 2:07:50. However, a closer look at the numbers revealed a distinct pattern – fast drivers consistently suffered from switching to 3D while slow drivers tended to improve.

We defined a fast driver as anyone hitting a lap time of less than two minutes, and on average, these drivers lost 5.33 seconds with 3D enabled. Slow drivers – those that took more than two minutes to complete their fastest lap – became 3.83 seconds faster on average. However, one slow driver lost time (two seconds) from the switch to 3D, while another was equally slow in either mode.

The slow drivers improvement is down to the fact that they're replaying the tracks for the second/third/fourth time.

Are you implying all the one-eyed 2D paupers will be at a disadvantage when they play against their 3D-using 3DS opponents?

[Stanley]

Well it's sort of like audio books coming out and saying "That's it, it's perfect, why would anyone read a book anymore?" or something.

Or Kindle, ipad etc.

It's clearly not perfect, but that doesn't mean it's not the future.

If we're not using holodecks before I die I'll be very upset.

[b00dles]

3D will be the future but it won't be 3D as we know it now (Jim).

The depth perception is undeniably a big thing with 3D, I'm sure there was some study somewhere that more females than males have difficulty perceiving 3D depth as we saw as of Doom (an FPS 3D if you will) on a flat panel, there was a difficulty with gauging where the turns in the corridor were and what have you. 3D will be able to convey that depth much more clearly.

Also a lot of people complained of motion sickness with Doom and so on, I remember Descent almost causing me to lose my lunch but that was more becuase of it flipping about all over the place and not knowing what was up and what was down. Those sort of things have been minimalised or people have become more used to it. Similar things will happen with 3D.

I agree it's overused in cinema at the moment and the insistence on having things flying out the screen all the time is annoying but in even a 'normal' scene the sense of depth is really quite something.

I do also agree that it maybe won't 'enhance' the gaming experience as polygons or analogue control and what have you but it will definitely be a benefit in regards to depth conveyed on a screen.

Either way, it's here to stay and I'll be very surprised if the next gen of consoles don't do some sort of 3D out of the box. Although ideally, I'd prefer everyone to get rid of the silly glasses.

[Stanley]

dp

[user removed]

Funny you should say that sprite, because actual tests carried out by Custom PC recently showed that playing a game in 3D improves your performance by 0%.

Improve performance?! PERFORMANCE?! Not what I'm interested in at all when playing a game. Next there will be annual reviews and disciplinary hearing for 100%ing games.

Immersion, fun, awe, escapism. Yes and I reckon 3D will help bump that up significantly. When done right.

[NecroMorrius]

Improve performance?! PERFORMANCE?! Not what I'm interested in at all when playing a game. Next there will be annual reviews and disciplinary hearing for 100%ing games.

Haha, no, same here. I was just responding to another post.