Ultra Street Fighter IV

[ah]

I just got perfected by Sith's T Hawk.

[sith]

I wasn't Dragonman last night, no. Which character was he using? Also are his player points less than 3,000 now? I had no idea anyone was using the account!

About 2,200 last time I beat him. He tried counter-picking with Blanks lol.

I just got perfected by Sith's T Hawk.

Heh, just one of those rare clean rounds! Good games mate, really enjoyed them.

[ah]

I didn't believe in the power of st.HK but now I believe.

Sad times for Dragonman, we need to get him out to an event to hone his skills. Or stop him playing while drunk. He has fewer points than me now which just isn't right.

[JLM]

God damn it. People cannot be trusted with that account. It's OK, next time I go to Ant's I will get Rose back on the case and prop it up again.

Also my job recently ended and I am once again temporarily unemployed. This undoubtedly means my Streetfighter game will level up significantly over the next couple of weeks. If anyone is doing afternoon things or has random days off during the week then I would like to hear about it. I am at that stage where I still wake up at the crack of dawn as if to go to work, then look for/apply for jobs for a while, then realise I have quite a lot of day still available. I intend to fill some of this time with fightings.

[ah]

Friday this week, maybe?

[JLM]

Sounds good.

Also that Eventhubs match up rankings thingy has thrown up these as the most lopsided match ups in the game:

1. Blanka 7.7 / T. Hawk 2.3
2. Guile 7.1 / M. Bison 2.9
3. Sagat 7.0 / Zangief 3.0
4. Cammy 6.9 / Dhalsim 3.1
5. Yun 6.7 / Dhalsim 3.3

6. C. Viper 6.6 / Dhalsim 3.4
6. Dhalsim 6.6 / E. Honda 3.4
6. Dhalsim 6.6 / T. Hawk 3.4
6. Seth 6.6 / Dan 3.4
6. Sagat 6.6 / T. Hawk 3.4

11. Sagat 6.5 / E. Honda 3.5
11. Seth 6.5 / Dhalsim 3.5
11. Seth 6.5 / Zangief 3.5

14. Akuma 6.4 / Dan 3.6
14. Akuma 6.4 / T. Hawk 3.6
14. Akuma 6.4 / Zangief 3.6
14. Cammy 6.4 / Dan 3.6
14. Dhalsim 6.4 / Zangief 3.6
14. Guile 6.4 / T. Hawk 3.6
14. Seth 6.4 / E. Honda 3.6

Few surprises at the top end there. Thought Hakan/Sim might be in there, though it's still an exceptionally rare match up to see so maybe isn't as relevant. If Hakan plays it right though I'd say it's one of the few match ups that's close to Blanka/Hawk for sheer hopelessness.

[JLM]

Here is some Chun theory fighter based on more of that Eventhubs data:

The votes for Chun mostly line up with my assessment of her in the current version. She has plenty of even and favourable match ups, but many of them are not useful ones in tournament and she loses to pretty much the entire top tier. It's reassuring to see that the voting mostly agrees with this. I'm also glad to see that the voting has Juri down as an unfavourable match up. If Juri plays it super lame and zones her out then that match feels extremely difficult for Chun and it's nice to know that it's just not me who thinks so.

Her match ups according to votes are:

Wins

Gief (6-4) - Agree. Some people say it's worse than that for Gief, but if he mixes up his approach and makes his knockdowns pay it's far from unwinnable.

Dan (6-4) - Agree in principle. She should completely dominate him in the neutral game as his footsies are terrible. I got mauled by Ixion, but he's a much better player than me and I don't know the match up at all. The reason I struggle is because light air Dan kicks seem to let him skip the neutral game and then his pressure/damage is easily good enough to beat Chun. However, I think that was me failing to deal with it correctly rather than it being a match winning option.

T. Hawk (6-4) - Agree. Again, you could argue that it's worse for Hawk but I think his damage, life and the fact that he has surprisingly good buttons means he can win if he's patient enough.

Honda (5.5) - Agree, and I'm reassured that it's not considered worse for Honda. I totally get that in theory she can keep him out forever, but the fact that she can't do anything about jumping medium punch means he will almost inevitably get in at some stage. Also his damage is ludicrous and he can carve out an insurmountable life lead with just a few decent guesses. I still think Chun wins but the more I play it the closer I think it is.

Hakan (5.5) - Agree I guess. Never seen it played at high level ever and it's rare for me to fight a good Hakan. Chun generally beats grapplers so on paper it makes sense.

Dudley (5.5) - Yeah, agreed, a win for Chun but not a free one by any means. Chun wins the neutral game but he can be difficult to anti-air and he has that explosive damage. Also Chun hates focus attacks a lot and his is excellent.

Dee Jay (5.5) - Yup. She does all of Dee Jay's neutral stuff better than he does. Knee shot is a bastard to deal with though.

Balrog (5.5) - I'd say it's 6-4 Chun. If Chun plays lame enough there should be no reason to lose to Balrog. I am personally garbage at this match up, which is very frustrating because I totally understand how and why Chun wins it. She has better buttons, if she has Super Balrog can't do anything, her sweep is a nightmare for him to deal with and her fireball gives her the edge in the charge character vs charge character war because she can force him to attack.

M. Bison (5.5) - Again I'd give it to Chun 6-4. I am confident in this match up, but even watching it neutrally I think it's a loss for Bison. He is easy to anti-air, she has a better ground game, she can ultra EX psycho crusher, she can ultra devil reverse, she can air grab head stomps and her sweep stuffs LK scissors on start up. Also, like against Balrog, she has a fireball so she can force an action in charge character stalemate match ups.

Abel (5.5) - Chun is very adept at keeping Abel out, but she does struggle if he gets his vortex going as her wake up game is terrible. A win for Chun because of the neutral game but I'd agree that it's not a huge one.

Vega (5.5) - Hard to say. Feels like a 5-5 to me, but it's another one where I've never seen it played at the right level to judge. It'd be nice if there was a Chun player on Zeus' level in America but there isn't anyone remotely close.


Even

Cody, El Fuerte, Gouken, Guy, Ken, Makoto, Yang, Dhalsim, Oni, Rose, Ryu, Sagat, Blanka.

Yup, though would perhaps give her the edge over Cody as she can keep him out quite effectively. Tempted to say she slightly edges Sagat as well, though not by much. Probably the match up I have the most experience of playing at a high-ish standard and I feel like I have all the tools I need to win it, but Sagat has the edge in damage and also has a much stronger comeback factor.

Definitely think she's even aganst most shotos, Chun/Rose feels about as close as you can get without running the same character. Makoto is totally outclassed in the mid-range but wins in every other department, which I guess makes them about even. Blanka/Chun is determined mostly by the life lead. Chun is better at maintaining control over the course of a long round, but Blanka has much better burst damage potential and can sometimes establish a big lead early and then punish Chun for trying to claw it back.

Losses

Juri (4.5) - Yeah. As mentioned earlier, Chun cannot compete with Juri's zoning ability. Also, if it's down to the dying seconds and it's about winning by pixels, Juri has much better tools for securing damage at the last second. She also has Ultra 1 burst damage potential.

Gen (4.5) - Agreed. One of the few characters who has the buttons to rival Chun, plus he has a beastly focus attack that can blow through her pokes very easily. Oh, and EX SBK does nothing against Gen's set ups if he knows what he's doing.

Evil Ryu (4.5) - Yeah I'd say he's the only shoto aside from Akuma who beats Chun. He has the walk speed, the ability to alter his jump arc, a strong fireball game and of course that ludicrous damage output. Definitely better at this fight than regular Ryu.

Guile (4.5) - Yup. Another one I have quite a lot of experience playing. He can out-lame Chun and he does more damage.

Ibuki (4.5) - Yup. Chun can win in the neutral but Ibuki has the tools to get in and then Chun struggles with both the vortex and Ibuki's standing pressure. Also having to hold charge for EX SBK means you eat a million overheads in this match up.

Fei Long (4.5) - I'd give it to Fei 6-4. Rekkas nullify Chun's ground game and if he gets her to the corner (which he fucking will!) she is toast. If Chun isn't outclassing the opponent in the mid-range game then she's not much use at all, and she cannot do that to Fei.

Adon (4.5) - Yeah. Adon loses at footsies but is not massively outclassed, he has good answers to fireballs and of course he has jaguar kick pressure. Chun particularly struggles with the latter as she can't threaten to uppercut or reaction ultra them.

And finally, this little block of characters who break the rules of the game and stomp all over Chun's poor little face while she murmurs something about John Choi and fundamentals whilst drowning in a puddle of blood and tears

Yun (4-6) - I'd be tempted to say this is worse than 4-6. Once Yun gets in a single time this fight is over, and him getting in just feels like a matter of time because he doesn't need to play Streetfighter to do it and Streetfighter is what Chun is good at.

Cammy (4-6) - As above. It's hard to say which is worse. Cammy has a stronger vortex but then Yun has a command grab. Either way, both characters can completely bypass the neutral game and then maul Chun to death in seconds.

Viper (4-6) - Yeah, again, Viper doesn't have to play Streetfighter and that is a bad look for Chun. That said, I don't think it's as bad for Chun as Yun/Cammy at least.

Seth (4-6) - Blahblahdoesn'tplayStreetfighterblahblahbypasstheneutralgameblahblahdeadinsecondsblah.....

Rufus (4-6) - Again, Rufus can in theory skip the Streetfighter bit and get to mauling. He's a fatter target though, and I feel like I can at least keep him out a good chunk of the time. Also once he does get in it still isn't as horrible as what Cammy and Yun do to her. Chun lacks a good three button option select to challenge the throw/double dive kick mix up, but her backdash is infinitely more useful here than it is against Cammy/Yun/Akuma/Seth.. I do think Rufus wins but it's not on the same scale of destruction as the other characters in this group. I'd say either this isn't as bad as 4-6 or Yun/Cammy are worse.

Lastly, Chun's worst match up is Akuma (3-7). Agreed on this one too. I think he wins on almost every front. She has better buttons but he has the walk speed to compete on the ground. He massively outclasses her at zoning. He can skip the neutral game completely with demon flip. She is even more fucked than most against the Vortex. He does more damage, and if she does manage to mount offense there is nothing she can do about teleports. I know there are very few top class Chun players left in the world, but I cannot envision what it would take for a Chun player to beat Tokido or Infiltration. The match up is essentially the same as Rose vs Akuma if you took away Rose's crouching fierce. So not pretty at all, and we recently saw how the best Rose player in the entire universe fared against Tokido.

[imp]

Sounds good.

Also that Eventhubs match up rankings thingy has thrown up these as the most lopsided match ups in the game:

1. Blanka 7.7 / T. Hawk 2.3

2. Guile 7.1 / M. Bison 2.9

3. Sagat 7.0 / Zangief 3.0

4. Cammy 6.9 / Dhalsim 3.1

5. Yun 6.7 / Dhalsim 3.3

6. C. Viper 6.6 / Dhalsim 3.4

6. Dhalsim 6.6 / E. Honda 3.4

6. Dhalsim 6.6 / T. Hawk 3.4

6. Seth 6.6 / Dan 3.4

6. Sagat 6.6 / T. Hawk 3.4

11. Sagat 6.5 / E. Honda 3.5

11. Seth 6.5 / Dhalsim 3.5

11. Seth 6.5 / Zangief 3.5

14. Akuma 6.4 / Dan 3.6

14. Akuma 6.4 / T. Hawk 3.6

14. Akuma 6.4 / Zangief 3.6

14. Cammy 6.4 / Dan 3.6

14. Dhalsim 6.4 / Zangief 3.6

14. Guile 6.4 / T. Hawk 3.6

14. Seth 6.4 / E. Honda 3.6

Few surprises at the top end there. Thought Hakan/Sim might be in there, though it's still an exceptionally rare match up to see so maybe isn't as relevant. If Hakan plays it right though I'd say it's one of the few match ups that's close to Blanka/Hawk for sheer hopelessness.

Bzzt wrongo.

Number 1 should be:

DeeJay 9.1 / imp 0.9

[Camel]

Dhalsim 6.6 / T. Hawk 3.4

Someone tell me how to beat Hawk please, because it never feels like that at all.

Someone play this and tell me how good it is please. I would play myself but I'm going to be having way too much fun sitting in meetings all day today. Whoop.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/fun/news/a551824/sesame-street-fighter-the-first-educational-beat-em-up-is-incredible.html#no

[JLM]

Haha. I've recently converted some of the SFO players to the church of Dee Jay-is-actually-not-very-good. We meet on alternating Sundays and we don't do many cross ups on people's wake up.

We were playing a whole bunch o'games at an SFO casual session, and I ended up picking Dee Jay and winning about twenty in a row because none of them knew how to fight him. I then revealed to them my top secret anti-Dee jay technology (meaty low attacks make upkicks whiff) and their minds were blown. It was that breakthrough that allowed me to start beating him and it's still very apparent that nobody on the xboxnets knows that. When I fight a high ranked Dee Jay with loads of points it's often clear that many of them are banking on that lack of match up knowledge themselves, as it will often take me low profiling under it and punishing two or three times in a row before they stop. Then they switch to EX MGB or wake up ultra instead, but if they're your only concerns on his wake up then he becomes so much easier to manage.

That said, I'm looking forward to exploiting that same lack of knowledge myself when amassing mountains of points for Dragonman Dee Jay in future.

[imp]

Ah-ha! I will try that next time. Though now Donut will read that and know that all he has to do is never stop up kicking on wakeup. The cycle continues.

[mayor_mike_haggar]

For hawk sim can't sim just keep hawk out with buttons and either use something like j.MP to anti air jump ins or teleport away to avoid the jumping attack or condor dive mixup. Or just stop him jumping with like St.mk.

Teleport should also get sim out of the LP typhoon hawktex for free. Anyone with good keep away should be a nightmare for hawk.

[JLM]

Camel, you have to be super evasive against T. Hawk. Slide under things, teleport, back dash, stay mobile and be as annoying as you can. Don't go for too many mix ups or shenanigans and focus on reacting to what he does. I imagine the biggest headache for 'sim is being uncertain about using anti-air normals in case he does a late condor dive to beat them. The only way to discourage that is making sure you punish every blocked dive by at least getting a standing fierce on it, and doing more with a super or similarly beefy punish when available. It's often worth punishing a blocked dive with roundhouse slide as well, as this gets you a hard knockdown and you can choose where to run to next as Hawk is getting up.

I'd recommend picking Ultra 2 for this match if you aren't already. You can punish blocked dives with tiger knee ultra 2, and you can also punish condor spires on reaction. YHCMochi and the other top Japanese Dhalsim players pick Shangri La against Hawk and get good mileage out of it.

Other than that it's just trying to frustrate him. Yoga fires, Medium punch, medium kick, standing roundhouse air to air normals. Try to pre-emptively hit him when he wants to jump so you don't have to guess with anti-airs so often. Try not to commit to your more laggy normals too much as he will jump and dive over them. If you use standing fierce make sure it's at max distance or he'll jump it like it's a fireball and punish you. Oh, and make sure to use EX yoga blast for last minute anti-airs. Don't let the threat of dives stop you anti-airing at all. Unless they're a particularly scrubby Hawk player they're not going to do Condor Dive every single time they jump, and it's better to eat a few of them than to let him jump whenever he wants. Also go air to air against him as well. It's similar to the Gief match up where you have to use every tool available to keep him out and you can't get set on using the same anti-air over and over again because Hawk has the option to mix up his own approach.

T. Hawk's best approach to the match is to go absolutely rabid against 'Sim, so you have to play at a fast pace yourself to keep up. He has lots of life to give away and will mostly be trying to out-damage you and chase you about the place like a mad man making big guesses because he can afford to do it. It's not a match Hawk can win by carefully picking his way in, so don't expect him to do so.

Here is one of Japan's top 'Sim players beating Japan's best T. Hawk:

Notice how he keeps challenging Hawk and giving him buttons to run into even though he gets hit for some of them. You have to be ballsy and keep doing it anyway because Hawk needs to be losing life for every attempt he makes to get in. Also that is a particularly godlike use of Ultra 2 against that baited EX spire. You don't even have to be that quick with it for it to be a great help in the match up though.

[Camel]

Wahey. Excellent stuff. Thanks.

Yes, the big headache is trying to anti-air and the risk of getting dived at. A good Hawk ends up making me fear using anti-airs at all and then I'm breakfast. Will watch that vid later, thanks.

I'm going to start playing this again soon. So watch out guys. Fear my mediocrity.

Edit: And I've always used Ultra 1 in that matchup so will switch to 2.

[JLM]

The other thing about getting hit by Condor dive is that he isn't necessarily "in" after it hits. He still bounces away and will have to dash/jump/focus/spire/move again to get to his ideal range. You take damage and you get knocked down, but it's better than letting him empty jump or having to block a normal attack, because in both of those instances he'll be right next to you and that is the worst possible outcome. Getting hit by a dive is arguably preferable to blocking a jump roundhouse because you were scared to anti-air, counter-intuitive as that may seem.

[IgTerminals]

God damn it. People cannot be trusted with that account. It's OK, next time I go to Ant's I will get Rose back on the case and prop it up again.

Also my job recently ended and I am once again temporarily unemployed. This undoubtedly means my Streetfighter game will level up significantly over the next couple of weeks. If anyone is doing afternoon things or has random days off during the week then I would like to hear about it. I am at that stage where I still wake up at the crack of dawn as if to go to work, then look for/apply for jobs for a while, then realise I have quite a lot of day still available. I intend to fill some of this time with fightings.

I is off for next four days, and will be attempting to play this game again like I did when I was off work for four months at end of last year.

I'll be on in couple hours. I'll fit it around packing to move and sorting wedding stuff.

[Camel]

Are you getting married, Ig? Congratulations if so.

Best Marn
Gen night
Nice day for a fight wedding

[IgTerminals]

Thank you my friend. Yeah, getting married 21st September.

[joeplus]

Camel, are you telling me you forgot my incredible Guile down-back/proposal photoshop?

Zonk Nuptials

[Camel]

Camel, are you telling me you forgot my incredible Guile down-back/proposal photoshop?

Zonk Nuptials

I'm guessing so. I have the memory of a goldfish. On the plus side, that gives you a good excuse for a re-post.

[DC]

"Can I have your (green) hand in marriage?"

[joffocakes]

Can't get on here in work today but someone on apparently combofiend has confirmed new combo trials for Ultra? I'm excited.

[joeplus]

Looks like it!

When asked if this situation would be addressed in Ultra Street Fighter 4, ComboFiend gave a quick confirmation that we will indeed see new trials, although he couldn't reveal too much at this time. "Yes, we will be working on new challenges, and we’ll have more details to share at a later date."

[mayor_mike_haggar]

I could never figure out the hawk/ryu match either. I think it was mostly because I was always throwing fireballs at atrocious distances (3/4 screen) where hawk could just jump and dive into me on reaction. But then I always found it hard to react appropriately to whether he did a dive or air normal, which I guess is a big part of the game. Also probably 3/4 screen isn't a great place for ryu to stand, maybe chucking fireballs a bit closer so that they're harder to react to would be better. Also I could never get the hang of punishing condor dive, since if you block it at different heights, then some punishes do/don't work. Though I think walk up sweep is always an option. As is raw ultra. And maybe a fireball.

I no longer play this videogame.

[joeplus]

First there was Saltybet, then there was Twitch Plays Pokemon. And then...

http://www.twitch.tv/twitch_fights_itself

It completely doesn't work at the moment, but maybe they'll fix it.

[IgTerminals]

Anyone around for fights?

[sith]

Those match-up rankings are missing Juri vs Hawk and Gouken vs Hawk.

Probably rare to see such fights happen at a high level.

[mayor_mike_haggar]

Oh God juri hawk is impossible. Especially at the start of the match and the big guy has no meter. If the juri knows zoning well enough you're helpless until you've somehow got a bar through blocking fireballs.

[Qazimod]

Mm, Hawk kind of needs to get in, and Juri probably doesn't need to do much to keep him out. I guess if the Hawk is patient they can just wait for the Juri to do something dumb, but they might be waiting a while. Unless it's me playing Juri.

[IgTerminals]

I'd really like to play someone at this game.