Ultra Street Fighter IV

[mayor_mike_haggar]

Why can you still not access twitch archives on their app. Combined with android deciding that flash isn't worth the bother it makes twitch essentially useless on a mobile or android tablet. They need to sort that.

[joeplus]

I tried to watch some of his First Attack videos, which people say are a great learning resource, but my god they are looooooooooooong. Heart in the right place and all that, but it bugs me when people think long and verbose content is automatically more worthwhile (this is a general problem I have with the internet).

Edit: I hope that didn't come off as a slight against the regular science megaposts and match reports in this thread. They are both long and excellent.

[Plopboy]

Why can you still not access twitch archives on their app. Combined with android deciding that flash isn't worth the bother it makes twitch essentially useless on a mobile or android tablet. They need to sort that.

Yes, iOS is the same too

[ah]

Yeah Joe, I mean I say I'm warming to him but I'm still not going to go near a solo Chen stream archive. I'm not crazy.

[Qazimod]

I tried to watch some of his First Attack videos, which people say are a great learning resource, but my god they are looooooooooooong. Heart in the right place and all that, but it bugs me when people think long and verbose content is somehow more worthwhile (this is a general problem I have with the internet).

Mm, I don't mind James Chen all that much and the First Attack videos are a pretty good effort at explaining things, but you just know that someone like desk could make some videos explaining the same principles and they'd be much slicker and tighter in terms of production and length.

[Nate Dogg III]

I tried to watch some of his First Attack videos, which people say are a great learning resource, but my god they are looooooooooooong. Heart in the right place and all that, but it bugs me when people think long and verbose content is automatically more worthwhile (this is a general problem I have with the internet).

Edit: I hope that didn't come off as a slight against the regular science megaposts and match reports in this thread. They are both long and excellent.

Totally agree, though obviously given the day job I would say that. I think the 25-minute Excellent Adventures limit is pretty much perfect and I'm always put off by stuff that's too long because you just know there's going to be tons of waffle in there.

That said I'd quite like to watch the Ghandi analysis just to see if Chen walks back his 'Like I always say, why block if you can uppercut' insanity.

[palaver]

So this ESGN Fight Night thing is incredibly embarrassing in so many ways, but the actual games have been pretty good. I've definitely never seen either of the match-ups that have been on so far anywhere else. And wow Xian is desperate to dodge Infiltration and Ryan Hart.

I can't believe how much more I end up watching this stupid game than playing it.

[TommyG]

So this ESGN Fight Night thing is incredibly embarrassing in so many ways, but the actual games have been pretty good. I've definitely never seen either of the match-ups that have been on so far anywhere else. And wow Xian is desperate to dodge Infiltration and Ryan Hart.

I can't believe how much more I end up watching this stupid game than playing it.

It's massively cheesy isn't it. I chuckled to myself at my own post in the comments as Xian was just about to beat Mike Ross...

[ah]

Man, I know before I start that this post's going to be a downer but I'm going to post it anyway - sorry. I try not to be a hater (obviously I make an exception for James Chen), but I kind of think stuff like that ESGN thing is something it's worth hating on quite vocally, so here goes. I know the players/community faces involved are just some dudes trying to make enough money to carry on being awesome at fighting games, and if they can't do that then some of the stuff they broadcast will just stop existing, so I'm not hating on any one person involved in this specific event, but I feel like the whole thing is just dangerous and they/we shouldn't be anywhere near as excited as we apparently are about "growing" the fighting game community if it means playing ball with people who want our events to look like this one. For me "cheesy" is nowhere near the biggest problem with a product that

• splits the community into the bankable names who get to play and the rest of the world who just provide their eyeballs to the advertisers (not sure if I need to elaborate on the potential repercussions of this should it become an acceptable way to run major events but it's late so I'll leave it for now)
• foists worse-than-TV-sports commentary on the audience, apparently oblivious to the fact that the community has developed a great toolset for discussing fighting games and a much higher quality of discourse in general around what's actually happening in a match
• uses high-profile members of the community to try and sell advertising space/other consumer products only vaguely related to the business of actually playing a fighting game, on behalf of an organisation that sits outside that community, thereby funnelling money out of the community rather than into it
• features canned applause (I mean, really?)

It's so far away from the culture of competing to win against all comers, communicating with others because you're excited about playing the game and sharing videos to entertain and educate your peers that it's barely recognisable to me as part of the same scene. But even more than that it just reeks of a packaging that encourages the majority of the audience to just sit and watch rather than actually play - leave that to the "pro" players - while at the same time dialling down the quality of the thing they're watching. I worry that if people demonstrate that this is an attractive product to them then we'll see more of the same appearing over time, including all the downsides above (okay, maybe not the canned applause every time), and the quality and quantity of our existing products (community-run tournaments) will diminish as a direct result.

There you go. Not only a downer, but also far too high-minded a topic for discussing in relation to a children's videogame. I'll be back tomorrow with screencaps of ragemail to make up for it :-)

[palaver]

There seem to be StarCraft 2 eeeee-sports teams imploding all over the place at the moment, so quite how workable a model it is anyway is probably up for debate.

Anyway, a little earlier I drunkenly "reaction" Last Dread Dusted through a fireball at a critical point to take a ranked game, earning me several points. I of course immediately retired from ever playing again.

[joeplus]

I can see your point Alistarr. I was going to provide a sort of devil's advocate comparing it to Sky Sports footie, in that there's the big flashy showpiece nonsense that everyone enjoys, but football is still alive and well at lower levels. Then I remembered that actually Sky have done lots of things to genuinely fuck up football and we should remember that.

Of course, just like Sky Sports, I may well end up watching it for the matches.

[mayor_mike_haggar]

I don't understand what the rationale behind making something like this is. Childrens fighting video games are relatively niche, but they have a very engaged and sophisticated fanbase by and large, so why not make something that actually caters to them while at the same time welcoming new people along? The commentators especially. For all James Chen's faults, at least he has a go at letting any potential new people understand what's going on in a match, understand why certain decisions are being made and has a go at explaining technical terms. That's how you engage an audience surely, by not talking down to them, but by trying to educate them. It's like when you hear some of the commentators at the big e sports events commentating over street fighter and they're clearly clueless, which annoys me because they can't adequately explain what's happening, and it probably sounds bad to people who don't know much, because you can always spot bad commentary.

Then again, I don't think anyone's ever made money off any street fightery thing like this, with the adverts and that, because how big will the audience really be? I expect more ppv style things like maybe topanga league to work, and that's probably not so bad, because when things are directly funded via fans instead of advertisers, then the fans generally get a bigger say in what goes on.

I am 29 years old and have played street fighter twice in the last 2 months.

[Sir DangerM]

I'm going to Tokyo this weekend. What's the best arcade there for Street Fighter action? My Gief is pretty rusty these days but when in Rome...

[imp]

Uhh, I remember there being a lot in the big Akihabara arcades, either the Taito Game Station or Club Sega... possibly both. Have fun!

[Nate Dogg III]

There's a great Club Sega in west Shinjuku with a big basement full of fightmans. Pretty good Taito Station in east Shinjuku from which I stole an excellent ashtray. Still feel guilty about that but it really is a great ashtray.

[imp]

It was different from one of the standard silver jobbies? Post pix plz!

[Camel]

There's a great Club Sega in west Shinjuku with a big basement full of fightmans.

This one. I had the best Street Fighting time here.

I think this is it:

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=club+sega+arcade+shinjuku&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&channel=np&ie=UTF-8&ei=0PXoUsSAJaXn7Aan_oDYCg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ

Mentioned here also:

http://www.orochinagi.com/gamer-guide-japan/shinjuku-arcades-guide-map

[Nate Dogg III]

Watching this ESGN thing. Cringe. Tasteless keeps saying Gen with a soft G.

[strawdonkey]

There's a place called "Battle Arena" in Shinjuku too, which is where I played the most during the location tests. Was almost all punching mans game in there.

[Camel]

It's the same place. In the basement of Club Sega.

[strawdonkey]

Oh it's the same place

This is embarrassing.

[JLM]

Played many many fightings at SFO House #2 last night. Mostly ranked, both on PC and Xbox. I played Chun all evening and won the majority of my matches. Also did a bit of lab work against Blanka. I need to go for jab - jab - cr. mk xx EX legs for my crouching Blanka hit confirm. Not that easy to do but it's one I need to practise. Also discovered that low short - low short xx EX legs isn't a combo on crouching Blanka. Not especially important as if you've opened him up with low shorts he probably won't be crouching, but it is indicative of just how ridiculous his hurtboxes are. Also, against most of the cast you can do cr. jab - cr. jab - low short - low short xx EX legs, but that's inconsistent against Blanka as well. He's such a dick!

Oh, and I did lots and lots of lab experimentation with the Ultra Mod for the PC version. My goodness that was fun.

Tings I remember enjoying:

Ryu

Holy shit that jumping mp xx tatsu buff is so much fun. I played as Ryu messing around with that alone for a full forty minutes, such is the potential for creativity that buff allows. What makes it a million times better than Gouken's version is that Ryu's non-EX air tatsus don't stay in the air. This means you can cancel the first hit of jumping MP into tatsu and get to the ground way before your opponent. Also, because you stop the second hit of jumping MP coming out, you get to keep that extra juggle potential and can follow up with absolutely anything you like. One of the more excellent things I discovered was:

Air to air jumping MP xx LK tatsu - > Juggle with medium punch DP - > FADC - > air to air jumping MP xx EX tatsu - > juggle with ultra 1 in the corner.

It is the fucking BEST combo. Oh my goodness, that buff is godlike.

Ken

The walk speed is crazy. Didn't spend a lot of time with him aside from that, but he was almost keeping pace with Chun across the ground, which is nuts.

Honda

Invincible EX Ochio is huge. Managed to use it like Abel's EX TT where you can anti-air safe jumps with it. More punishable EX headbutt is very welcome.

Makoto

You've all seen it at the location tests, but that EX fukiage into jump cancel tings on standing opponents is lots and lots of fun. I quite liked finding ways to end the juggle with EX Oroshi for maximum slamdunkery, but it's obviously more about the corner carry and reset potential. Good stuff.

Dudley

The hitbox buffs are crazy. I expect Dudley to be quite a problem in Ultra. Rose doing damage is fun. Towards + fierce knocking down when it anti-airs is the best.

Gouken

Cr. mp xx fireball into tings is so great. Also being able to do hit confirms into EX tatsu and jab palm to get damage from light attacks is very welcome. EX tatsu consistently hitting crouchers is the buff every Gouken player wanted and it is glorious. A wake up that isn't suicide and real combos and hit confirms were all Gouken was lacking and now he has both.

Dee Jay

Man, too many buffs, Dee Jay is much much better. You can FADC regular machine gun upper and link afterwards. The buffed back + fierce counter hit juggles are lovely. Far standing MP buff is ridiculous. That move was already great in 2012! Faster crouching short is really noticeable too. Oh, and knee shot is insane! You can still combo if it hits at head height, as if it wasn't an annoying enough move already.

Dan

Close roundhouse as a command normal took some getting used to. Fierce DP reaching further makes his more damaging BnB combo less character specific, which is excellent. Oh, and getting big chunks o'meter on taunts was fun too.

Sakura

Jump fierce nerf is great. If it's timed/spaced correctly it's still good, but you have to think and mix it up with jump roundhouse and not just do it brainlessly. We tested it against Rufus crouching medium punch, and if Rufus got the button out in time he would either trade or win unless Sakura hit fierce at the absolutely perfect moment. Seems about right.

Oni

Better focus range, FADC-able DP, faster sweep, faster step kick. Pretty pretty good.

Juri

Standing jab buff is great, though it still whiffs on crouchers in some situations. 5f cr. mk is crazy as it was already great and gives her the lowest of low profiles. Not being able to dive kick on backwards jumps is very welcome. Sorry Qazi! Jump fierce not causing a knockdown is a huge buff. Was getting big damage from her corner 50/50 that she couldn't get before. Oh, and far standing MP being special cancellable is surprisingly great. That move was useless before but is now very handy. Oh, and they fixed that glaring Feng Shui Engine oversight too. Basically, last time they buffed all her normals they forgot to apply the changes when she's in ultra 1, so a lot of her buttons get worse when she activates. This isn't the case anymore. Good. Oh, not being able to use parry to prevent chip death kind of sucks though. Mostly buffs regardless, and I agree with Alioune's assessment that she seems very strong indeed.

Chun

Flip kick is back! Tried it against Honda's jumping MP (which is buffed in this version, absurdly) and I got a trade almost every time! A trade! A glorious, wondrous trade! Damage in his favour but positioning very much in mine. So pleased with that. SBK knockdowns are great, the little bit of extra Kikosho damage is much more pronounced than you'd think and EX fireball - > FADC - > EX legs - > Ultra is a really fun new combo.

Sagat

Far standing short being cancellable is so good that I'm surprised they gave it back to him. Full ultra 1 damage in the corner is huge as well.

Cammy

Still a threat but a more manageable one. I think taking away chained crouching shorts is quite a huge nerf and one that Cammy players should be more upset about. But who honestly cares about upsetting Cammy players of all people?

Cody

Oh boy Cody is fun. The walk speed and back dash buffs feel great and it's cool that you can FADC regular zonk. However, the most fun and unexpected buff is that ability to juggle with knife normals after jab criminal upper. Launch him up and shank him for the reset. Yes. Yes indeed.

Guy

Lots of really strong buffs for Guy. They've buffed the already excellent far standing roundhouse, so that's an even more useful anti-air than it was and completely makes up for the cr.mp nerf. Better recovery on run - > stop is where it's at though. His pressure was already annoying and now it's legit as well.

Hakan

Cancellable cr. mp is fantastic, and gives him another much needed option when he doesn't have oil. The buffed jump roundhouse hitbox is mental and if it is as good as this in the real final build I will be amazed. You can do the deepest of cross ups that are frankly broken, especially as his jumping MK has been made into a legit cross up. Nothing but big buffs for Hakkers, now can some top player please main him full time and show everybody how much of a threat he is?

Yang

Yang is in my top five characters who I think deserves to be good, and in this version he is back! If you do jab - > jab - > Cr.mk - > medium upkicks and then immediately jump towards, you have the dive kick in front/jump mk behind 50/50 that he had in AE and it is just lovely. He also has his resets off standing MK jump cancel back. Plus his footsies are even better and he does damage now. If I can get my stupid hands to master rekka FADC combos I will be playing a lot of Yang in ultra and you should too. I love you Yang, you floppy haired goon you.

Guile

Being able to consistently do combos with Guile without practising is very nice. I got cr. jab - > cr. MP xx sonic boom - > FADC - > cr. jab - > cr. jab - > cr. mp xx EX flash kick like it was nothing. Cr. MP into Ultra 1 is so silly.

Rufus

Far standing MP xx EX Galactic tornado - > FADC - > target combo - > Ultra is a fun thing. Far standing MP buffered into EX GT is actually quite a legit footsies tool in the right match up. Fun buff. Tested EX messiah against the usual suspects doing meaty low attacks and they all had to eat the whole thing. Good stuff.

Vega

Easy mode hit confirms are fun, as is having a legit DP. Punishing fireballs with Super is the real fun thing though. Nice to see that move having a function as it does loads of damage.

Fei Long

Hahahaha look at his stubby little rekkas. Hahahahahahahahah. Aha. Fuck you Fei.

T. Hawk

Oh boy oh boy. I can see why Sith has been enjoying playing the Ultra mod. Ted Hawk is glorious in this. Condor spire input change is massive as you can react whilst walking forwards just like Gief can with green hand and just like the move was intended to be used. LK Condor spire is insanely fast, and cr. MK xx LK spire is a combo! Also the walk speed is terrific. Brilliant, brilliant buffs. A much brighter future ahead for Tomas I feel.

Didn't have time to put in any serious investigative work with the rest of the cast yet but will be back on it soon. Feeling very positive about all the changes I've tried so far though.

[Qazimod]

Juri

Not being able to dive kick on backwards jumps is very welcome. Sorry Qazi!

Oh, not being able to use parry to prevent chip death kind of sucks though.

Nnnngh. The positives sound good, and I'm sure I'll be happy once I've adjusted to everything. It's either that or switch mains and call myself a massive fraud.

[joffocakes]

Just beat thon Pro Fluke's Elf in Ranked. Dan Kicks are a huge hassle for Elf since they's pretty safe on block but also break armour to kill his EX runs AND they chase backdashes. Plus Dan's crumple hurtbox saved me from RSF yet again!

[Nate Dogg III]

Fei Long

Hahahaha look at his stubby little rekkas. Hahahahahahahahah. Aha. Fuck you Fei.

Lovely writeup, dear boy. I'd get on this mod if I honestly thought I'd play Street Fighter again. Don't think I've touched it since Heggwest, really. We had a couple of lunchtime sessions at work but it's been replaced by Nidhogg.

[Choo]

Yang

Yang is in my top five characters who I think deserves to be good, and in this version he is back! If you do jab - > jab - > Cr.mk - > medium upkicks and then immediately jump towards, you have the dive kick in front/jump mk behind 50/50 that he had in AE and it is just lovely. He also has his resets off standing MK jump cancel back. Plus his footsies are even better and he does damage now. If I can get my stupid hands to master rekka FADC combos I will be playing a lot of Yang in ultra and you should too. I love you Yang, you floppy haired goon you.

:)

I watched the ESGN thing. Why the Dog? Why?

[Tofu]

Fight Night - fights were fun but having girls dressed as schoolgirls, so baaaaad.

[mayor_mike_haggar]

The incongruity of that statement and your current avatar is quite delightful.

[Tofu]

The incongruity of that statement and your current avatar is quite delightful.

But it was a kind of silly to have them there, if anything they should have had a female presenter instead of the kid. It was just kind of cringey, and while I love boobies there's a time and place.

[Plopboy]

Just beat thon Pro Fluke's Elf in Ranked. Dan Kicks are a huge hassle for Elf since they's pretty safe on block but also break armour to kill his EX runs AND they chase backdashes. Plus Dan's crumple hurtbox saved me from RSF yet again!

I love this and hate this at the same time, my small brain is so confused.