Ultra Street Fighter IV

[Plopboy]

Rumoured changes for Ultra

Seth:

• Can no longer special cancel Tanden Engine from normals.
• Seth's Dragon Punch invincibility frames are being nerfed. (FChamp says there is a universal change to uppercut invincibility frames in which everyone's DP will be the same.)
• Jumping Heavy Kick no longer crosses up.
• Wall jump range reduced.

Fei Long:

• Light Punch Rekka travel distance reduced.
• Focus Attack and Chicken Wings remaining the same.
• Crouching Light Kick now 4 frames of start up.
• Tenshin (command throw) now faster start up.

Ryu:

• Ryu's crouching Medium Kick, Hadouken will be a true block string.

Blanka:

• Crouching Medium Kick has more frame advantage on hit. Can now link 2 cr. MKs in a combo.
• Improved crouching Light Kick (FChamp mentions it will not require a 1-frame link to combo into itself anymore.)
• More recovery on Beast Ball.

Universal system changes:

• There will be no more FADC-ing uppercuts after the 2nd hit is blocked.
• All characters will now be -3 after an uppercut, FADC, dash forward.
• Unblockables have been removed.

from here http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/aug/27/seth-can-no-longer-special-cancel-tanden-engine-every-characters-dp-have-same-number-invincible-frames-and-more-rumored-usf4-changes/

[imp]

Ultra sounds weird.

Ultra Turbo when it comes out will be cool, I guess.

[IgTerminals]

Oooh yeah. Liking the sound of a lot of those changes, especially the universal changes.

So excited.

Happy face.

Apparently not released til March tho.

Sad face.

[joffocakes]

Sounds good to me. Less mindless pressure from uppercut maniacs. Though that also means a blocked uppercut FADC is a free Ultra for Gief, right?

Blanka getting easier links is nice. I hate him though. So much.

I wonder if they're suggesting all non EX dragon punches won't be invincible in startup? That would be wild news for someone like Dudley who can suddenly be more confident in meaty pressure and counterhit fishing.

I really want the game already.

[imp]

I think the uppercut FADC after first hit only is a little odd. It doesn't really affect me since that's what I've always had to do with Ryu and latterly Adon, and I guess it's a change intended to hurt Akuma more than anything (although isn't he already minus on block?) but it seems a little odd in that you're taking away the time for middle tier Ken to confirm whether an uppercut is connecting or not before dashing towards or away, when dashing forwards now will be universally punishable if the uppercut is blocked.

I guess they're gearing the game up to be more read-heavy, trying to take out some of the turtley aspect of it? Although saying that they made Ryu's cr.MK x Fireball a real blockstring, which is a weird, huge buff, so maybe they're not trying to rule out turtling? Who knows, it all seems pretty inconsistent to me!

Anyway, aside from a few changes, like Dhalsim's one button half-screen focus breaker, I think Ultra sounds pretty good on the whole. Oh except I just remembered Rolento is coming. Damn.

[Plopboy]

I think Ultra sounds pretty good on the whole. Oh except I just remembered Rolento is coming. Damn.

I know, he has a stick and grenades, how broken is that. The pokey poker that he is.

[robdood]

BTW ggs to the PC Bros I fought with last night. Man its been aaaages! I was a proper mashy noob, and had completely forgotten ranges of moves and stuff. I also kept whiffing chun's U2 input and jumping backwards

Choo's tech for strings and combos made me want to vomit. I'll never be that patient!!

Gutted Nashwan couldn't join! I need to work on some BnB with my favourite Chinese international supercop in time for the next session.

[ah]

I think the uppercut FADC after first hit only is a little odd. It doesn't really affect me since that's what I've always had to do with Ryu and latterly Adon, and I guess it's a change intended to hurt Akuma more than anything (although isn't he already minus on block?) but it seems a little odd in that you're taking away the time for middle tier Ken to confirm whether an uppercut is connecting or not before dashing towards or away, when dashing forwards now will be universally punishable if the uppercut is blocked.

If something is -3 on block can your opponent mash uppercut in response or do they need to time it?

[imp]

They can mash I believe. I think Adon's minus three as it is anyway, as I'm forever being poked by jabs after FADCing forwards after a blocked uppercut (and maybe Ryu too, I can't recall right now). It's probably a good thing to unify this aspect of the game - it's annoying when you think you should be able to punish something only to have it fail because the burden of character-specific knowledge was on the person playing against, rather than using said character.

[imp]

Okay, did a little labwork. Ryu seems to be -2 on block at the moment. So at the moment MP uppercut FADC forwards MP uppercut wins against mashed MP and HP uppercuts, but loses to EX.

Also one thing they should definitely nerf is the volume on startup on the PC version. Woe betide anyone booting up that game wearing headphones, the announcer is the loudest man in the universe.

[joeplus]

Same on 360! I turned the volume down in the options but it only seems to apply after the startup screen. So I turned it up again, I just have to remember to use my remote.

So annoying that games are best at different volumes. I play SFIV at 16 but Red Dead Redemption needs like 28 for the dialogue to be heard properly.

[Qazimod]

Rumoured changes for Ultra

Fei Long:

• Crouching Light Kick now 4 frames of start up.

Ha, fuck you Curtis-

• Tenshin (command throw) now faster start up.

...goddamnit.

[imp]

Tenshin being faster is a good thing actually! It means that bullshit setup of his won't work any more! The one I can't even remember how to do! You know, that one, which he does after that move on block and it's really hard to react to. You know. That setup? Yeah? Cool.

[Nate Dogg III]

As a Ken player that uppercut FADC thing saddens me greatly.

My Street Fighter IV volume setting is 10. On topic, Netflix Breaking Bad is 28.

[JLM]

Is there any source for this latest list of changes aside from Filipinochamp speculating? Some of them seem a bit drastic and, as imp says, a little inconsistent. I'm reluctant to believe them until Combofiend or someone else who is genuinely in the know gives confirmation. In spite of that, I haven't posted a big theory fighter spiel for a while, so I will rambble on about them regardless.

Joffles, uppercut fadc towards is already a free ultra for Gief. People still forget this against Snake Eyes from time to time and he's always ready to punish it. That change would make it a free SPD as well though, which would be pretty scary as he'd have a big punish option even if he picks Ultra 2.

Uppercut FADC dash forward being -3 generally is an interesting one that I'm not sure needs to be universal but might be nice for some characters. For much more offense-oriented shotos like Evil Ryu or Ken, if they want to commit two bars to go for a DP counter hit set up I don't necessarily think they should be punishable on block. Two bars is a decent chunk of resources to use. The first hit only uppercut change really does seem needlessly harsh on Ken and, although there are a number of changes I'd like to see for Akuma, I don't think that's the right one. Both of those changes should surely be looked at on a case by case basis rather than a system-wide thing. Same wth uppercut invincibility I'd say, I think making them all the same is a very stupid idea.

Fei

Fei's cr. lk changing to 4 frames is one that has been mentioned by Combofiend and the the reduced rekka range has been demonstrated in a video, so they're both quite likely changes and I'm a big fan of both of them. As it stands, Fei's Rekkas are up there with the most stupid things in the game. A safe poke that covers half the screen, whiff punishes everything, builds meter and leads to a knockdown and a corner carry on hit for almost no risk. It makes a mockery of the footsies game in the same way as dive kicks, but it's even more obnoxious because Fei is such a solid footsies based character himself. Yun has to derp his way in because his buttons are quite limited and his whole game is based on rushdown and mix ups. Fei is an extremely well rounded and solid character who also has a move that wins footsies for free.

The cr. short change is also a fine one. Yang's standing LK in AE was quite rightly cited as one of the most broken things ahout him, but the range on Fei's cr.lk is similarly silly for a 3 frame move. They gave Cody a ridiculously long range 3f short because he has very little else when under pressure, but for Fei it's completely unnecessary.

I assume the tenshin change would be to eliminate the cr. jab EX tenshin block set up yeah, so it's actually a nerf disguised as a buff, like giving Wolverine Swiss Cheese in Mahvel. I've said plenty of times that I'd rather see Tenshin removed altogether, but this is the next best thing as it's by far the most common and effective use of the move. At least if you land tenshin in other situations you've usually earned it by convincing the opponent to go very very defensive.

Seth

I've always thought with Seth that cancelling normals into Tanden engine should cost some resources rather than be eliminated completely. If you could make it cost half a stock I think that'd be ideal, but that's a bit of an unrealistic change. As much as I dislike Seth, I actually think taking it away completely may be a bit too severe.

Also, as much as I think his jumping normals are the biggest thing wrong with him as a character, I think that particular nerf is the only one I wouldn't want for him. He's a pure mix up character, so having a potent and dangerous cross up is fine by me. If the problem is that it's a roundhouse then nerf the damage or (more significantly) the stun.

If that move is to be changed I'd like it to be a less effective air to air so he has to read that an air to air is coming and commit to jumping MP. As it stands you can jump with roundhouse and it doesn't matter what the opponent does, whereas most characters have to pick the right button for the right situation. In terms of nerfing a jump-in attack, I'd like them to leave the jump roundhouse but reduce the frame advantage on his dive kick on block, and possibly even on hit. It's really difficult to anti-air and is one half of some very very potent 50/50 mix ups, so I think if the opponent successfully blocks the dive kick they should get at least a little reward for it, even if it's just an opportunity to back dash away or something.

Wall jump and DP I'm not bothered about.

Ryu

I personally think AE 2012 Ryu is perfectly balanced and that he doesn't need this buff at all. Poor old Dudley might as well pack it up and go home if that buff is real

Blanka

The cr. mk buff would be absolutely lovely. The cr. lk buff would make sense, though I do somewhat agree with Combofiend's logic on those 1f light attack links in that it's cool to see character specialists who have mastered them as it sets them apart from players who just dabble with the character. I love seeing Vega players who can consistently do jab jab strong ex barcelona and I think it may take away some of the magic if they make it easier. I think making some of those 1 framers into 2 framers is the right move, but I do have a bit of a soft spot for them as they are now as well. I spose I'd be happy either way then.

Other than that I don't think they should do anything to Blanka but they seem intent on having a little fondle of his balls in every iteration.

There endeth my thoughts, though once again I'm not convinced that some of those changes are anything more than rumours.

[IgTerminals]

I'm sure I read a while ago that they were looking at making blocked Dp FADC forward more punishable, and I remember it being an officialish suggestion.

Can't for the life of me remember where I read it tho. Wasn't there something said by someone like Combofiend after the Unity suggestions but before the Ultra announcement?

Maybe I drempt it. I do remember being excited by that change straight away.

Time will tell.

Jellum you wonderful man: I know you're busy, but was there talk of helpful grainy videos?

[Nate Dogg III]

Worth bearing in mind that we are still a good six months from release, and just because something's in the current build doesn't mean it's in the final one.

If Champ's tweeting about it then they're involving top players in testing and I should imagine they're just trying stuff out at this point.

[IgTerminals]

Yeah, you're right Nate, but I'm excited enough to wanna talk about changes that don't exist yet.

[ah]

Stopping people FADCing in the second hit of an uppercut had been mooted by people in the past but only really in relation to it being one of Seth's more annoying tools. I've said before that I wouldn't mind if FADC was only possible on hit for all moves, so my initial reaction is "yoooooo!", but it's definitely a pretty big deal if it's real. Hopefully it works out okay once all the changes come together.

[imp]

Weirdest thing. Just beat the number 10 ranked Yun on GFWL - a brit called RiskbreakerZzz with 4090PP and 17KBP, because he just would not stop uppercutting on his wakeup. Haha. 114PP to me. This is much better than last Wednesday, when I went down from 2700PP to 2200. Back up to the 2500s! Whoop.

[IgTerminals]

Gonna be around most of the afternoon and all evening 'til 10ish tomo. Really wanna get some long sessions in with you lovely folks during that time.

On topic: everyone ok?

[JLM]

Guys, my lifelong streak of not being at school/work on my birthday ended today and the lack of activity in this thread has only compounded my misery. I am truly grateful for the norwichphotos url though, as rllmuk is on the list of forbidden sites.

GeeGees to Allystah for yesterday, though it is frightening how quickly my skills have deteroriated. The training last night helped but I have a lot more practising to do before Sunday.

Worst "everybody say happy birthday plopboy!" post ever.

[joeplus]

Happy Birthday Jellum!

I'm looking forward to your 500-word science post on how to best recieve and unwrap birthday presents, including how to hide disappointment on reaction and lots of relative-specific mixups.

[Plopboy]

Happy Birthday Jellum

[Qazimod]

HBJLM

[Lyrical Donut]

Happy birthday Jellum*!

*Plopboy

[IgTerminals]

Happy Birthday Mr Jellum, Sir.

[cale]

Happy birthday, Jellum!

[Nate Dogg III]

Happy birthday Jellingtons!

[imp]

Happy Birthday ploppum!