Ultra Street Fighter IV

[sith]

Also, anyone around today for games?

[nuskool]

Hmm, rumour is that in Ultra SFIV you can use both ultras

[joffocakes]

I dunno if I'd believe that. It would make characters like Gief too dangerous, surely? Or Gen, with his anti-air, air to air, fast and damaging comboable ground ultras. I guess it's still a matter of choosing the right one to use at the right time, but I dunno. There's probably some character or other who would be far too terrifying with both Ultras available.

[JLM]

Yeah I think that'd be very silly indeed. I did have it in my head that making both ultras available for 'sim might be a fun way to buff him, but for a lot of the cast that could be game breaking.

17: 30 here you can see the Japanese USF4 trailer:

Combofiend mentioned during the Comic-con panel that Gief's EX green hand knocks down again, so presumably they'll be reducing jab SPD range and putting him back to how he was in Super, where he I thought he was absolutely fine. They've also tweaked the regular green hands so that he has beter meterless combo options without being punishable on hit.

[nuskool]

Yeah I'm not sure if it would work (re: ultras).

2014? Seems a long time really considering.

[blipwoo]

Anyone free for some street fightin' right now? I shall be mostly playing Zangief and drinking cheap plum wine:)

[joffocakes]

They also announced during that panel that they'd consider a balance patch for Marvel? That's interesting news since a lot of people want that.

I just saw Camel's Honda pressure JLM's Ryu with remarkable ferocity then JLM did that Focus-charge-to-bait-jump then jab-shoryuken-into-ultra in the corner against him, ha.

[blipwoo]

You know, fighting JLM kinda feels like this:

Many thanks to all concerned for the beatings:) Two things I've learned so far. One: taunt more. Two: learn to tech throws, dammit. Any other advice on how not to get hit in the face so much gratefully received.

also: wtf? cammy has an air throw. Who knew?

[Judgement]

Been slowly getting back into this. So after hearing the news of Ultra is kick started the fire.

So I will be back online soon, just getting back into using Dudley again.

[blipwoo]

Combofiend mentioned during the Comic-con panel that Gief's EX green hand knocks down again, so presumably they'll be reducing jab SPD range and putting him back to how he was in Super, where he I thought he was absolutely fine. They've also tweaked the regular green hands so that he has beter meterless combo options without being punishable on hit.

...Celebratory lariat!

OHHHHYYYEEEAHHHH!!!

Went looking for street fightering on youtube and ran into this again. I know it's been posted before, but really, you can never watch it too many times:)

What Guile really needs in ultra is a "Just get on the plane!" taunt.

[JLM]

We must have Dudley mirrors soon then.

GGs Blipwoo, Joffles and Camel.

Blipwoo, I have Gief tips:

Defense:

Don't use wake up lariat so often unless they're jumping in on you. It's really not a very good reversal outside of anti-airing because it loses to grabs and is very punishable if baited. EX green hand is also not a great wake up option. It's pretty slow, it also loses to grabs and is again very punishable. I was doing loads of grabs against you to try and demonstrate how your wake up options would lose to it.

Gief's best wake up options are to block or occasionally go for a back dash and then SPD their whiffed normal/grab etc. His options are poor but the trade off is that you have loads of health, people will be scared to try a lot their mix ups on you and you can lariat/blizzard jumps if they haven't used the correct safe jump timing.

SPDs:

There were several instances where you'd do a tick SPD set up or mash SPD out of a block string/combo and it'd be the jab one. In these instances you should always use the fierce one as you're giving up loads of damage there. The jab one's benefit is its obscene range, but when you're closer there's no need to use it.

The rule of thumb for grab punishes with Gief is:

Long range: Jab SPD

Close range: Fierce SPD

Point blank: Kick SPD

If you've set up the grab with three jabs and you've been pushed out too far then of course use the jab one to cover the distance, but whenever possible try to land the fierce as it does huge, huge damage.

Getting in

Gief requires a lot of patience and he also requires a varied approach. He has lots of tools to try and inch his way in and I'll go through a few of them:

1) Focus dash towards. Passing through fireballs and also absorbing limbs. It's worth practising focus dashing through attacks and punishing with SPD, but even in instances where you don't have time to SPD punish it's a good way to steadily gain ground.

2) EX green hand. Again this goes through fireballs, so against projectile characters if you have an EX bar you just need to inch into EX green hand range and wait to rect to it. As tempting as it is wth the distance it covers and the good invincibility, try not to throw it out at random as it's extremely punishable and is also a big waste of precious meter if you whiff it or have it blocked. As soon as you don't have meter against a projectile character they'll be a lot more confident in their ability to zone you out, so try not to throw it away.

3) Normals that move you forwards:

- Standing roundhouse

- Offensive crouch MK

- Sweep

These can all be used to get you closer to the opponent without jumping, dashing or even walking. They can also be used as handy measuring sticks. For instance, if your standing roundhouse makes contact with the opponent (hit or block) it means you're at about max jab SPD range and can threaten the grab.

4) Pokes

You don't always need to be walking/jumping/dashing towards. As you make your way in, use some of your better normals to bat away their hits or at least trade with them. Standing medium punch is a fantastic button for this. Both standing and crouching jab are solid and your standing light kick is great as well. Standing MK isn't bad either but is not as safe as the others.

5) Walking and blocking

This is something new Gief players don't do enough. Everyone is scared of Gief and it's very easy to make a scared player corner themselves by doing very little and just patiently plodding your way in. Gief can take a lot of chip damage and he can eat plenty of stray hits too. You have 99 seconds and it only takes Gief 10 seconds to kill once he gets in, always keep that in mind and don't feel obliged to rush in and maul all the time.

6) Jumping

All of that said, you do still need to jump with Gief. You have to let the opponent know that you're coming at them from every possible angle, so if they get too comfortable with the ground game you might surprise them with a jump. Even if you dont hit them, a blocked jump in is still a win for Gief as it puts you in scary range and they have to start guessing.

Your primary jump in options with Gief are:

- Jumping fierce. This has great range and is perfect for tagging someone if you're juming in over their fireball and none of your other normals will reach.

- Jumping MK and jumping MP. These have shorter range but hit a bit lower down and can stuff/trade with normal anti-airs. Use these when you're a bit closer and the oppoent has less time to react and anti-air.

- Jumping down + LK (double knees). This has two main purposes. Up close or after a knockdown you can use it for tick grabs as it does a tiny amount of blockstun/hitstun. At longer range you should use it to try and bait an anti-air out of your opponent. There are jump ranges where if you jump with fierce and the opponent sticks out an anti-air you'll get hit, but if you use the double knees their move will whiff and you can land and SPD. Once again, even if you don't have time to get the SPD, you'll still have the chance to gain some ground.

Post-knockdown

Once you've got the knockdown with Gief you have so many options.

Gief has the option to go for a grab, a command grab, a meaty normal, a low meaty normal, a tick grab, a tick command grab, normals into more normals to try and stop them jumping away, a cross up, a fake cross up, a cross up straight into a grab, a cross up into a tick grab, an empty jump into a command grab, an empty jump into a tick grab, an EX green hand to chase their backdash, tick into siberian blizzard, empty jump siberian blizzard, empty jump into nothing, simply nothing at all to try and bait them, a back dash to try and bait them...

... That's not even an extensive list. Try to think about what you did last time, how the opponent responded. Has the opponent been constantly jumping because they're scared of the grab or have you convinced them to sit still? So much of Gief's game is about observing the opponent's habits/tendencies and then making just a handful of strong reads that reward you with huge damage and I personally find it extremely satisfying when I get it right.

Next time we play we can run a series of me using the same character the whole time if that would help. I think it's extra difficult to learn Gief when the match up keeps changine and the opponent's escape options are different every time.

[blipwoo]

Great stuff, thanks:) I'll try to work this into my matches.

tbh I preferred fighting various characters, it made a nice change from ranked (now with 80% more Oni!), and regardless of the character i'm facing, I'll be able to work on my defensive game and try to resist the temptation to flail at buttons. Also, my proudest moment tonight was figuring out how to stuff that Blanka ultra, which I'd always had to sit and block before.

[Nate Dogg III]

I heard that when Infiltration and Laugh check their phones between matches they're actually reading old Jason posts.

[hegg]

Would having both ultras available be so messed up? I'd love to have that option for fun local play. Can we talk about this more please, and tell me why it's so mad? I mean yeah, I guess it would kind of make all characters a load better, but isn't that ok? I really haven't thought it through much, at all. Can you all discuss it, with technicals, and then later I'll pop back in and swear a bit. Thaaaaanks.

Joffo, and anyone else interested - I put lots more Aldiss books on the site last week, including the collection I called out originally as being my favourite, "Space, Time and Nathaniel". NO PRESSURE TO BUY IT OR ANYTHING, just thought I'd let you know.

[imp]

Does anyone know the real story about what happened between laugh and infil? ComboRoss alluded to a bust-up, but Seth seemed totally out the loop.

[Camel]

Thanks for the lobby fun, JLM, Joffo and Blipwoo. I haven't managed to work any of JLM's tips into my Ryu game yet as you saw so he's almost as bad as my hilarious Rufus. But hey, I use different characters these days, guys. They're mostly crap, but it's still a big achievement for me.

Yes, I can't believe I fell for that focus in the corner trap. It's basically that Aquasilk thing but with dp>Ultra instead of BRRRizzard, right?

There was an excellent moment later when I was facing JLM's Dudley with my Sim. JLM tried to take the remainder of my health with a Thunderbolt just as I dashed back and threw out an Ultra 1 giant fireball which poor Dudders dived straight into. It was totally a read.

It wasn't a read at all.

Also, I beat a Ken player the other day with just short of 5,000 PP with my feeble little Honda in two straight rounds. So much lovely damage.

[ah]

Would having both ultras available be so messed up? I'd love to have that option for fun local play. Can we talk about this more please, and tell me why it's so mad? I mean yeah, I guess it would kind of make all characters a load better, but isn't that ok? I really haven't thought it through much, at all. Can you all discuss it, with technicals, and then later I'll pop back in and swear a bit. Thaaaaanks.

Simple example: Zangief gets ultra, jumps in on you and can either air ultra you if you jump out or ground ultra you if you sit still.

It would be a big buff for some characters and a huge buff for others, and then for some it wouldn't really improve their game at all. While not necessarily totally mad, it would be a big change and would require a lot of other changes to various characters to keep them feeling balanced. And because it's such a big change that balancing would be so hard to get right and probably end up breaking some characters (in one direction or the other!).

[hegg]

Simple example: Zangief gets ultra, jumps in on you and can either air ultra you if you jump out or ground ultra you if you sit still.

It would be a big buff for some characters and a huge buff for others, and then for some it wouldn't really improve their game at all. While not necessarily totally mad, it would be a big change and would require a lot of other changes to various characters to keep them feeling balanced. And because it's such a big change that balancing would be so hard to get right and probably end up breaking some characters (in one direction or the other!).

Ok, that's a really good example.

It's always made me pretty sad (read = salty) that both of Guile's ultras are rubbish. Some characters have it so good.

But anyways, in all seriousness I'd love a 'duel ultra' option for local play/endless lobbies. Potential for madness, sure, but fun.

[Rayn]

Simple example: Zangief gets ultra, jumps in on you and can either air ultra you if you jump out or ground ultra you if you sit still.

It would be a big buff for some characters and a huge buff for others, and then for some it wouldn't really improve their game at all. While not necessarily totally mad, it would be a big change and would require a lot of other changes to various characters to keep them feeling balanced. And because it's such a big change that balancing would be so hard to get right and probably end up breaking some characters (in one direction or the other!).

[Plopboy]

I just tried to have a quick search to try and find out some sort of character usage stats for SF. I could quite find what I wanted but I did find this:

Rufus - 53

Ryu - 41

Fei Long - 40

Cammy - 36

Akuma - 34

Guile - 34

Sagat - 33

C. Viper - 32

E. Honda - 27

Sakura - 25

Balrog (Boxer) - 24

Dhalsim - 23

Yun - 21

Zangief - 21

Gen - 18

Adon - 17

Guy - 16

M. Bison (Dictator) - 15

Ibuki - 11

Ken - 11

Cody - 10

Rose - 10

Abel - 9

Seth - 9

El Fuerte - 8

T. Hawk - 8

Blanka - 7

Makoto - 7

Vega (Claw) - 7

Gouken - 5

Hakan - 4

Juri - 4

Oni - 4

Evil Ryu - 3

Chun-Li - 2

Dee Jay - 2

Dudley - 2

Yang - 2

Dan - 0

Basically it is list of characters that appeared in top 8 and 16 through out all of the majors covered covered on eventhubs from May 2012 - May 2013.

More info here http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/jun/01/character-usage-statistics-last-year-super-street-fighter-4-ae-2012-major-tournaments-top-8-and-16/

Not surprising that Mr Hibiki is zero, probably due to his phone being cut off and not getting any calls, but Chun being so under used is a little surprising.

[Plopboy]

more Blanka is a troll with added Camel

[Qazimod]

17: 30 here you can see the Japanese USF4 trailer:

... and here's the trailer on its own:

[ah]

I just tried to have a quick search to try and find out some sort of character usage stats for SF. I could quite find what I wanted but I did find this:

Basically it is list of characters that appeared in top 8 and 16 through out all of the majors covered covered on eventhubs from May 2012 - May 2013.

More info here http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/jun/01/character-usage-statistics-last-year-super-street-fighter-4-ae-2012-major-tournaments-top-8-and-16/

Not surprising that Mr Hibiki is zero, probably due to his phone being cut off and not getting any calls, but Chun being so under used is a little surprising.

That list would be more useful if it didn't count players multiple times if they made top 16 multiple times. Rufus would be sitting at 2 or 3!

Cammy would still be at 36, probably.

[joffocakes]

Would having both ultras available be so messed up? I'd love to have that option for fun local play. Can we talk about this more please, and tell me why it's so mad? I mean yeah, I guess it would kind of make all characters a load better, but isn't that ok? I really haven't thought it through much, at all. Can you all discuss it, with technicals, and then later I'll pop back in and swear a bit. Thaaaaanks.

Joffo, and anyone else interested - I put lots more Aldiss books on the site last week, including the collection I called out originally as being my favourite, "Space, Time and Nathaniel". NO PRESSURE TO BUY IT OR ANYTHING, just thought I'd let you know.

Lovely; I'll have a gander come payday.

I just watched an Elite Channel replay where VRyu's Makoto faced off, and almost lost, against Jellum's Chun. Lovely stuff.

[Camel]

more Blanka is a troll with added Camel

ha excellent.

[TheShend]

Proper LOL at 0:59 in that vid Plopboy.

[JLM]

Oh I'd totally be down with both ultras being available as a fun novelty mode; just not in competitive play/ranked for reasons like the example given by Alistarr. Joffo often mentions how much fun it would be to have a bunch of dip switch style settings for local play and I would love to see it too

[joffocakes]

more Blanka is a troll with added Camel

Hold on... what the fuck is actually going on during that wedding one? And the one where the man bursts into flames? What? Excellent anyway.

Also, I had some brief games against Mr Terminals earlier before I had to boil potatoes (as that is all I can be trusted to do). Never underestimate that man's corner pressure or intelligent use of anti-air normals. Guh.

[ah]

I can always count on JLM to agree with my opinions because I get most of them from him in the first place.

I've been thinking about Marvel recently. I want to write a thing about a couple of details from Marvel at Evo but I haven't had time, and I bought the DLC characters last week but haven't played the game since then, and I'm unlikely to actually play it for at least another couple of weeks. Still, Marvel has been on my mind. If anyone wants to play in a couple of weeks, just shout.

[Camel]

*guile theme*