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Ultra Street Fighter IV

JLM

By JLM
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ah

ah

Posted
Posted

This is interesting (if you consider almost entirely useless and unnecessarily detailed information about one tiny aspect of a children's videogame to be interesting, which of course I know you do), and new to me at least: some notes from someone on SRK about how frame data isn't all that matters with regard to super punishes, and how some 2 frame supers can punish certain moves that are -1, for example, or can't punish certain moves that are -2.


The reasons super punishes are inconsistent is because the super "freeze" doesn't actually stop time but slows it down. You can see this effect in some showcase videos, where people play with the "bullet time" effect.

The problem arises because every move in the game specifies its recovery frames in terms of animation frames, not normal game frames. Animation frames play faster or slower in game depending on how Capcom coded the move. When the super freeze occurs, the opponent's animation slows down (at different time ratios, depending on the super!), and sometimes the recovery frame will "jump" into an adjacent frame (due to rounding).

So for example, imagine two moves: one move takes 10 frames to recover, and the other takes 9.5 frames to recover(because it's really 19 animation frames playing at 2x). Both moves will technically recover in 10 frames because the game will round up by waiting until the 10th frame before checking that a move has recovered. Now lets say a super freeze occurs and for arguments sake, starts the animation speed to play at 55/60x. Well the first move will recover in 10 x 55/60 = 9.17, which rounds up to 10 frames again. The second move will recover in 9.5 x 55/60=8.71 frames which now rounds up to 9 frames. The first move will still be punishable, while the second move will not.

Things get more complicated when you consider that different supers have different speed ratios, and the super freeze is only dilating time for a portion of the recovery, not the whole recovery.

This is the reason why Chun's MK super is "1f" yet it can only punish certain moves that are normally -1 on block, but can't others. Chun's mk super has a different (more advantageous) speed ratio than her HK and LK supers:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/5422397/#Comment_5422397

Gilley found similar effects for Fuerte's and Guile's supers as well.

Note that Ultras don't exhibit this problem because they completely freeze the opponent during the flash.

tl;dr - super punishes will differ both by which super is done, and which move it's trying to punish.


Earlier I said that Ultras don't exhibit this problem because the opponent is frozen during the flash. While this is true, for whatever reason, Vega's U1 alters the game's animation speed during the active frames when he flies towards the wall (i.e. before the ultra flash). This is the reason for Vega's U1 unblockable on Ibuki:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/8212137/#Comment_8212137

From here: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/188801/2-frame-punishes-the-more-you-know#latest

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joffocakes

joffocakes

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Ooh, that's soon! Same day as the Smash Bros Nintendo Direct! Captain Falcon confirmed as 6th Ultra character please.

I had a decent length set against Mr Imp on PC SSFIV AE yesterday and it was a very nice thing indeed. Lots of lovely tense moments, as there should be. Also! I played some arcade mode. I'd forgotten all about the character specific win quotes. Dan's quote after beating M Bison is this:

"Anyone with a secret base or a private army or a house must be pure evil!"

Excellent.

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Qazimod

Qazimod

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Jonster*! Divekick's just updated on my Steam list, so it looks like the AE update has dropped. Hit me up for some matches, or something. And anyone else who has it on PC.

*I would tweet him but I've given up Twitter for Lent. Also he's about the only person here I play against...

EDIT: Street Fighter

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Nate Dogg III

Nate Dogg III

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SRK chaps seem to think USF4 is launching in Japanese arcades on 8th April, possibly without Decapre for the time being.

For Capcom it was Tuesday?

Surely not - that'd give japan a two month head start on something that's only going to be out in the west a whisker before Evo. Seems a bit off.

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Jonster

Jonster

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Jonster*! Divekick's just updated on my Steam list, so it looks like the AE update has dropped. Hit me up for some matches, or something. And anyone else who has it on PC.

*I would tweet him but I've given up Twitter for Lent. Also he's about the only person here I play against...

EDIT: Street Fighter

Yup, it's the ae update. Drop me a message if you catch me on Steam! I should be on later :-)

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ah

ah

Posted
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Surely not - that'd give japan a two month head start on something that's only going to be out in the west a whisker before Evo. Seems a bit off.

It was just in their big USF4 thread in the forums based on a japanese tweet I obviously couldn't read for myself. Maybe it's more test tings and they're getting unreasonably excited.

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joeplus

joeplus

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GGs to Hegg, Goemon and Nuskool for the lobby action last night! Super fun. My highlight was obviously unleashing the Sakiyo on Goemon after everyone had left, but for real there were some amazing matches there. Hegg's Deejay and Scott's Sagat especially.

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IgTerminals

IgTerminals

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I need to ask a potentially stupid question, cos I still need some help understanding some basic frame data concepts:

How do you find out block and hit advantages on jumping attacks? App and eventhubs, amongst others, list it as blank. Saw Knuckledu perform a very nice frame trap off a j.lp, Ultradavid confirmed as such, and obviously i can attempt to replicate it. But I can't understand how you would work out the FT in the first place if you don't know the blockstun from the j.lp.

I'm probably stupidly missing something completely obvious.

Heh. If someone could set me a test to research I might actually gain some knowledge about this game. :)

I'm not even sure what questions to ask.

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ah

ah

Posted
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Frame advantage on jumping attacks is different depending on how high the hit connects. One way to test is to do your thing against different characters and figure out if they can punish - e.g. can Zangief ultra it before you jump away, can Ryu uppercut before you block (or before your next attack), can Guile flash kick, etc.

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joffocakes

joffocakes

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Marvel is going on right now. It's all very Marvel.

Also! I just found out a new arcade has opened in San Antonio less than a ten minute drive from where I'll be staying in Texas next week. I'll be getting dropped off there while my wee lady goes shopping. Team Coleslaw represent!

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