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mansizerooster wrote : "I'm willing to bet that the Vita's GPU can out-do the combined output of the PS2's 2000-era dual GPUs quite easily. In terms of CPU the Vita could quite easily crush the PS2.

The mast majority of the pain would come from the astoundingly hardware-specific down-to-the-wire programming that went into the PS2. Like the PS3, it was an appallingly awkward and non-standard platform to work with, and a lot of games on it relied on hardware bugs that weren't part of the technical specs that an emulator would be based on.

So a PS2 emulator would firstly have to comply to the PS2's technical specs, then graft on a bunch of extra 'bug' behaviours. Sounds like a nightmare."

The biggest problem is the incredible pixel/texel fill rate of the PS2. Its fill rate is higher than the PS3 even, and probably all but the top end graphic cards available now. You can't simply emulate more powerful chips.

A cursory glance of the interwebs provides a pixel fill-rate of 2.4 gigapixels per second with Z buffer, alpha and textures for PS2. Vita has 4 Gigapixel fill rate, and texture fill rate of 8 gigapixels.

I would find it very difficult indeed to accept that a 12-ish year old console, widely accepted to be the least capable console of its generation, has any sort of throughput greater than that of the Vita. The Vita is hardly a powerhouse in the grand scheme of things, but has an impressive amount of grunt for a mobile device and is certainly not going to be bested by 12 year old hardware.

EDIT:

I tell a lie, the 2.4 gigapixel throughput of the PS2 is only when alpha and texturing is disabled. It's around half that while they are enabled.

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Just a quick heads-up to those who bought sound shapes, the 'recpmmended' community levels have now been updated, and are excellent.

Thanks for this. I've just queued up a few more to play tonight.

I'm loving the editor so much, but not loving the hard mode thing, whatever it's called. I did a couple of those, but they're really not much fun.

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My bad, it's the video ram bandwidth that's the issue. Hard as you may find it to believe (I was pretty amazed when I found out) the PS2 can shift 48 gigabytes (GigaBYTES, not gigabits) per second. That's more than twice what a 360 or PS3 can do. Some games will have made use of this feature to provide graphics above what you'd normally expect. Trying to emulate a game that is written in such a way as to fully utilize that bandwidth has got to be very difficult. This is why the early Back compatible PS3s had the PS2's Graphics Synthesizer chip inside them - they couldn't emulate it.

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My bad, it's the video ram bandwidth that's the issue. Hard as you may find it to believe (I was pretty amazed when I found out) the PS2 can shift 48 gigabytes (GigaBYTES, not gigabits) per second. That's more than twice what a 360 or PS3 can do. Some games will have made use of this feature to provide graphics above what you'd normally expect. Trying to emulate a game that is written in such a way as to fully utilize that bandwidth has got to be very difficult. This is why the early Back compatible PS3s had the PS2's Graphics Synthesizer chip inside them - they couldn't emulate it.

I don't understand then. What was the point in having that one chip so powerful? Why couldn't they replicate the technology in the PS3 & PSV? Since it is 12 year old tech surely it would not have been that expensive to make?

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I don't understand then. What was the point in having that one chip so powerful? Why couldn't they replicate the technology in the PS3 & PSV? Since it is 12 year old tech surely it would not have been that expensive to make?

I don't think it really mattered how much it cost - it was removed firmly in the FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE US DOLLARS era. They just needed to get the cost down, immediately and anything that wasn't crucial was going to go.

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I don't really know why the GS had such a massive memory bandwidth. Back then gfx chips didn't do as many 'things'. These days all the other stuff they can do negates the need for such insane bandwidth? My 6870 card doesn't have the bandwidth that the GS has, you probably need to go to top tier cards to get anywhere near it today. Anyway, that's why it's hard to emulate a PS2, especially if you want 100% of the games to work.

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Just wanted to add my wub for Sound Shapes. It's just lovely. Played the first 3 albums, and though short, it is very sweet. Love the album in the robot office/purgatory, the music on track 3 of this is mindblowing. Looking forward to digging into the community levels. Well worth a tenner.

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Just wanted to add my wub for Sound Shapes. It's just lovely. Played the first 3 albums, and though short, it is very sweet. Love the album in the robot office/purgatory, the music on track 3 of this is mindblowing. Looking forward to digging into the community levels. Well worth a tenner.

I loved the Beck album and I wouldn't consider myself as someone who likes (or dislikes) Beck. I've completed the main campaign and all the beat creator levels (mmmm trophies). I've also managed 4 of the death levels which are just on the edge of my tollerance of hard (random hard too) I can imagine they are not to everyone's tastes. Great game though I hope to see some great community levels as the tools seen pretty robust and possibly not fully explored by the devs.

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Oh in other news (thank GAF for it) it seems SCEA are bundle long 4GB cards with the Madden, Assasins Creed and COD bundles.

http://gamerxchange.net/2012/08/25/playstation-vita-bundles-will-have-memory-cards-available-for-pre-order/

Hopefully SCEE will follow suit. While the 4GB card is tiny it's fine if you are just using it for game saves for cart games and it at least gets you started.

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I don't really know why the GS had such a massive memory bandwidth. Back then gfx chips didn't do as many 'things'. These days all the other stuff they can do negates the need for such insane bandwidth? My 6870 card doesn't have the bandwidth that the GS has, you probably need to go to top tier cards to get anywhere near it today. Anyway, that's why it's hard to emulate a PS2, especially if you want 100% of the games to work.

6870 has 134.4GB/s bandwidth. Far more than the GS. My Nvidia 480's have 200GB/s. The ancient 9800GT I stuck in my work PC has 58GB/s and that cost me about £50 brand new retail.

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Ah. AMD's own website says:

134.4 Gbps memory bandwidth (maximum). Stupid AMD, that'd be 134.4 gigaBITS per second. Other places like Tom's hardware list it as GB/s.

Whatever way you look at it, my £120 6870 only has about 3 x the bandwidth of a 12 year old console. The ps2's bandwidth is insane for its time.

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yes , so the vita then?

when is the PSOne emulation coming? bought a few gems in the expectation (MGS, Soul Reaver, Tombraider 1, and already have Vagrant story, which I still haven't beaten after 10 years playing it)

Are we getting any cool emulation filters etc, maybe a snapshot function?

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We're starting to look like the 3DS thread in here, getting excited for games that are well over a decade old :(

Quite enjoying Sound Shapes, after a few levels it gets good, was a bit disappointed with it to start with. It's just quite a good platformer more than the music thingy.

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Oh in other news (thank GAF for it) it seems SCEA are bundle long 4GB cards with the Madden, Assasins Creed and COD bundles.

Hopefully SCEE will follow suit. While the 4GB card is tiny it's fine if you are just using it for game saves for cart games and it at least gets you started.

Wouldn't hold my breath. The euro Assassins Creed packshot doesn't show a memory card. It would also appear we're not getting a nice white Vita either. Black one on the box. Fuck's sake! I want a white one. Back to waiting, I guess. :(

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