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Avatar 2 - The Way of Water Dec 2022


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10 hours ago, JohnC said:

Cameron acknowledges it's going to be difficult to be successful in a GQ interview, calling the movie "the worst business case in movie history." "You have to be the third or fourth highest-grossing film in history. That’s your threshold. That’s your break even."


It’s been amusing to see big Jim do his PT Barnum on steroids schtick in the marketing for this film - he’s a proper throwback and it really feels like the modern social media crowd don’t know what to make of him. Makes you realise how few genuine creatives these days are out there blowing their own horn about how great they are.

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Not Avatar bashing here btw, and I quite like the first film. But I just went on to book at the IMAX and saw the 3 hours 10 minutes runtime and holy fuck, I don’t think I can sit in a cinema seat for that long.

 

It was different in 2009 when IMAX 3D was all new and exciting, but I don’t think I’m that bothered about seeing how the story continues right now, certainly not for 190 minutes. I think that’s a big ask for audiences.

 

Maybe I’ll be more interested in Avatar 3 once I’ve seen 2?

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1 hour ago, LaveDisco said:

Actually, fuck the Avatar bashing - it's family scifi that's not based on a comic, and not a remake. I'm up for supporting that.


Yeah fuck it, the new trailer looks cool, it’s Cameron, and I’ve not been to the IMAX in ages. Also sick of superhero movies. 

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4 hours ago, Ork1927 said:

 

Yeah - Cardiff Cineworld must have kept hold of them as normally nothing is in 3D bar the 4DX screenings.

 

This is opening day - I make it 10 or 11 screens out of 15 showing it in the middle of the day.

 

 

image.thumb.png.2d496d6f997fe41c276e3a3fe0cda3c5.png

 

Meanwhile my local cinema has this 2D/3D split:

 

Screenshot_20221122-204540_resize_43.jpg.54aa3e723b81b2424dfeafa889b7fa67.jpg

 

No high framerate 3D screenings, unfortunately. But I don't know if this cinema ever fitted the equipment capable of showing them (this cinema opened a couple of years after the last Hobbit film came out).

 

Annoyingly, this is coming out just after this cinema (the Light) has put up its prices. Boring specific details which no one but me cares about:

Spoiler

For years, up until just a few months ago, pre-12:00 weekday showing were ~£6-7 (which I always went to!); afternoons were ~£10; evenings and weekends were more than that. But when I went to Black Panther 2 last week, I found out that everything is at the more expensive price, with not much variation by time of day, for both big blockbusters and small ones.

 

Last week, Black Panther 2was £11.50, and a weekday morning showing of Banshees of Inisherin would have been £9.50. These 3D Avatar 2 showings are about £15 + £1.50 for glasses. :hmm:

 

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I find it odd that the trailer I saw at the cinema (before Wakanda Forever) was, like, 99% CG. I would have thought that'd be less likely to draw fence sitters than showing (familiar, celebrity) human faces and reactions. It's really hard to convey emotions in animation without hitting the uncanny valley, or going for exaggeration and I wasn't particularly convinced by the Avatarians' mugs. 

 

I'm also past being excited by CG, no matter how technically impressive. That said, I'd go see it if I could convince my wife to go. But there's no way on earth she's getting dragged to it :)

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On 22/11/2022 at 22:06, Treble said:

I find it odd that the trailer I saw at the cinema (before Wakanda Forever) was, like, 99% CG. I would have thought that'd be less likely to draw fence sitters than showing (familiar, celebrity) human faces and reactions.:)

 

It's extremely odd that a trailer for a film that is the sequel to one that famously pushed the boundaries for CGI (and they should look a bit uncanny - they're humanoid aliens) should not try and mis-sell the film's contents.

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52 minutes ago, footle said:

 

It's extremely odd that a trailer for a film that is the sequel to one that famously pushed the boundaries for CGI (and they should look a bit uncanny - they're humanoid aliens) should not try and mis-sell the film's contents.

 

Lovely response, and in no way bitchy or unnecessary. Ah well, one more for the shit list :)

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On 22/11/2022 at 23:06, Treble said:

I'm also past being excited by CG, no matter how technically impressive. That said, I'd go see it if I could convince my wife to go. But there's no way on earth she's getting dragged to it :)

 

Did you offer to pay? I'd probably go if someone paid and I could sneak in a small portable pillow under my coat. Did you also offer to sneak in a small portable pillow? And if I had a tub of sweets, pre put in fridge beforehand. Any offer of sweets? Or ice cream? Did you even try Treble, did you???!!

 

I really wish to enjoy this film, I really do, I just can't deal with boredom and now I've realised it's the earnestness that's doing it I can't overlook it. How can you, it's there in every scene. That's all written like..It's not out yet, just a trailer, who knows. 

 

Cameron said this film 'has more emotion and relationships in it, there wasn't much of that in the first one'. I mean I dunno. there was wasn't there. I think this film will polarise hard, will sit on 50% on rotten (not like it matters), those who yearn to go scuba diving off the coast of an island in the pacific will adore it, those wanting mechas will be left wanting I think. But that's a lot of run time for strong staring back and forth deep emotion I guess. 

 

The last Pirates film, the fifth one that happened but no one recalls it made $800m. Overseas love this stuff, in China alone how much increase in general cinema ticket sales has there been since 2009 I wonder. My frequency of posting is at severe tiresome level so I'll stop there. erm some more. I loved Valerian, all the human amphibian idyllic stuff, it just was quick in how it changed things up constantly and inventively whuch is the key for me.

 

Avatar is 10 minutes longer than The Departed, a long film no one thinks of as long. Avatar feels like a 3 hour film, The Departed a 2 hour film. Seems to always get a kicking but it obviously just is what it is, fun at least, the way it's edited always interests me, the title appearing 20 minutes in, the constant use of music (though not different for Scorsese sure), voices before visuals constantly, think how quick the first date is with Matt Damon and Vera Farmiga, the energy of it. I always loved the editing of Oceans Eleven, the introductions of each character, then them coming together. Their genres and vibe allow for them to do montages and use music to create flow, I guess Cameron feels more stuck, but given the opening of Titanic I doubt he's in tune with how necessary it is. 

 

“I don’t want anybody whining about length when they sit and binge-watch [television] for eight hours,” Cameron said. “I can almost write this part of the review. ‘The agonizingly long three-hour movie…’ It’s like, give me a fucking break. I’ve watched my kids sit and do five one-hour episodes in a row. Here’s the big social paradigm shift that has to happen: it’s okay to get up and go pee.”

 

But I mean..it's not entirely that is it, it's pacing, editing, tone, a three hour film is not the same as three 60 minute episodes of a tv show. I could have watched another hour of Barbarian recently. The Black Phone on the other hand felt an hour too long. It has nothing to do with needing to go to the toilet. 

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27 minutes ago, Loik V credern said:

 

Did you offer to pay? I'd probably go if someone paid and I could sneak in a small portable pillow under my coat. Did you also offer to sneak in a small portable pillow? And if I had a tub of sweets, pre put in fridge beforehand. Any offer of sweets? Or ice cream? Did you even try Treble, did you???!!

 

 

 

Clearly not hard enough. Nah, we have unlimited passes and she still wouldn't touch it with yours. Duration is the great leveller, isn't it? Most people will sit through a 1.5 hour showing if it's effectively 'free'. It takes stamina, endurance and commitment to struggle through 3 hours worth. 

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12 hours ago, Loik V credern said:

 

Did you offer to pay? I'd probably go if someone paid and I could sneak in a small portable pillow under my coat. Did you also offer to sneak in a small portable pillow? And if I had a tub of sweets, pre put in fridge beforehand. Any offer of sweets? Or ice cream? Did you even try Treble, did you???!!

 

I really wish to enjoy this film, I really do, I just can't deal with boredom and now I've realised it's the earnestness that's doing it I can't overlook it. How can you, it's there in every scene. That's all written like..It's not out yet, just a trailer, who knows. 

 

Cameron said this film 'has more emotion and relationships in it, there wasn't much of that in the first one'. I mean I dunno. there was wasn't there. I think this film will polarise hard, will sit on 50% on rotten (not like it matters), those who yearn to go scuba diving off the coast of an island in the pacific will adore it, those wanting mechas will be left wanting I think. But that's a lot of run time for strong staring back and forth deep emotion I guess. 

 

The last Pirates film, the fifth one that happened but no one recalls it made $800m. Overseas love this stuff, in China alone how much increase in general cinema ticket sales has there been since 2009 I wonder. My frequency of posting is at severe tiresome level so I'll stop there. erm some more. I loved Valerian, all the human amphibian idyllic stuff, it just was quick in how it changed things up constantly and inventively whuch is the key for me.

 

Avatar is 10 minutes longer than The Departed, a long film no one thinks of as long. Avatar feels like a 3 hour film, The Departed a 2 hour film. Seems to always get a kicking but it obviously just is what it is, fun at least, the way it's edited always interests me, the title appearing 20 minutes in, the constant use of music (though not different for Scorsese sure), voices before visuals constantly, think how quick the first date is with Matt Damon and Vera Farmiga, the energy of it. I always loved the editing of Oceans Eleven, the introductions of each character, then them coming together. Their genres and vibe allow for them to do montages and use music to create flow, I guess Cameron feels more stuck, but given the opening of Titanic I doubt he's in tune with how necessary it is. 

 

“I don’t want anybody whining about length when they sit and binge-watch [television] for eight hours,” Cameron said. “I can almost write this part of the review. ‘The agonizingly long three-hour movie…’ It’s like, give me a fucking break. I’ve watched my kids sit and do five one-hour episodes in a row. Here’s the big social paradigm shift that has to happen: it’s okay to get up and go pee.”

 

But I mean..it's not entirely that is it, it's pacing, editing, tone, a three hour film is not the same as three 60 minute episodes of a tv show. I could have watched another hour of Barbarian recently. The Black Phone on the other hand felt an hour too long. It has nothing to do with needing to go to the toilet. 

 

Point of order, The Departed is shite.

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57 minutes ago, Festoon said:

Point of order, The Departed is shite.

 

Is it really though, is it.

 

Basically held up to the highest of highest cinematic works of the most authenticity, integrity and artistic purity because 'greatest living director' Scorsese directed it. It's a fun film where we get to enjoy Di Caprio get increasingly stressed out and say things like 'the guy murderd someone, he fucking murdered someone, what are you waiting for, do you want him to chop me up and feed me to the poor?'

 

I'll take trash over supposed worthiness any day tbh. 

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1 hour ago, Loik V credern said:

 

Is it really though, is it.

 

Basically held up to the highest of highest cinematic works of the most authenticity, integrity and artistic purity because 'greatest living director' Scorsese directed it. It's a fun film where we get to enjoy Di Caprio get increasingly stressed out and say things like 'the guy murderd someone, he fucking murdered someone, what are you waiting for, do you want him to chop me up and feed me to the poor?'

 

I'll take trash over supposed worthiness any day tbh. 

 

Well yeah, it's a really average film, Nicholson seems bored throughout. As a version of Infernal Affairs its lacking the tension and excitement. A mid-tier Scorsese effort, I suppose - I think his best are both great to watch and artistically valid, like Goodfellas and Casino.

 

I'd put The Departed below the scholckier genre pics he's made like Shutter Island - that film knows what it is and it's better for it.

 

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15 hours ago, Loik V credern said:

 

Did you offer to pay? I'd probably go if someone paid and I could sneak in a small portable pillow under my coat. Did you also offer to sneak in a small portable pillow? And if I had a tub of sweets, pre put in fridge beforehand. Any offer of sweets? Or ice cream? Did you even try Treble, did you???!!

 

I really wish to enjoy this film, I really do, I just can't deal with boredom and now I've realised it's the earnestness that's doing it I can't overlook it. How can you, it's there in every scene. That's all written like..It's not out yet, just a trailer, who knows. 

 

Cameron said this film 'has more emotion and relationships in it, there wasn't much of that in the first one'. I mean I dunno. there was wasn't there. I think this film will polarise hard, will sit on 50% on rotten (not like it matters), those who yearn to go scuba diving off the coast of an island in the pacific will adore it, those wanting mechas will be left wanting I think. But that's a lot of run time for strong staring back and forth deep emotion I guess. 

 

The last Pirates film, the fifth one that happened but no one recalls it made $800m. Overseas love this stuff, in China alone how much increase in general cinema ticket sales has there been since 2009 I wonder. My frequency of posting is at severe tiresome level so I'll stop there. erm some more. I loved Valerian, all the human amphibian idyllic stuff, it just was quick in how it changed things up constantly and inventively whuch is the key for me.

 

Avatar is 10 minutes longer than The Departed, a long film no one thinks of as long. Avatar feels like a 3 hour film, The Departed a 2 hour film. Seems to always get a kicking but it obviously just is what it is, fun at least, the way it's edited always interests me, the title appearing 20 minutes in, the constant use of music (though not different for Scorsese sure), voices before visuals constantly, think how quick the first date is with Matt Damon and Vera Farmiga, the energy of it. I always loved the editing of Oceans Eleven, the introductions of each character, then them coming together. Their genres and vibe allow for them to do montages and use music to create flow, I guess Cameron feels more stuck, but given the opening of Titanic I doubt he's in tune with how necessary it is. 

 

“I don’t want anybody whining about length when they sit and binge-watch [television] for eight hours,” Cameron said. “I can almost write this part of the review. ‘The agonizingly long three-hour movie…’ It’s like, give me a fucking break. I’ve watched my kids sit and do five one-hour episodes in a row. Here’s the big social paradigm shift that has to happen: it’s okay to get up and go pee.”

 

But I mean..it's not entirely that is it, it's pacing, editing, tone, a three hour film is not the same as three 60 minute episodes of a tv show. I could have watched another hour of Barbarian recently. The Black Phone on the other hand felt an hour too long. It has nothing to do with needing to go to the toilet. 

 

You're right, the length of a film isn't really the issue, it's about the content and how it's all put together and paced. Fuck them up and a long film feels its length. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood seemed to fly by for a near 3hr film and I honestly felt like I could have stayed with these characters even longer, whereas recently, Terrifier 2 and Wankanda Forever needed some serious editing trimming.

 

(FWIW I think The Departed is great. That never felt long to me either)

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37 minutes ago, Festoon said:

As a version of Infernal Affairs its lacking the tension and excitement.

 

This is it. Infernal Affairs is such a finely polished piece of tension building and taut storytelling that The Departed just feels flabby and bloated in comparison.

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I was reading all these takes on the departed thinking you guys were crazy, I thought everyone agreed that movie was fantastic?! Then I saw Nicholson and Scorsese and I somehow still didn’t immediately realise that you weren’t talking about the one where dicaprio gets mauled by the bear. 

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I'm actually quite looking forward to this despite thinking the original was a bit medicre, especially for a james cameron movie.

 

I have heard the storyline isn't that far distanced from the original movie? I really hope it offers something new besides avatar under water.

 

Still, i don't really know anyone that is bothered to watch it. There doesn't seem to be much hype for it, compared to something like force awakens or even the first avatar.

 

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On 26/11/2022 at 16:58, Festoon said:

 

Has Cameron always been so cartoonishly confident? Or is it he's just done so few interviews it never became noticeable. The stuff about veganism is more interesting to me than the film tbh, but i totally get his reasons for making Avatar, even if it doesn't matter how many billions of people on Earth are hyper aware about the damage we're doing to the planet if a few hundred people who make decisions have all the power.

 

I thought people generally become more zen as they get older, they're past caring what others think, of being insecure, because they've had more time to think, reflect, and are nearing the end. He's obviously interesting to listen to though, he talked about DiCaprio auditioning for Titanic in a video recently that was interesting. He reminds me of Ridley Scott in a way, both more bullish and fortright than ever it seems, both have that American work ethic and more into filmmaking in a technical sense than artistic one, like Cameron pushing technology and Scott pushing the scale of shoots, the more films they do the more confident they get in their methods. There was someone on the Deakins podcast who worked as a video playback operator on War Horse and said he spent the whole shoot being criticised by Spielberg who was always like 'I expect this to be quicker' etc and that was eye opening too, that directing is never laid back even on films you forget i guess might still be demanding despite being bad.

 

I watched an interview with Cameron in 1986 for Aliens and he was less combative. I watched one of Scott in 1979, similar.

 

more quotes:

 

Quote

"The trolls will have it that nobody gives a shit and they can’t remember the characters' names or one damn thing that happened in the movie," he said in an interview with Empire. "Then they see the movie again and go, 'Oh, okay, excuse me, let me just shut the fuck up right now.' So I’m not worried about that."

 

"There’s skepticism in the marketplace around, 'Oh, did it ever make any real cultural impact?'" he said. "Can anybody even remember the characters’ names?'... When you have extraordinary success, you come back within the next three years. That’s just how the industry works. You come back to the well, and you build that cultural impact over time. Marvel had maybe 26 movies to build out a universe, with the characters cross-pollinating. So it’s an irrelevant argument. We’ll see what happens after this film."

 

I mean that's nonsense, loads of films have had cultural impact in one film. And that first quote doesn't even make sense!

 

Cameron hasn't really explored that many ideas in his career at all i don't think, Aliens was established by Scott and Giger right, True Lies was a remake, Titanic had many other versions, Avatar is Fern Gully remade. There's the Abyss. Terminator is his greatest contribution to culture. okay this is all a bit 'some guy on internet is criticising the guy who made Aliens and Terminator as though Cameron could have done better', but you know, he's such a natural action director, i'm just disappointed that's all. i'd like to tell him that, cameron, i'm a bit disappointed in you. you showed such promise.

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On 04/12/2022 at 09:28, Festoon said:

Cameron has always been supremely confident. I'd say it's his trademark attribute.

 

Yeah I agree, but he seems more blunt now but I'd have to go through all his interviews from the 80s and 90s to compare. New quote 

 

Quote

“Everything I need to say as a filmmaker, I can say within the films that I’ve already got mapped out,” Cameron says. “I spent about three years on the scripts. Tolkien took what, 12 years to write his trilogy? The first thing I did on day one with the writers was I slapped down 800 pages of notes and said, ‘Here’s the world, the culture, the characters, the basic story arc. Now, let’s figure it out’.”

 

Actually the first interview I found was from 1986 and 

 

Quote

THR: You started back in college. Was that your entree into filmmaking?

 

JC: I was actually more of a novelist at that time. I wasn't really thinking toward screenwriting. And I got in with a bunch of friends, writers. Basically, they're still my only kind of real friends now. They're the same people I started out with back in Orange County. They're writers now, they've done a few things. wrote novels. A lot of unsold screenplays. Boy, when you think of how many scripts are written a year and how many get made...

 

THR: Those figures never discouraged you, though.

JC: Fortunately for me as a writer, I kind of had the practical wherewithal to put things into actuality, but a lot of people don't have that. 

 

James Cameron was a novellist? He considers himself a writer? Isn't his dialogue about as bad as it gets? 

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I predict that this film will be an overwrought and relatively mediocre but enjoyable and lavish sci fi spectacle, like the first film, but that it will also do absolute gangbusters at the box office. But despite that it will also still not make anywhere near enough money to break even.

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