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Pikkewyn
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I'm sure Davros is sincere, but I also think if his Wii started oozing faeces from the air vents he'd find a positive way to spin it :lol:

One could say it has higher peaks and lower troughs. Again, I'm not sure that's a good thing.

I'm not as blind to the Wii's faults and software library as you think I am. That doesn't stop it being in my opinion, the best console ever made.

At the very least, it is different.

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You can sheesh all you like Squirts, it's my honest opinion.

All the games you listed for the 360 are 8 or 9 out of ten games, except for Oblivion which was actual shit and not fit to lick Morrowind's boots. I loved Fallout 3, and I loved Mass Effect, but they're not all-time classics. Red Dead Redemption is the only game I'd say approaches that, and that's got enough flaws to render it "merely" brilliant.

As I said, it's not really a criticism to say that the 360 has lots of really good games. It's just that for me, the Wii has some actual 10 on 10 classics (two of which you listed). One could say it has higher peaks and lower troughs. Again, I'm not sure that's a good thing.

I'd expect more sense from you man, come on. Its all in the eye of the beholder. I love those types of games, so to me they are "tens". If you want to class a ten as something that does its chosen thing perfectly, then the 360 is littered with them. I did the coin-collecting platformer thing 20 years ago, and got sick of it by the end of the SNES era. It doesnt appeal to me remotely anymore (3d or not), so that;s the Wii's "best" 2 games ruled out for me. like squirtle says, the 360 does what it does so well, and I never tire of stuff like Halo, Gears, COD...the amount of hours entertainment I get from them make them tens in my book.

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I'd expect more sense from you man, come on. Its all in the eye of the beholder. I love those types of games, so to me they are "tens". If you want to class a ten as something that does its chosen thing perfectly, then the 360 is littered with them. I did the coin-collecting platformer thing 20 years ago, and got sick of it by the end of the SNES era. It doesnt appeal to me remotely anymore (3d or not), so that;s the Wii's "best" 2 games ruled out for me. like squirtle says, the 360 does what it does so well, and I never tire of stuff like Halo, Gears, COD...the amount of hours entertainment I get from them make them tens in my book.

That's great! Glad you're enjoying it.

Personally if I never fire another gun in first person perspective it will be too soon (oh, and Wii Sports was my other 10 - I still haven't played SMG2).

Still, as you so rightly say - Its all in the eye of the beholder

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It is not strange in the slightest. I've liked and occasionally loathed reading this thread. Some really interesting and mind bending opinions. It's just being fucked up by nonsense fanboy hardware discussion now. Man up and shut up. And post some controversial game opinions as indicated by the thread title. I would, but I've racked my brains and I can't think of anything particularly notable, I like too much stuff. This isn't a thread for people with a normal and positive outlook on things, it's for really strange people who cry at Mario.

I did post earlier in the thread that GTA4 is the best GTA game ever made, but it seemed to get missed.

I'll state it again.

GTA4 is the best GTA game made.

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EDIT: Too slow, this is in reply to Squirtle and Angel's posts about GTAIV.

It has to be played, definitely. The hate comes from the fact it's just totally up its own arse, mostly grotty and dark, and the characters were distinctly unlikable. In that sense it's completely unlike the previous GTA games - there was very little humour to be found. BOGT made it better though, it's like they took a few 'fun' lessons from Saints Row 2.

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EDIT: Too slow, this is in reply to Squirtle and Angel's posts about GTAIV.

It has to be played, definitely. The hate comes from the fact it's just totally up its own arse, mostly grotty and dark, and the characters were distinctly unlikable. In that sense it's completely unlike the previous GTA games - there was very little humour to be found. BOGT made it better though, it's like they took a few 'fun' lessons from Saints Row 2.

It's been a while since I played it but I found plenty of humour in it. The conversations in the car with Niko's brother, the phone calls with Bruce, the websites, going dating and the like. I found all that balanced the more interesting story of Niko's quest for revenge pretty well. I never took to San Andreas' meta game stuff, personally. I didn't really give a shit about it, and to be honest, I found the characters in San Andreas way more obnoxious and unlikable than Niko, his brother (was it Roman - I'm terrible with names sometimes) et al. On top of that, I used to dig cruising round at night listening to the trance music in it. Only time I've actually felt like I was playing some kind of wierd Michael Mann film/game hybrid. As for vice city and GTA3 - rubbish controls ruined these games for me well before I could get into them.

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It's been a while since I played it but I found plenty of humour in it. The conversations in the car with Niko's brother, the phone calls with Bruce, the websites, going dating and the like. I found all that balanced the more interesting story of Niko's quest for revenge pretty well. I never took to San Andreas' meta game stuff, personally. I didn't really give a shit about it, and to be honest, I found the characters in San Andreas way more obnoxious and unlikable than Niko, his brother (was it Roman - I'm terrible with names sometimes) et al. On top of that, I used to dig cruising round at night listening to the trance music in it. Only time I've actually felt like I was playing some kind of wierd Michael Mann film/game hybrid. As for vice city and GTA3 - rubbish controls ruined these games for me well before I could get into them.

I thought GTA IV started brilliantly and felt that the best characters and best environments were in the 'Brooklyn' area. I've felt this has been a common theme across them all - the initial areas are the most interesting when it's dirty and hilly and dangerous. It gets less interesting as you get to richer parts, across the water to other islands... I've felt this was the case in all GTA's since GTA 3.

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It lost me when Nico started slapping that girl around. Really enjoyed the immersion etc up until then. I was never one to go on a rampage though, I even stopped at traffic lights etc.

I bet you didn't kill the preacher across the road from the Bohan safehouse either. You disgust me.

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It's been a while since I played it but I found plenty of humour in it. The conversations in the car with Niko's brother, the phone calls with Bruce, the websites, going dating and the like. I found all that balanced the more interesting story of Niko's quest for revenge pretty well. I never took to San Andreas' meta game stuff, personally. I didn't really give a shit about it, and to be honest, I found the characters in San Andreas way more obnoxious and unlikable than Niko, his brother (was it Roman - I'm terrible with names sometimes) et al. On top of that, I used to dig cruising round at night listening to the trance music in it. Only time I've actually felt like I was playing some kind of wierd Michael Mann film/game hybrid. As for vice city and GTA3 - rubbish controls ruined these games for me well before I could get into them.

My big problem with the story in GTA4 was that it just doent make sense to have nico being all like "ive done some bad things, ive killed people...robbed people...maybe here, things will be different.."

4273_gta_iv_trailer_screenshot.jpg

:lol:

So he decided to turn his life around by mudering and selling drugs and whatnot...yeah, makes perfect sense.

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The only thing I dislike about GTA IV (and its siblings) are the on-foot controls and combat. Slow, clunky and awkward. It has been like this since the earlier games, but back then it was more forgivable because these games were in a league of their own. Now other games in the genre have shown it is actually possible to pull of an open world game with a character that is agile and moves about like a person rather than a tugboat.

Fortunately Red Dead Redemption improved massively on the on-foot and shoot controls, so I hope a future incarnation of GTA will fix this. Other than that, I've always liked the story and the missions. GTA IV did feel to be a more 'empty' game than San Andreas though, and I wasn't too keen on the 'let's go bowling' social mechanics.

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My big problem with the story in GTA4 was that it just doent make sense to have nico being all like "ive done some bad things, ive killed people...robbed people...maybe here, things will be different.."

So he decided to turn his life around by mudering and selling drugs and whatnot...yeah, makes perfect sense.

I thought that was the whole point of the story. It's cliched, I know, but it was always about chasing the American Dream, but realising that for people like them, the only way to realise that dream is to lie and cheat and kill. It's basically Al Pacino in Scarface/Carlito's Way/The Godfather.

As for the controls, yeah, the turning circle on Nico was a bit rubbish, but I just got used to it. Like I said, I preferred the streamlined design of it as well. I just wanted to see where the story was going, putting loads of extra shit in just got in the way for me.

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The combination of bad controls and lack of checkpoints meant that one slip up during an irritating difficulty spike could mean redoing an entire mission including all the driving, upgrading of weapons etc. Massively irritating. Other than that, I really enjoy those games. I never completed GTA IV or any of the DLC episodes yet though, and I doubt I ever will.

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I thought that was the whole point of the story. It's cliched, I know, but it was always about chasing the American Dream, but realising that for people like them, the only way to realise that dream is to lie and cheat and kill. It's basically Al Pacino in Scarface/Carlito's Way/The Godfather.

As for the controls, yeah, the turning circle on Nico was a bit rubbish, but I just got used to it. Like I said, I preferred the streamlined design of it as well. I just wanted to see where the story was going, putting loads of extra shit in just got in the way for me.

Thats true, but the fact that nico complained the entire game about how he didnt want to be doing that sort of stuff anymore is what bothered me.

Personally i think RDR is better than gta4 by a country mile, including its expansions, and tells a better, more involving story than any GTA game ever has

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The combination of bad controls and lack of checkpoints meant that one slip up during an irritating difficulty spike could mean redoing an entire mission including all the driving, upgrading of weapons etc. Massively irritating. Other than that, I really enjoy those games. I never completed GTA IV or any of the DLC episodes yet though, and I doubt I ever will.

This is why I have never bothered playing any of them. Remember seeing friends playing various GTAs through the years and getting stuck on a bastard mission. And doing it over.. and over... and over... again. I admired their persistence but if I'm going to play the same bit that many times it has to be REALLY, REALLY great awesome fucking fun.

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Fortunately Red Dead Redemption improved massively on the on-foot [...] controls

Whoa, WHOA!

Like hell it did.

RDR improved very slightly on-foot controls, maybe.

Marston on foot is about as graceful as Ann Widdecombe wearing leg calipers running the Krypton Factor assault course.

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If you feel like that, go play RDR for an hour and then return to GTA IV and enter a shootout.

The difference is huge.

I agree the combat/shooting is improved, but just generally walking around and trying to negotiate steps etc. still feels very clunky.

Might see if I can A/B em tonight, not played GTA for ages, and need to check out Undead too.

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The best GTA is Saint's Row 2.

GTA IV is completely devisive. If you're into interactive design, the possibilities of open game worlds, player authorship of the experience, player authoriship of characterisation, emergent play, improvisational play and emergent entertainment, Saint's Row 2 utterly crushes it and every GTA previously.

If you're into mish-mashed, dreary and predictable influences worn on the sleeve, reference-heavy plotting, pretentious narratives and intrusive characterisation, GTA IV wins.

If you like raw interactive design and emphasis on the player as the author of their experiences, it's pure emporer's-new-clothes piss. Fundamentally, the interactive design of the series took a major step *backwards* after San Andreas.

For my money, both GTA IV was a wasteful bag of utter, utter shit. So much good, solid, mandatory-as-standard game design from other open world games was completely ignored, either out of wilful arrogance that what was there was 'enough', or even worse, to chase down the shitty cul-de-sac of cinematic aspiration.

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The combination of bad controls and lack of checkpoints meant that one slip up during an irritating difficulty spike could mean redoing an entire mission including all the driving, upgrading of weapons etc. Massively irritating. Other than that, I really enjoy those games. I never completed GTA IV or any of the DLC episodes yet though, and I doubt I ever will.

It's worth it, they all have great finales. BoGT in particular is tremendous OTT action movie stuff (I won't spoil it) and there is something to be said for the gun porn that is the finale of TLaD. That game also has one of the best end credits in a long time.

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