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FPS genre and the PC


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Or just man up and remap your keys.

I always thought his point was that it's rather shit of a developer to not even bother with an alternative preset for left handers. It wouldn't take too long to set one up, and saves each and every lefty gamer hassle with every single game they buy.

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I always thought his point was that it's rather shit of a developer to not even bother with an alternative preset for left handers. It wouldn't take too long to set one up, and saves each and every lefty gamer hassle with every single game they buy.

The problem there is that due to decades of neglect there isn't a consistent keyboard mapping that left-handers (or at least the ones I know) use. The majority of right handed people just use WASD but i've seen left-handers use (variations on) OKL:, cursors, or even the numpad.

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So does mine, I took them all out. :lol:

Memories, the problem is most people only read the first line and angrily pigeonhole me or whoever as a PC fanatic, before angrily bashing out nonsense on their keyboard about how great Halo is and so on, or assume we're doing the opposite. Much of the time, it's more entertaining just to play the part and watch people get their knickers in a twist, if they can't conceive of a middle ground or a person who enjoys the various benefits of all the formats, so be it. When I mention that something is better on PC, it's usually from experience of owning or at least playing both copies, but there's no point qualifying everything as on Rllmuk it tends to be ignored in favour of reactionary and defensive polarising and pigeonholing.

Half Life 2 IS better than Halo though

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Since when having high end hardware make a game more complex and challenging?! Starcraft ran on just about anything, Serious Sam didn't You're really rummaging for arguments now.

I said the exact opposite! I don't know why you're having so much trouble reading my posts.

I said that high budgets required simple accessible gameplay for a wide audience, while small budgets can create complex games for a niche, and that since content creation is the biggest monetary cost this tends to be linked to the fidelity of the content.

Why has the PC been the main driver? It's the console companies that practically bankrupt themselves to develop new consoles, then market them, then sell them at a huge loss.

But a lot of the components are just PC components in bulk. Stuff like Cell is an outlier, the approach is much more off the shelf.

Now more than ever there is space for all types of development, from the big budget triple-A stuff (buoyed by the revenue from a multi-format release) to the small indie stuff (buoyed by the ease of digital distribution and emerging successful markets like the App store, Android market and Steam).

Yes, this is nice, but I'd like to see a re-emergence of more niche gamer games with lower production values rather than just lo-fi versions of genres that already exist in big blockbuster versions (like Torchlight to Diablo 3). There's still no-one making stealth or survival horror games anymore, for example.

A big load of text that contains a lot of truth but is far more broad than what I'm talking about

I'm not really talking about economics or the wider picture of the industry.

I was just trying to admonish PC gamers who pine for the olden days and blame the current state of accessible easy games on console gamers for having a shallow understanding of the industry, and being hypocritical without any cognitive dissonance as to their role within the market.

That's all.

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My point was that I mainly dislike PC gaming due to the hassle of getting it up and running and I don't see how 'manning up to remap the keys' for every single game I want to play is going change this :)

Fair enough, but try basing your opinion on more relevant data - as Sprite Machine said, Steam is every bit as simple as buying a game on XBL or PSN. It's really not a hassle. Play portal on your Mac or something, you'll see how painless it is.

Johnny - I refer you to my previous post. I don't see what any of your responses have in relation to the argument at hand, some of it is just plain wrong. Arkham Asylum wasn't a stealth game? No-one is making survival horror anymore? Dead Space, The latest Silent Hill, the upcoming Silent Hill, the upcoming Mikami/Suda51 survival horror game, STALKER? The game this thread sprang from? Genres consolidate and borrow ideas from each other, the most successful ideas suffusing through many games before people become tired of them (cover based combat?) You can't keep building games around the same mechanic forever, but you can incorporate the mechanic into another game successfully without needing to concentrate solely on it for the whole game. it's just the way it goes, it's not dumbing down, it's moving on.

Also, re: your statement about console hardware being PC hardware in bulk.

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I think I saw a woman in Tescos carrying around one those, obviously preparing for a night of Crysis after her shift knocked off.

More like she was preparing to sit up into the wee hours programming 87 separate macros for Wow! If it isn't capable of at least 50 macros, it's just not fit to be called a keyboard.

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My point was, in my last post, that PC games, have been the main driver towards increased graphics and production values within this industry, but the costs associated with these rises means PC games have had to abandon being niche and reach a wider audience, which eventually meant becoming multiplatform.

This is completely wrong though - console games have always made an order of magnitude more money than PC games. Why would a developer not cater for as many platforms as possible, once it became viable to do so?

Grouping technical requirements and production values is confused, too. Most of the most expensive games ever developed in terms of production values have been console games.

I also like how you're the only person in this thread (and possibly the internet) using the word "contards".

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True that...in fact the top 10 are all console games.

Only 2 of the Rockster ones made it to PC (GTA, LA Noire and RDR). Too human may have come out on the PC too...i forget.

To be fair though he may not have meant current era...in which case i don't know.

One thing that is certain is that graphics are no longer the "driver"...(despite the fact thats the one thing that always needs updating on a PC :lol:.)

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This is completely wrong though - console games have always made an order of magnitude more money than PC games. Why would a developer not cater for as many platforms as possible, once it became viable to do so?

Grouping technical requirements and production values is confused, too. Most of the most expensive games ever developed in terms of production values have been console games.

I also like how you're the only person in this thread (and possibly the internet) using the word "contards".

stfu contard!

Only kidding, glad to see I'm not the only person bemused at RJ's logic. It's very astute of you to point out that technical requirements and production values are not intrinsically connected. Even if RJ is talking about times past, say the period between Quake 1 and Half Life 1, or Half Life 1 and Half Life 2, there's no evidence that PC games were forced to go multiplatform to support their supposedly rising development costs. He's confusing cause and effect.

What ACTUALLY happened was that several developers worked out how incredibly easy and profitable it was to port a PC game to the Dreamcast/Xbox/Xbox 360. Many of them found success far beyond what they had known on PC, their revenue and thus their development costs rose as they reinvested in technology/staff to remain competitive, and everyone else followed suit. If company A are making 50 times as much money by releasing on Xbox 360 at a higher price point with less piracy and the chance to up their profits via DLC, company B would be moronic not to follow suit, even if it meant hiring some more staff and spending more on development to compete, or even worse, angering their PC devotee fanbase with the shocking admittance that businesses like money.

There was no mass exodus to the consoles as a reaction to ballooning PC development costs. Rather, development costs have risen naturally over time as companies seek a competitive edge, and the expansion to console/mobile/browser gaming is simple proof that a business will try to make money wherever, whenever and however it can. Console development has given development teams like Infinity ward, Lionhead and Epic success they could never have dreamed of on PC alone, and they're in it for the money, not grudgingly spinning out console ports to help finance their slavish devotion to high production values.

Of course, there are plenty of exceptions, Blizzard for example, or companies like CCP/Stardock/Relic who have carved themselves a profitable niche, often with games that would be impossible on console anyhow. Arguably not for much longer, I'd put money on console versions of Diablo 3 and the new Blizzard MMO, CCP are building an EVE-universe multiplatform shooter, and Relic are about to venture into console-land with the excitingly titled SPACE MARINE.

I'm solidly of the opinion that all games should release on all formats - lock and optimise the console version to specific settings, and allow PC users to take that into their own hands. If possible or necessary, rethink your UI or control method, but develop all versions in tandem. Bioware/Valve seem to have this down to a tee, I much prefer that approach to making something PC-only or console-only. For example I'd love a 360 version of Starcraft 2, if it were realistically possible, because more people would get to play and enjoy the game. Just about every major or notable PC developer has been wooed by console now, to varying degrees of success. I think this is a good thing, and while I prefer to play most games on the PC, I'd hate for all the now-multiformat stuff to have remained PC only. Console development brings more games to more people and more money to developers, which can be reinvested to develop their next multiformat release. Everyone wins. Except Rubberjohnny.

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When is the last time you used a PC, 1998? :huh:

All of Napoleon's criticisms apply today, really. The thing about us PC gamers is we'll grumble endlessly amongst each other over ventrilo about ini files and validating files but if one of those smarmy console gamers dares to criticise the complications of our platform we'll rally against them in the blink of an eye, scoffing at their outdated opinions and unsavvy selves as we tout this new golden age of PC gaming in which we all currently reside.

In this way we're very much like Smitty.

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All of Napoleon's criticisms apply today, really. The thing about us PC gamers is we'll grumble endlessly amongst each other over ventrilo about ini files and validating files but if one of those smarmy console gamers dares to criticise the complications of our platform we'll rally against them in the blink of an eye, scoffing at their outdates opinions and unsavvy selves as we tout this new golden age of PC gaming in which we all currently reside.

In this way we're very much like Smitty.

Yesterday I told Napoleon off for his archaic opinion, and then I spent an hour trying to make Stalker load. To be fair, I was the one who broke it.

It's hard to deny that Steam and the cross development between 360 and PC have made an incredible difference to the ease of PC Gaming though. I've got about 80 games on Steam now, and looking through the list I can only see one or two I had any problems with (not caused by me installing dodgy mods, naturally). Both of them were piss-poor console ports too - Silent Hill Homecoming and Beyond Good & Evil. With all said and done, I don't really care which format people go for, I just prefer that they are given a choice.

(I heard Smitty habitually rubs halloumi cheese against his teeth, as he REALLY likes that squeaky sensation you get when you eat it straight out of the packet.)

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