Jump to content

Football League Championship 2010/11 Official Thread


Rex Grossman
 Share

Recommended Posts

Congrats to Norwich! Great club, and my brother's team... been to Carrow Road a fair few times... be nice to hear On The Ball City occasionally on MOTD. Now, let's just hope Delia keeps her mouth shut eh :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being as they are the only 2 games left with teams who have anything to play for....QPR vs Leeds is on the bbc on saturday at 12.45, whilst Crystal Palace vs Forest is on sky.

/pessimism/ great, our capitulation and embarrassement will be broadcast live to the nation \pessimism\

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being as they are the only 2 games left with teams who have anything to play for....QPR vs Leeds is on the bbc on saturday at 12.45, whilst Crystal Palace vs Forest is on sky.

/pessimism/ great, our capitulation and embarrassement will be broadcast live to the nation \pessimism\

We can trump it if: QPR Points deduction + Cardiff Draw + Swansea Win = Swansea automatic on goal difference becuase some team of bottlers lost 3-0

Without the points deduction then we can still set up the ultimate bottlers play-off final. You better beat the Jacks if that is how the draw turns out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You better beat the Jacks if that is how the draw turns out.

Have you ever seen Forest in a play-off semi-final? We employ similar tactics to you... by which I mean wait until it looks like they might actually do it and then strive to concede as many goals as possible...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apparently Samuel and Chopra were out the night before the game, Samuel is said to have been out until 4am. Absolute disgrace if it's true and Dave Jones should throw the book at the two of them.

I hadn't heard that - Samuel played like he had been out on the piss.

If true then he should be sent back straight away to Bolton.

As for Chopra - fine him 2 months wages - keep him on the bench and then kick him out whatever happens next season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We can trump it if: QPR Points deduction + Cardiff Draw + Swansea Win = Swansea automatic on goal difference becuase some team of bottlers lost 3-0

Without the points deduction then we can still set up the ultimate bottlers play-off final. You better beat the Jacks if that is how the draw turns out.

Ah man, if we cement a play off spot and play you....it will be an epic battle of 2 teams desperate to blow it in increasingly spectacular ways

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting post from a swansea forum,i think it was originally from a cardiff fan, re:the qpr shenanigans

Its only someone's opinion but I learnt more about the QPR affair from this than any newspaper article, well worth a read (picked up from a Cardiff message board)

It seems to me that the whole QPR points deduction scenario is one coloured by uncertainty about what the implications would if a points deduction were imposed and to that end, depending on which camp you're in, whether you're an optimist or pessimist, or whether you are prone to clutching at straws will determine how you view the scenario.

Most people, I think sensibly, have adopted the bury the head in the sand philosophy and will wait and see with everyone committing to "getting as many points as we can".

BBC were reporting that they "understood" that QPR will ultimately be fined and not face a points deduction, and indeed the QPR spin machine has been engaging in a full on assault since the charges were brought to push the message that they would not be getting a points deduction. the bbc have since changed this stance.

I must confess to have only taking a passing interest in the QPR story when it broke in March, but as we reach the climax of the season my interest was piqued and I have spent several hours researching the allegations, reading the FA website, reading news reports and reading blog reports of several fan websites including our own, QPR's and Crystal Palace's who's fans have taken great interest in the plight of their local rivals, particularly after their own points deduction last season.

My conclusions should give QPR fans real concern and should only lead to one possible outcome, and are as follows:

1. The charges faced by QPR are extremely serious and are fundamentally two-fold. That they broke third party player ownership rules that were clearly established and made clear to all clubs after the Tevez affair, and that (in my view more seriously) they then attempted to cover up this breach in October 2010 by submitting falsified documents to the FA.

2. Alot of people compare the QPR situation to West Ham's with Tevez, however when charged West Ham held their hands up immediately and many feel this helped them avoid a points deduction, plus there was never any real suggestion of attempted fraud, ultimately it was found that they had broken the rules but, lets say, they had perhaps been naive of the rules. QPR on the other hand have refuted the claims the FA have brought (which as we have seen with Rooney recently doesn't go down well with the FA), and we have the added issue of an attempted fraud.

3. This fraud element moves this (in my view) into a very different scenario and one which people haven't suggested as a comparison, but here goes 1990 Swindon Town. If you're not old enough to remember Swindon won promotion from what became the Championship to what would become the Premier League via the play-offs but were found guilty of making illegal payments to players and a few weeks later were relegated two divisions by the FA this was later reduced to a one division relegation and they found themselves back in the Championship.

4. It is this precedent that I feel will mean that QPR will face a points deduction at least.

5. Many people have said that the FA have screwed up by delaying the decision until the last week of the season, I think this is entirely deliberate and is ultimately the right way to have handled this - consider the Swindon example from 1990. The charges against Swindon were identified well before the end of season playoffs but the FA sensibly allowed the season to run its course with all teams trying their best. Some might say it was cruel to Swindon fans to let them experience promotion however had they lost the playoffs presumably they would have been relegated to what became League One, instead of back to the Championship i.e they faced a one division relegation as their penalty regardless of how they finished up. I think the FA are using this as a precedent, to give no indication of a points deduction so that all teams play to their potential without bringing the integrity of this Championship season into question. QPR may need to gain promotion to the Premier League in order that they are relegated back to the Championship and not League One as with the Swindon case.

6. Consider if QPR had been given a 10 point, 30 point or even a relegation as a punishment announced in March. How would this have affected their own players approach to remaining matches and what impact would that have had on the points earned by the teams they later played who could have had an unfair advantage playing against a team that had psychologically imploded. Far more sensible to delay any announcement so that everyone assumes no points will be deducted, so the chasing pack give it their all and assume that 3rd place misses auto-promotion, and 7th place misses the play-offs. This would ensure that no one can have any complaints of unfair advantage when a decision is made.

7. Also if a relegation is the penalty imposed then if this had been announced in March it would have meant QPR would have had to gain promotion to the Premier League to ensure they stayed in the Championship. This would clearly be an intolerable position to put them in at that time or indeed for the other clubs so the FA, by delaying the decision, have ensured the integrity of the season, and also giving a massive hidden clue that a points deduction at least is guaranteed. Consider the alternative, if it was just a fine then impose it now, why wait?

8. Points deductions are imposed for far less serious offences. A club going into administration, which mostly happens due to mismanagement and not fraud guarantees a 10 point deduction. Luton Town were deducted 10 points for illegal agent payments and a further 20 points for issues around their administration status. This effectively relegated them out of the Football League! QPR should be looking at a minimum 10 point penalty plus an additional penalty for attempting to deceive the FA. The treatment of Luton Town demonstrates that the FA will impose the rules ruthlessly regardless of the implications to the punished club. Hereford and Torquay were deducted 3 points and 1 point respectively for each fielding an illegible player in their match on 1st February. This was the day after the transfer window closed and basically resulted from clerical errors in the form filling process of players signed in the last few hours of the transfer window. So a c**k up, not fraud, but resulted in points being docked. If QPR don't get a points deduction for what they have done then it will fly in the face of the precedent set down to all other clubs.

9. In summary then I believe QPR will face something like a 30 point penalty deduction, as that is the scale of the seriousness of the offences, which assuming they fill one of the top two slots will equate to a relegation. All this talk of legal cases are a smoke screen. The FA have QPR bang to rights and determining the penalty is all that needs to be agreed. They are going to take a very dim view of the attempt to deceive them, as they did with Luton Town.

10. A 30 point deduction would place QPR out of even the play off mix, allowing for the playoffs to proceed unhindered.

http://forum.planetswans.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=97573

I dont agree with his prediction of the outcome of a 30 point deduction (i think they'll just get a fine), but the other points he raises are all very valid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a QPR fan, I haven't a clue what to think anymore, but it has soured what should be a celebratory end of season for achievements on the pitch THIS season. As the story has evolved into chinese whispers in the press with different media outlets having different angles to push, it's hard to know exactly what has gone on, whether we're guilty and of what - so many different people have so many different opinions, one day I read something and I'm in the depths, the next I read something and I'm optimistic. If we're guilty, punish the club appropriately, but have sympathy for the fans who just want their day in the sun after so many years of drudgery at Loftus Road, and have sympathy for the playing and coaching staff who have little to do with what has gone on and have achieved superbly this year. We all want to celebrate but can't celebrate whilst this hangs over the club. Sadly the over-riding feeling I have is that it's yet another scandal that sours football for me and will lead to an eventual full on disinterest. I lost interest in the Premier League and Champions League a few years ago, my own team going into the Premier League doesn't really excite me - I'd almost rather stay in the Championship (of course I wouldn't - ever the hypocritical football fan - but football still has a semblence of excitement for me in the lower leagues). Friday can't come soon enough, finding it quite hard to focus on anything else. If worst comes to worst, the one positive is that we might see the back of Paladini - the latest in a long line of rotten chairman.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From one source I was reading earlier (a QPR fan) it seems that the player was signed BEFORE the FA bought in the new rules on third-party ownership, but AFTER the Tevez scandal and subsequent hoo-ha over who should be relegated.

I'm finding it hard to understand why they should be deducted points, unlike some of the more obvious financial irregularities that have happened this season, or certain clubs concealing who owned them for example...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read - I think on RTE Teletext, so no real agenda to push there - that there were irregularities in the paperwork for a contract extension that Paladini lodged recently (October 2010?) So while the original contract may be dropped through a loophole, the extension might not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From one source I was reading earlier (a QPR fan) it seems that the player was signed BEFORE the FA bought in the new rules on third-party ownership, but AFTER the Tevez scandal and subsequent hoo-ha over who should be relegated.

I'm finding it hard to understand why they should be deducted points, unlike some of the more obvious financial irregularities that have happened this season, or certain clubs concealing who owned them for example...

I think the rules for the FA came into force in 2008 (not quite sure) and qpr didnt sign faurlin till 09.

The points deduction comes about, because thats the punishment that was set for this offence. Whether we agree with it or not, if they find them guilty but dont apply the punishment- why would any other club bother to obey the rules? Do the FA say, okay the rules are starting now, for real this time?

Any time a club breaks these rules, they could legitimately argue that they shouldnt be punished as QPR werent.

The rules were specifically brought into force, to avoid a repeat of the tevez fiasco.

Personally, I think QPR have been the best team this year and deserve to go up. But then they shouldnt be allowed to get away with breaking rules, that every other club is abiding by- just because they've had a good season. If that makes sense.

Faurlins been outstanding, and a big part of thier rise- yet its possible he shouldnt have even been elidgable to play for them.

Any game hes played in, hes had an impact on in some way.

One of the charges is falsifying documents isnt it? Which is a prett big charge really.

But, then as graham says theres so much floating around its impossible to know the truth yet. They could be innocent of all charges :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was under the impression we 'hired' Faurlin before the rules were put in place so in effect when the deal was made broke no rules, the rules were then put in place post Tevez-gate, at which point we approached the league and the FA to make the hiring a permanent signing at which point we were deemed to have broke rules that were put in place after the hiring. Chinese whispers see?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was under the impression we 'hired' Faurlin before the rules were put in place so in effect when the deal was made broke no rules, the rules were then put in place post Tevez-gate, at which point we approached the league and the FA to make the hiring a permanent signing at which point we were deemed to have broke rules that were put in place after the hiring. Chinese whispers see?

I think...from reading on the web, the rules came into force, about a week or so before qpr announced faurlins signing.

The web seems to have the rules come in around the 4th of july, with faurlin signing for qpr about a week later.

Even so, surely qpr management wouldve been aware these rules were coming in, and when,as they were announced along time before.

But then without specific and exact dates, qpr could well have signed him before that time and only announced it later. Which maybe why they are confident.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's a thought for this saga.

1. QPR are not deducted any points

2. QPR win the Championship trophy

3. QPR are not allowed to go up

4. Play-offs are played as normal with teams from 3rd-6th

5. Only two sides are relegated from the Premier League

A_Simples_Life.jpg

;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish this QPR thing was sorted - I want to start stressing about the play offs and bit about what to do with the Burnley ticket in my pocket and Swansea getting promoted in third place (although at least then it would remove the Jacks at wembley stress, but then we'd lose to someone else - arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh)

Stupid bunch of bottling piss head prima donna idiots managed by a miserable scouse set in his ways prat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An interesting piece from the guardian, related to the qpr shenanigans- but this time regrading cardiff

Same division but different rules for Cardiff City

• Cardiff cannot face same charges as QPR

• Welsh club answerable only to League and FA of Wales

Share26 Matt Scott The Guardian, Thursday 5 May 2011 Article history

Events at the Cardiff City Stadium are governed by the FA of Wales, rather than the English FA. Photograph: Barry Batchelor/PA Wire/Press Association Images

Cardiff City will have no case to answer from the Football Association even if it is proved by the Football League that they have permitted third parties to exercise control over their players. At a time when Queens Park Rangers face a possible points deduction over the Alejandro Faurlín affair, differing regulations apply to the third-placed Welsh club in the same division.

Seven days before FA charges arose against QPR in March, Digger revealed that Cardiff hold arrangements that may point to similar third-party influence over team affairs. Cardiff's director and lawyer, Alan Whiteley, denies that the agreements the club hold with the Cayman Islands-registered Player Finance Fund (PFF) constitute third-party influence. The matter is the subject of an ongoing investigation by the Football League.

The arrangements pre-date the League's adoption of third-party rules at the beginning of this season. So its inquiry relates instead to whether Ray Ranson, the former chairman of Coventry, exercised any influence over Cardiff's affairs through Sport Asset Capital, his investment company, or the apparently connected PFF, as indicated in Cardiff's accounts. This would be illegal under dual-influence rules.

It is believed Ranson, who along with his friend and vice-chairman, Gary Hoffman, quit Coventry in March, denies that either he or any company connected with him has made loans to Cardiff. Complicated?

There is one simple fact, however: even if it were proved that Cardiff players were under the control of the chairman of a rival Championship club – which under FA rules might ordinarily lead to a severepoints deduction – there could be no repercussions as there are against QPR. That is because Cardiff are answerable only to the League and to the FA of Wales. An FAW spokesman said on Wednesday: "We have nothing in our statutes to cover third-party ownership of players." Surely it is time for Welsh clubs for them to yield to English rules.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/05/cardiff-city-qpr-third-party-ownership

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the Fuckwits at the FA have now said that no decision will be made regarding QPR until Monday at the earliest.

So QPR can't celebrate properly on Saturday and us and the Jacks have to go out and play what are likely meaningless games at full throttle in case they mean something.

This is depsite the league announcing that the play-offs will go ahead on time and QPR will get the trophy on Saturday.

I hope nothing happens to QPR, but if we do end up getting promoted on Monday afternoon while I'm in work then I'll wonder what the point of watching football live is anymore. Might as well just play Football Manager if promotion occurs in a meeting and I celebrate with a jammy dodger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.