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EA charging second hand users to get online


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This 'developers don't see a penny from second hand sales' thing is nonsense. Every secondhand game has a subsidiary value. So, many people trading their games are doing so in exachange for new releases. No, it's not the same as every single purchase being new, but why should it be any different from all other industries in this respect?

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I dont see anything wrong with what EA are doing....

Isnt that up to the consumer though? If they feel that GameStop etc are a rip off, then they can go elsewhere, like ebay or something. Do YOU always buy new cars, or do you shop the 2nd hand market?

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I dont see anything wrong with what EA are doing. I would rather see the money go to the developers than to companies like GameStop or in the UK places like GAME or Gamestation. If you think GAME and Gamestation are bad then believe me they are nothing compared to GameStop/EB Games in the US/Canada, usually they sell preowned games for about $5 less than the full retail price, theres no real special deals like you find in the UK like the 2 for 20 or 4 for 20 pounds and the trade in prices are just plain awful, for example I asked about trading in Resistance 2 which they sell used for $27, the price I was offered was 50 cents, Assassins Creed 2, a game they sell for $55 preowned and they offered me $7 trade in.

No exaggeration there, they were the actual prices you were offered? :)

Surely nobody in there right mind is going to accept as little as 50 cents on a game they sell on for $27. That's flat out insane. Surely there must be alternative trade points with more competitive rates.

Regards the whole EA online thing, I agree with the folks who suggest that single player and online should be charged separately. Sell the games at a day one price of 29.99, and if you want to play online you have to sign up with the publisher for an additional tenner. That way nobody is being short changed except the shops who are exploiting the piss out of publishers.

Gamers who don't play online much or at all don't have to shoulder the cost of maintaining servers or developing ever more extravagant online modes, and the second hand copy you buy is cheaper and identical to the new copy bought day one.

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Whilst that makes sense Robo we're kidding ourselves if we believe the likes of EA wouldn't try and scupper games even for those who don't play online. If it was logistical they'd require every game to require online authentication, whether you use the online features or not.

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I don't think second hand gamers are what the industry is concerned over, but rather the high streets aggressively pushing that stock so it gets sold ahead of the reduced margin new stuff.

This system would mean I can't do things like buy a game off a mate or forumite, or even borrow one that has a lot of online content. It's true that I can't do either of these things with a digitally distributed copy, but then for me the only benefit of a physical copy is that it isn't tied down. I can pass it to family, swap it for something else, loan it to a mate or bring along to a party.

It's all well and good saying that Game et al are evil and taking money out of the industry, but I like doing the above and Game don't see a penny from any of it.

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No exaggeration there, they were the actual prices you were offered? :(

Surely nobody in there right mind is going to accept as little as 50 cents on a game they sell on for $27. That's flat out insane. Surely there must be alternative trade points with more competitive rates.

Regards the whole EA online thing, I agree with the folks who suggest that single player and online should be charged separately. Sell the games at a day one price of 29.99, and if you want to play online you have to sign up with the publisher for an additional tenner. That way nobody is being short changed except the shops who are exploiting the piss out of publishers.

Gamers who don't play online much or at all don't have to shoulder the cost of maintaining servers or developing ever more extravagant online modes, and the second hand copy you buy is cheaper and identical to the new copy bought day one.

Yep those were the actual prices offered, I was also offered $25 on a PSP 2000 which they sell for $130. I asked how they can offer prices like that and the response was that if they had a lot of copies of a game then the trade in value decreases, which is fair enough except for the fact they dont lower the price they sell the games for :)

As for my comment about the developers not seeing a penny being "nonsense", sorry but I beg to differ. If I buy a game preowned then the developer for that game doesnt see a penny, im not talking about the industry itself not getting anything. For example if I traded in a copy of say MW2 which I bought new for a used copy of Fifa, EA would be making nothing from it, yes the used copy of fifa would have been bought new to begin with but with me getting a used one EA have just lost one potential sale.

Its a difficult situation and all the time there are retail copies of games its going to continue to be a problem but at least EA are trying to come with ways where the consumer is not being screwed over. If you dont play online or have no interest in that feature buy it cheaper preowned, if you want the complete package and do plan to use all the features buy it new.

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As for my comment about the developers not seeing a penny being "nonsense", sorry but I beg to differ. If I buy a game preowned then the developer for that game doesnt see a penny, im not talking about the industry itself not getting anything. For example if I traded in a copy of say MW2 which I bought new for a used copy of Fifa, EA would be making nothing from it, yes the used copy of fifa would have been bought new to begin with but with me getting a used one EA have just lost one potential sale.

But there are only so many copies of FIFA in circulation which at some point were all purchased new. The developer has received a proportion of those sales already. Now perhaps on this occasion EA don't benefit from the trade directly but next time someone might trade in a copy of their old MW2 for a new FIFA, and so on. These things even themselves out, but there's no deying that there is a subsidiary value in those secondhand games which part funds the gaming industry - as a whole.

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But there are only so many copies of FIFA in circulation which at some point were all purchased new. The developer has received a proportion of those sales already. Now perhaps on this occasion EA don't benefit from the trade directly but next time someone might trade in a copy of their old MW2 for a new FIFA, and so on. These things even themselves out, but there's no deying that there is a subsidiary value in those secondhand games which part funds the gaming industry - as a whole.

Well that depends, personally when Im usually trading games in I trade them for other preowned games, in the UK at least. All the time Ive been living in Canada though I usually go for a new copy as there isnt that much difference in price between new and used. And thats not even factoring in places like ebay or other online auctions/forums where people sell games for cash. As I said its a difficult situation, am I happy about EA doing this? No, but I can understand the reason behind it.

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JUst because you personally don't trade old for new doesn't mean other people don't. Every single game holds a subsidiary value which doesn't just drop away the moment you leave the store. It carries that value throughout it's life and it's quite reasonable to expect that copy of MW2 to be traded again and again, against old and new products, due to the cyclical nature of the industry and its release schedule.

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It'll be interesting to see what impact this has on online sessions once it goes live; it'll help demonstrate those that go online just because it's there from those for who online gaming is a key component of a title.

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JUst because you personally don't trade old for new doesn't mean other people don't. Every single game holds a subsidiary value which doesn't just drop away the moment you leave the store. It carries that value throughout it's life and it's quite reasonable to expect that copy of MW2 to be traded again and again, against old and new products, due to the cyclical nature of the industry and its release schedule.

So says the guy on an internet forum. You don't think that EA the multi million dollar company haven't thought this through? Fuck pre-owned.

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I don't see the problem with this whatsoever.

Depends how its implemented IMO. If you pay 1200 points for an online license and then from that point all DLC is free i'd be very happy with that. If I buy a 2nd hand game and then have to buy an online license AND all the DLC content I want i'll be a bit peeved.

I do like the idea of games being released vanilla or in a multiplayer pack though. If I could get games like Red Dead Redemption cheaper just for the single player i'd be all over that

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Yeah definitely, refuse to stock games from one of the biggest publishers out there.

This could easily happen. Blockbuster video have refused to stock films by Warner and Disney before, and Odeon famously boycotted Fox films for several weeks until Fox gave in over terms. EA are only big if stores actually sell their games.

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This situation is comparable to new cars coming with free insurance for a year and second-hand cars not, isn't it?

If we're doing analogies, that is.

Not to mention 2nd hand cars being of exactly the same build quality of a car bought brand new.

Games are digital properties remember

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No-one has explained why this is different to the used car market. Car manufacturers pour billions into the R&D of cars, then see diddly squat from the 2nd hand market. Can anyone explain why the games industry is magically different?

When you go into an authorised car dealership to buy a new BMW, the salesman doesn't try to sell you a used model that offers EXACTLY the same performance as the new one, for half the price, completely shafting the car manufacturer.

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That's EA's choice though. They could have used the perfectly good infrastructure that is Xbox Live. But they wanted control. So the end user is forced to pay his 'road tax' and then they go and tax his feet as well.

And as someone else has pointed out, there are only ever 'x' amount of retail games in circulation being played which have all been paid for at full price at some point. There is no extra burden to EA unless you count unused stats of the players who've sold their copy on.

A lot of people choose to buy second hand simply because it's cheaper i.e. they do not perceive full price to be good enough value. Now if EA start penalising these customers they won't force them to buy new next time, they'll just lose a customer.

If you buy it 2nd hand then you're not an EA customer anyway, so they haven't lost anything

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When you go into an authorised car dealership to buy a new BMW, the salesman doesn't try to sell you a used model that offers EXACTLY the same performance as the new one, for half the price, completely shafting the car manufacturer.

And second-hand games don't require extra cash for repairs and servicing.

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I dont see anything wrong with what EA are doing. I would rather see the money go to the developers than to companies like GameStop or in the UK places like GAME or Gamestation. If you think GAME and Gamestation are bad then believe me they are nothing compared to GameStop/EB Games in the US/Canada, usually they sell preowned games for about $5 less than the full retail price, theres no real special deals like you find in the UK like the 2 for 20 or 4 for 20 pounds and the trade in prices are just plain awful, for example I asked about trading in Resistance 2 which they sell used for $27, the price I was offered was 50 cents, Assassins Creed 2, a game they sell for $55 preowned and they offered me $7 trade in. Companies like GameStop make huge amounts of money by fucking over the consumer and theyre the only ones making the money, the developers dont see a penny and the consumer is only saving around 5 bucks per purchase. Obviously its a bit different in the UK but EA are an american company so I imagine this is being thought up more with the american market in mind.

That is very, very shocking.

But here's a way the publishers can fix that- bring back budget and compilation releases. If the average US gamer is getting fucked over on a trade in, so there is almost no benefit at all in trading a game, then the publishers can easily affect the preowned market. If they brought out budget releases, say 18 months after the initial release, then the preowned market is worthless- the retailers could only sell the game for $5/£5 less than the current budget release. Or bring out a game compilation on a couple of discs for full price.

They'd have to be careful that the market doesn't become like the 8 bit days when everybody held out in buying a brand new game, as you knew it would be in a compilation or budget release within months. Or on the cover of a magazine. Good times....

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If you buy pre-owned games you're a dunce anyway. I have never seen a title pre-owned that I couldn't get cheaper online brand new, ever. Pre-owned prices are just ridiculous.

Do YOU always buy new cars, or do you shop the 2nd hand market?

Can I get a brand new car online for cheaper than it'd cost me second hand? No? Oh.

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When you go into an authorised car dealership to buy a new BMW, the salesman doesn't try to sell you a used model that offers EXACTLY the same performance as the new one, for half the price, completely shafting the car manufacturer.
And second-hand games don't require extra cash for repairs and servicing.

You both seem to be implying that 2nd hand games are worth as much as new games. That is fantastic news. Please drop me your email address, I have some games you might want.

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No, they're highlighting that the quality of a second hand game - the game - doesn't change. The packaging, the manual, the disc, they're all subject to wear and tear. The underlying game is identical, and experience is identical. That's not really true of a second hand car.

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No, they're highlighting that the quality of a second hand game - the game - doesn't change. The packaging, the manual, the disc, they're all subject to wear and tear. The underlying game is identical, and experience is identical. That's not really true of a second hand car.

In both cases (games/cars) when you buy (or sell) 2nd hand its worth less money. I understand the point that the 'quality' doesnt deteriorate, but the monetary value unfortunately does. This means you're still trying to find a difference between 2nd hand car market and 2nd hand game market.

Or you can start arguing that the 2nd hand book market, or 2nd hand dvd's or 2nd hand paintings all should have a way of reimbursing the original creator.

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No, they're highlighting that the quality of a second hand game - the game - doesn't change. The packaging, the manual, the disc, they're all subject to wear and tear. The underlying game is identical, and experience is identical. That's not really true of a second hand car.

Exactly. With most physical products - cars, books, clothes, etc. - there's a very tangible difference when you buy a shiny new one. With games this is not really true, and has been getting decreasingly true over recent years. You can of course partly blame the publishers for this anyway; while lots of games have a collector's edition, they've been undermining the value of the package you buy for quite a long time by having nothing included but a cheap standard plastic box and a tiny pointless manual.

I don't see the point of worrying about the impact upon the secondhand market anyway. Within a few years it'll disappear altogether when everything's distributed digitally.

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