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Yiggy

Retro TV Choices for Gaming

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Defo not PAL borders, It ran with a larger screen through composite, not WS mode either as the Saturn was full screen through the same Scart socket. The scart lead in question gave the same results though my Master System MK1

Changed the Scart lead and now runs fine! Spent the morning juggling stuff around the gameroom, Mastersystem went back in the loft, MS Powerbase convertor came out! Space saved!!

dsc01682ju.jpg

Nice rig!

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go into standby

press osd/info button

then 5

then volume up

then the tv/square button

That's perfect. Thanks Dandy. Just did this and now my picture is perfect. Aces.

It should display TT in the corner. Then press menu

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Moved into student halls a few weeks ago and made a little habit of picking up GC/Mega Drive/N64/SNES stuff as I see it out and about.

Problem is that the only thing here to use as a screen is a Samsung P2370HD, which while being dead good and looking really nice with the PC anything less than component looks like a bag of arse and even component stuff looks a bit stretched. It's a 23" 1080p panel intended to be used as a monitor for a computer I think.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/sony-trinitron-21-inch-tv-/150521544500?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_Video_Televisions&hash=item230bc87f34#ht_500wt_1156

Only Trinitron on eBay is 21" and the seller wants a shocking £50. Not even seen a 4:3 screen in years so can't remember if 21" would be too big, too. Only ones on Gumtree are Dell Trinitron monitors.

Any other ideas on what I should be looking for? Their feedback includes Kings of Leon tickets, a fairly comprehensive amateur homegrow set up and something about smoking crack weed so God knows if they'd be willing to go a bit cheaper, given you can find these things on the street. Can't exactly just nip down to the local tip as I'm car-less and dragging a telly back from even residential areas surrounding Liverpool would ruin me.

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I have one of those 21" Trinitrons that I bought from new for my retro needs but the picture always seemed fine to me. What are you guys adjusting in the service menus?

EDIT: Oh, a cut off image... Didn't seem to have that problem via RGB!

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Revive. I finally got a hold of Batsugun for Saturn, so naturally I stuck the tv on it's side and fired up tate mode. Gorgeous, except the image needs centering a little better and possibly a decrease in v-size. Problem is that despite getting into the service menu it won't let me adjust the numbers. IIRC it took me ages to work around this when i got it because there was a trick to it but I'm buggered if I know what it was.

tl;dr, remote won't let me adjust the service menu settings.

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Are you trying to adjust when playing it in 60hz mode? If I remember rightly when I had my Sony it would only adjust picture size in 50hz mode. Does your Saturn have a 50/60hz switch? Change it in 50hz mode and flick into 60hz to see the effect of your changes.

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I almost broke my back this morning dragging in an old Trinitron someone had curb dumped. There had been some rain so I'll leave it a day or two to dry out.

Here's hoping it works!

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Are you trying to adjust when playing it in 60hz mode? If I remember rightly when I had my Sony it would only adjust picture size in 50hz mode. Does your Saturn have a 50/60hz switch? Change it in 50hz mode and flick into 60hz to see the effect of your changes.

Yeah this could be it. I've finally and quite literally just got my Pc Engine working properly in RGB and it fills the screen nicely. I think it's just Saturn in Tate mode thats off, I never noticed a problem in regular viewing modes so it may just be Batsugun. I have to adjust the screen in my arcade cab pretty much every time I change the game :facepalm: so I might be a little over sensitive to it :unsure: If everything else is matching up fine I'll just put up with it for the odd game that may want adjusting.

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ps1, ps2 and especially cube should be fine. Snes will most certainly be rubbish.

I think stiff's assumption that lcd=atrocious is misguided but at the same time, crt is king for your requirements. An LCD will never match a crt for retro but Lcd's vary hugely in retro capability. It might be reasonable for one console but awful at another. You just don't know until you try. My lcd is fine with Pc Engine, but 60hz Snes has unstable vsync for example. Whatever happens the tv will be upscaling the picture to over 4 times it's original pixel count, but as that screen is only 19" it should be tolerable, plus it'll definitely support NTSC

A crt would be cheaper and much better, but that lcd should be acceptable

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I actually still have a 28" widescreen Panasonic CRT in the garage and I'm trying to find room for it, I was just curious about one of these as an alternative is all. It would fit nicely into the study where I have my main and retro PC.

I didn't think it would be that great but thatnks for the answers anyway.

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Any LCD that has a vga in will be fine. Again though the image will be upscaled to fit your pixels as the VGA image is a lower res so again it's a bit variable. Better chance of a good picture than with a scart input though. An old CRT scalable vga monitor would give the best image.

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Would anyone be interested in taking an old CRT off my hands? It's a 32" widescreen JVC AV-32WFR1EK that I used for years before upgrading to the obligatory HD flatscreen. It was bought for gaming, and supports every signal format you could possibly throw at it. I'll happily let it go for free to a good home if someone is willing to come and pick it up from here (Croydon).

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I dragged my Panasonic back up and it was definitely the right choice even if it does take up a lot of room.

Back in the day I always assumed all PS2 games supported 16:9 but after loading up a few games I instantly noticed how stretched they looked so I did some googling and it's shocking how few games on the PS2 even supported widescreen.

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I'm thinking of getting another crt. I have a 21" Trinitron which is great, but it's mono and doesn't do NTSC over composite and I have a console that is composite only and can't be modded. The local ones are 28" wide and I don't really have the room for a screen that size nor is it easily rotated. 21" is perfect for most retro consoles. Big enough that you can really appreciate the stunning RGB quality where applicable, but small enough that it's easy to squeeze into most enviroments

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Has anyone any experience of this nifty looking piece of kit?

http://www.arcadeforge.de/?page_id=745

Heard about it today and figured this thread was a good place to post about it.

Basically takes a VGA signal and puts scanlines on it for HD tellies.

Interesting thread on Shmups about it all...http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33454

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I'm thinking of getting another crt. I have a 21" Trinitron which is great, but it's mono and doesn't do NTSC over composite and I have a console that is composite only and can't be modded. The local ones are 28" wide and I don't really have the room for a screen that size nor is it easily rotated. 21" is perfect for most retro consoles. Big enough that you can really appreciate the stunning RGB quality where applicable, but small enough that it's easy to squeeze into most enviroments

21" is definiatly the sweet spot for retro gaming in a modern modest household with a partner around. I have a 21" Trinitron upstairs for most retro needs and its 14" cousin downstairs on the Amiga.

Did I dream it or do they not reccomend using Trinitrons for rotation? Something to do with that metal line going through the middle of the screen not liking it.

I really do FEAR that in 15 years when my two have blown up that we'll all be a bit stuck.

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Has anyone any experience of this nifty looking piece of kit?

http://www.arcadeforge.de/?page_id=745

Heard about it today and figured this thread was a good place to post about it.

Basically takes a VGA signal and puts scanlines on it for HD tellies.

Interesting thread on Shmups about it all...http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33454

Is that just for VGA signals or RGB too etc? There was some testing done elsewhere in this thread on upscalers with quite unfavourable results.

I suppose VGA to HD should be theoretically easier to blow up.

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I remembered the other posts about upscalers in this thread so figured this was the best place to post it in, looking back Rob did a lot of looking into this stuff.

Im not really up with the tech on all these sorts of things but I think its just for a VGA signal in from a console and then puts out a VGA to the HD telly with added scanlines.

From reading the thread I linked on Shmups it looks to me like a lot of folk are going from console to an upscaler then through the SLG3000 and then to the telly so the image is getting processed twice.

My initial understanding is that this wont do any upscaling itself will just add scanlines, could be wrong though.

The shmups thread get a bit to tech heavy for me at times but if you go through it from about January onwards, about page 9ish I think, you can find lots of screenshots and descriptions from folk using it, there are also some video reviews on Youtube if you search for “SLG3000”.

Im still trying to work out if I prefer having the scanlines on or not, I’ve sat looking at some of the comparison pics for a bit and Im totally on the fence. Some guy on Shmups is using with his 360 and has pics of Deathsmiles up, I not sure why you would want to add scanlines to something like that as Deathsmiles looks pretty good to me.

What am I missing.

What are folks thoughts on them? Better with or without?

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This clip gives a good demo of it running from a Saturn, SNES and Gamecube.

He does mention that a scaler would be needed for consoles that don't output VGA.

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This clip gives a good demo of it running from a Saturn, SNES and Gamecube.

He does mention that a scaler would be needed for consoles that don't output VGA.

Thanks for the link. A really well put together video.

Upscalers have been mentioned in this thread, and one or two of you may recall that last year I contacted the MD of Coosis, who kindly offered to send me one of their models to test out.

The device allows you to plug a SCART connector into it, and then from the device, you can connect it to your flatscreen TV or monitor via VGA or HDMI.

When I plugged my SNES into my Panasonic Plasma (without using the upscaler), the graphics were blocky, but looked horrible without scanlines. Also, on sidescrolling games, you'd get a vsync line every 10 seconds or so, coming down the screen.

With the upscaler in, the blocks were more rounded (looking like some sort of poor emulation filter), and I felt, actually looked worse. Also, instead of the vsync issue, the screen would stop for about a 10th of a second every 10 seconds or so.

I'm tempted with the SLG 3000 though, as I'd like to try out MAME on it.

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No worries, I though it was the best video of the SLG on Youtube.

It was your time with the Cossis upscaler that i was remembering when looking for somewhere to post about the SLG, took me a minute to find what thread that was in though.

The guy in the vid talks about himself using a "cheap scaler", i always thought they were quite an expensive thing though, anyone any ideas what he might be using?

There is a lot og scaler talk in the Shmups thread as well but to be honest I was getting a bit lost with it all.

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Question with these upscalers, does this create lag at all? Is it noticeable lag? That's the thing that's really put me off playing PS2 games on my Samsung...

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Im still trying to work out if I prefer having the scanlines on or not, I’ve sat looking at some of the comparison pics for a bit and Im totally on the fence. Some guy on Shmups is using with his 360 and has pics of Deathsmiles up, I not sure why you would want to add scanlines to something like that as Deathsmiles looks pretty good to me.

Theres no contest, DeathSmiles was of course developed for arcade screens first and even though 360 mode looks great with it's use of master renders, it looks much better with scanlines, as will any such game. I don't use the SLG, but I have a downscaler in my cab because although my cab will handle the 360 output at 640x480, it looks so much better when pulled down to 320x240 because you then get the natural scanlines from the crt which aren't noticeable in 640x480. Despite the lower displayed resolution ( the console is still outputting 640x480 native) the games look superior to the higher res output. That's on a 29" CRT so it's going to make a huge difference on a LCD/Plasma when you use scanlines on a higher res image.

I originally decided not to get the SLG as I was going to use it in my cab but didn't need to. I don't really need one for my lcd as i have a Trinitron next to it for that sort of thing. I might take the plunge at some point though, you can't really go wrong.

I think the DeathSmiles images speak for themselves. It's not necessary, but it's certainly a great improvement on an already great output (it might also make arcade mode playable on a big tv!)

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I think what Im finding is that it’s the zoomed in images that are not swaying me one way or the other, I think that seeing it properly in front of me running would be easier for me to compare.

I might consider the SLG for my own mame cab, it’s a reasonable price that its worth a punt on, finding the time is a problem for me at the moment though as I’ve a new baby on the way so time is limited, my cab has been relegated to the garage at the moment as well due to having to sort everything out.

Out of interest, what is wrong with Deathsmiles arcade mode? I played it on a 42” LCD telly and had no problems with it, although Im not into shooters as deeply as some so it maybe a more specialist thing that a more serious player would notice.

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There is no point using the slg in a mame cab, you can set mame up to use scanlines. If done properly it can do a good job. Although if it's a 15khz screen there is little benefit anyway, the screen should be doing it naturally.

With DeathSmiles it's not a specialist thing so much as a person with eyes thing. Being cave's first modern port there is no real scaling algorithm on arcade mode, which means it looks awful, especially if you resize the screen to avoid playing in a tiny box. This is because the game just outputs the 320x240 mode of the original so it's per pixel unless resized, in which case it stretches the pixels. On a HD screen this is a mess especially at 42", however on a 21crt over RGB it looks great because the pixels aren't being stretched. On 360 mode it's all running at a higher res so it scales better. Cave's later ports fix things up so there is scaling involved and it looks ok. They double the pixels instead of scaling for example. SLG on 360 mode is a good way of getting a arcade quality image.

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