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BBC 6music isn't closing and is awesome!

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Other than some of those in the commercial media sector, which segments of the public are genuinely against the BBC? I don't get it - I'm right of centre and I love the Beeb and I'd expect many of my friends and family to feel the same way, regardless of political bias.

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Other than some of those in the commercial media sector, which segments of the public are genuinely against the BBC?

People who watch ITV and read News of the World.

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You get the odd Sky-cretin who comes out with stuff like “why should I be forced to pay the license fee? I only watch Sky and ITV!”

They crop up on here every so often, but I don’t think I’ve ever met one in the wild.

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I think if you don't watch BBC you should have to pay double the normal license fee as a punishment for the fact you're clearly going to be a burden on society.

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If Radio 1 is for 12-25 year olds, and Radio 2 is for 50 year olds then what the fuck is left for the rest of us?

I miss Adam and Joe :)

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Not in a good way, though. He seemed more interested in beating up the BBC as an organisation than asking why they are cutting something that the bbc was set up to deliver like 6 Music.

It was pretty lol when he read the BBC 4 schedule for the night though. :lol:

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The more I think about this, the more I think it's an elaborate game of brinksmanship between Mark Thompson and the Tories. It seems like they specifically chose two stations that ostensibly have low ratings (and therefore are candidates for closure) but have very loyal and rabid fans. Maybe he has no intention of shutting these stations down, he just wants to try so that in the future if/when the Tories demand cuts to the BBC he can say "but look at the public outcry when we just tried to shut 6 Music and the Asian Network! They wouldn't let us!".

I'm probably granting Mark Thompson too much intelligence there though.

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You get the odd Sky-cretin who comes out with stuff like “why should I be forced to pay the license fee? I only watch Sky and ITV!”

They crop up on here every so often, but I don’t think I’ve ever met one in the wild.

I have - they drive me nuts.

Last night I watched The Thick Of It, Burnistoun and Newswipe.

A great evening of awesome telly.

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The more I think about this, the more I think it's an elaborate game of brinksmanship between Mark Thompson and the Tories. It seems like they specifically chose two stations that ostensibly have low ratings (and therefore are candidates for closure) but have very loyal and rabid fans. Maybe he has no intention of shutting these stations down, he just wants to try so that in the future if/when the Tories demand cuts to the BBC he can say "but look at the public outcry when we just tried to shut 6 Music and the Asian Network! They wouldn't let us!".

I'm probably granting Mark Thompson too much intelligence there though.

I was thinking exactly the same earlier, and came to much the same conclusion. It would be fantastic if true, but it's probably just wishful thinking.

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The more I think about this, the more I think it's an elaborate game of brinksmanship between Mark Thompson and the Tories. It seems like they specifically chose two stations that ostensibly have low ratings (and therefore are candidates for closure) but have very loyal and rabid fans. Maybe he has no intention of shutting these stations down, he just wants to try so that in the future if/when the Tories demand cuts to the BBC he can say "but look at the public outcry when we just tried to shut 6 Music and the Asian Network! They wouldn't let us!".

I'm probably granting Mark Thompson too much intelligence there though.

When I'd calmed down a bit I thought exactly the same thing. It is a way of demonstrating to the Tories that cutting the BBC, even what appear to be quite marginal services, is extremely unpopular. I hope this is the case!

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When I'd calmed down a bit I thought exactly the same thing. It is a way of demonstrating to the Tories that cutting the BBC, even what appear to be quite marginal services, is extremely unpopular. I hope this is the case!

I hope it's this, combined with a message to the public of "if you vote for the Tories, this is just the tip of the iceberg".

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Sad thing is, before the whole '45 minute' claim, and the BBC getting an utter kicking from the government for rightly criticising them, the Beeb has been getting more and more spineless.

Rather than make the point of how unpopular closures would be in this roundabout way, once upon a time they would have just argued the point aggressively and directly.

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http://www.chickyog.net/2010/03/02/how-abo...ot-for-6-music/

How about a bit of solidarity for the BBC if not for 6 Music?

So Mark Thompson, Director General of the BBC, wants to shut down the 6 Music and Asian Network radio stations. He couldn’t even give a consistent and coherent reason why.

I have a fierce affection for 6 Music – its innovation, its constant ability to surprise and delight, the laughs it’s given me and the fine records it’s put in my colllection – and as a consumer of very little else of what the BBC produces, I’m feeling quite hard done by today.

Now, maybe you don’t listen to those stations or maybe even actively dislike them. But if you have any regard or affection for the BBC, you should be fighting for those stations’ survival nonetheless.

Thompson, once again, has shown himself today to be a shabby and craven managerialist with a cloth ear for what the BBC is supposed to be about (and what a section of his salary-payers want). He’s bowed before corporate interests rather than those who fund the BBC and pay his corpulent wages.

Like I said, he couldn’t even do it coherently. ‘There can be no turning back on our digital journey,’ he said. So closing two digital radio stations isn’t turning back? ‘Some critics… will never stop in trying to further erode the BBC,’ he went on. Some critics don’t need to erode the BBC when they’ve got an inside man doing it for them. It’s the abasement and the lack of fight and the willingness to please entirely the wrong people that’s hard to stomach.

As in most things, one finds oneself in agreement with Anton Vowl…

I’ve said before, personally 6Music never really troubles me at all, and I can’t stand George ‘Sacrificial’ Lamb. But on the other hand, I spent a pleasant morning listening to live cricket on Radio 4 from Bangladesh, and I’d be mightily pissed off if that sort of thing got chucked out of the window.

Anton uses a tortured movie metaphor (6 Music is the limping Richard Harris being slotted by Richard Burton – played in this metaphor by Mark Thompson – at the end of Wild Geese to prevent him suffering an even worse fate). So here’s one of my own. We’ll call it the Hans Gruber Defence.

Those with no interest in 6 Music or the Asian Network should still defend against their closure and the closing in of those with no love for the BBC. To paraphrase Hans when he threatens Bruce Willis after shooting a hostage in Die Hard: sooner or later they might get to someone you do care about. Don’t think for one minute that the hyenas of the Tory party and Murdoch’s and Paul Dacre’s slavering bands of vandals are going to be satisfied and stop with the deaths of just two radio stations. They are merely the hors d’oeuvres.

I, conversely, couldn’t give a toss about the cricket from Bangladesh that so pleases Anton Vowl (for example) but I see the pleasure it gives many people and I so know for a fact that if the BBC were to sacrifice Test Match Special to appease the howls of corporate predators like Rupert Murdoch and his princeling son, that would be a very bad thing.

This isn’t just about defending two radio stations with minority audiences it’s about defending the ethos of what the BBC stands for. 6 Music and the Asian Network provide services that simply cannot be found in the commercial sector (please don’t suggest I go and listen to offal like XFM). It’s what the BBC does best and what it was created for.

If you love the BBC then you must realise that in the years ahead you’re going to have to fight for it. So, please, campaign for 6 Music and the Asian Network. And the next time Mark Thompson bends his knee before critics far less talented and innovative and brave than his staff, and sacrifices more of the BBC to the gods of cultural barbarism, I’ll write letters defending Test Match Special or whatever it is you want to save.

(The decision to close 6 Music and the Asian Network is not final. It must be approved by the BBC Trust which is holding a public consulatation. You can email your contribution to them at srconsultation@bbc.co.uk and complete the online survey here. J Hunt has an excellent post on how best to campaign. There are signs that we’re being heard. )

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I was thinking exactly the same earlier, and came to much the same conclusion. It would be fantastic if true, but it's probably just wishful thinking.

I read something similar yesterday and then heard the same rumour from an odd place; there could be something behind that idea (or people are just desperate to believe in it as it's the less evil situation.)

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Adam Buxton trying to start a fight with Thompson on Channel 4 News was pretty gigglesome.

I thought it was a bit shit. He was much worse than Bobby Friction. They should have had Lauren Laverne speaking up for 6Music. Clever lass.

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I thought it was a bit shit. He was much worse than Bobby Friction. They should have had Lauren Laverne speaking up for 6Music. Clever lass.

She hasn't got a beard though. Beards denote POWER.

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I thought Buxton was good. Laverne is a very good, though!

Not to take this off topic, but am I the only person who thinks Laverne's show is a bit shit?

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Not to take this off topic, but am I the only person who thinks Laverne's show is a bit shit?

Compared to George Lamb, whom she replaced, she's the love child of John Peel and Guglielmo Marconi.

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She's fine by me. If anything I'd say Nemone is slightly weaker.

Shaun Keaveny / Gideon Coe beforehand are great though. Nice and relaxing like a morning show should be.

That's one of the best bits of Guy Garveys show, in fact. Even disregarding the music, the blokes presenting is so relaxed he practically sounds asleep himself.

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For those who are interested, the public consultation that has been referred to in the news can be accessed here (available til the 25th May):

https://consultations.external.bbc.co.uk/de...on/consult_view

Seems worth a try (more so than joining yet another facebook group)

I've just thrown in my tuppence worth to that consultation. In the interest of urging everyone else to have a crack as well, here's what I said.

BBC Strategy Review: Your Response

The BBC's strategic principles

. Do you think these are the right principles?

No Answer

. Should the BBC have any other strategic principles?

As a public service, the BBC should provide programming that the commercial sector is

unable or unwilling to provide.

Proposed principle: Putting Quality First

. Which BBC output do you think could be higher quality?

No Answer

Offering you something special

. Which areas should the BBC make more distinctive from other broadcasters and media?

Providing niche programming that are unviable or unattractive to commercial

broadcasters. 6music is a perfect example of this.

The Five Editorial Priorities

. Do these priorities fit with your expectations of BBC TV, radio and online services?

No Answer

Proposed principle: Doing fewer things and doing them better

. We welcome your views on these areas.

If the BBC wants to do less overall in the interest of achieving higher quality, then surely

the areas to cut are those which are already well-served by the commercial sector - by

definition, the mass-market offerings such as daytime programming on Radios 1, 2 and 5

and the entire output of BBC3. On the other hand, the BBC already provides very high

quality, and highly-regarded, niche programming of which Radio 6 Music is a perfect

example. By definition it will never have a huge audience (although its current audience is

artificially constrained by its digital-only status) but it is exactly what the BBC should be

providing as a quality public service. In my opinion 6 Music has already joined Radio 4 and

BBC 4 as the BBC's crown jewels of quality programming. To close it in "the pursuit of

higher quality" seems nonsensical.

Proposed principle: Guaranteeing access to BBC services

. If you have particular views on how you expect BBC services to be available to you, please let

us know.

No Answer

The BBC archive

. Please tell us if you have views on this area.

No Answer

Proposed principle: Making the licence fee work harder

. If you are concerned about the BBC’s value for money, please tell us why.

No Answer

Proposed principle: Setting new boundaries for the BBC

. Do you think that the BBC should limit its activities in these areas?

The principle that the BBC should not blindy pursue a 'programming arms race' with

commercial broadcasters is sound. However, some of the proposed limits seem to be

inconsistent with the very policy they purport to implement. For example, while commercial

broadcasters can and do compete with the BBC's mainstream radio offerings (e.g.

daytime programming on Radios 1, 2 and 5), the commercial sector has completely failed

to deliver what might be called 'intelligent adult' programming along the lines of BBC 4,

Radio 4 or 6 Music. This is hardly surprising as articulate, thought-provoking content is not

generally sought by the mass-market; however it is for precisely this reason that the BBC

should provide these services as a public good. If the BBC genuinely wants to limit its

activities in truly competitive markets then chart and mainstream pop music (daytime

Radio 1 & 2), mainstream talk radio (5 Live) mainstream TV (prime time BBC 1) and mass

market 'youth/young adult' TV (BBC 3) are the areas to focus on as these are

demonstrably sought after and provided for by commercial broadcasters. Conversely, I

see no evidence for "considerable demand" from other broadcasters to cater for the

'intelligent adult contemporary music lover' market, and so closing 6 Music strikes me as

unnecessary action targeted at completely the wrong end of the spectrum.

Similarly, the principle of reducing expenditure on, for example, American dramas is sound, but it should

be more focused and better defined. So while the BBC should leave commercial

broadcasters to fight amongst themselves over mass-market programmes such as

Desperate Housewives and True Blood (I imply no value judgement here: I enjoy both!),

the BBC seems to me to be the natural home of intelligent, critcally-acclaimed dramas like

Mad Men and The Wire, and I would want this to continue.

. Should any other areas be on this list?

If the BBC genuinely wants to limit its activities in truly competitive markets then chart and

mainstream pop music (daytime Radio 1 & 2), mainstream talk radio (5 Live) mainstream

TV (prime time BBC 1) and mass market 'youth/young adult' TV (BBC 3) are the areas to

focus on as these are demonstrably sought after and provided for by commercial

broadcasters.

Edit: ack, I've just noticed my typo towards the end. Critcally-acclaimed? So much for trying to come across all clever like.

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I#m surprised BBC 4 costs so much. I know viewing figures are tiny and it has a lot of relatively expensive yet niche dramas and documentaries, but considering everything they make gets repeated ad infinitum...

Something like Newswipe must cost pennies to make.

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I imagine the cost-to-viewer ratio is so high because so few people watch it, rather than because BBC4 programmes are especially expensive. But at the same time, the show's documentaries and stuff are very handsomely shot and obviously weren't made on the cheap, so it probably costs a fair bit to run as well.

There was a (very good) documentary on the other night called 'The Man With The Golden Gavel' about a Gatsby-ish auctioneer that must have been pretty expensive to make.

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But hang on... isn't that bar graph totally skewed by the fact that BBC4 (and BBC3) isn't on 24 hours a day like BBC1 and BBC News 24?

Don't really see why - it's cost per hour watched, not per hour broadcast, and I doubt "free" content like BBC1's News 24 and BBC2's Teletext are popular enough to skew the figures.

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But hang on... isn't that bar graph totally skewed by the fact that BBC4 (and BBC3) isn't on 24 hours a day like BBC1 and BBC News 24?

To some extent, but then the channel "space" is used by the children's channels during the day.

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