Spec Ops: The Line

[Vorgot]

Am really enjoying this on easy after struggling on normal. Treating it more as an interactive story than a game as such, as easy is a cinch to get through. Only up to Chapter 7 (I think), but I played to there in one sitting. I'm terrible at shooters so for it to hold my attention for this long so far tells me it's a bit different from the usual shooter.

The story is intriguing so far, a bit sad to see the negativity above as I'm not that far in yet, but am definitely going to stick with it.

[Timmo]

I've had about seven or eight separate sessions on this and still the end isn't in sight.

As a shooter it's really boring. Some of the drama has been stomach-churningly shocking though, so I guess it's doing its job. I just wish it wasn't such a slog to get through.

[SeanR]

360 ok? pm me an address...

to borrow I mean, I've got the PS3 versio on PS+ anyway.

OK, now I can send it to you!

I totally didn't see that ending coming. Everything else has been already said at great length.

5hrs 12mins

both epilogues, but not sure which choice is which from just before that.

actually...

[womblingfree]

Downloaded this on PS+ mostly to see what the "OMG" bit was. I think I've reached and passed it, but there were some scenes before and after that equally matched it' for me. Personally I didn't feel they were particularly effective, but they were an interesting choice. More of a missed opportunity than anything groundbreaking though.

As for the gameplay I found it fun but repetitive.

[NecroMorrius]

Totally agree. That and everyone in the game is so bloody hateful no matter what side they are on you could happily nuke the place and I couldn't have cared less

Not sure if serious

Great post from feltmonkey a few pages ago. Probably one of the most interesting uses of (and commentaries on) the medium this generation. I keep hearing about "twists" and "omg moments" but everything the game does well it does gradually, almost without you noticing.

[strawdonkey]

Just finished, definitely one to play on Easy - the number of times I died because Nolan Bloody North wouldn't go in to cover when I wanted him to was infuriating.

The phosphorous nuke section was pretty powerful, though I could tell that something was wrong when I fired the final nuke well before it showed you the twist. Also interesting that you slowly realise that Walker is going crazy long before it is spelled out to you, though the extent to which he is afflicted took me by surprise a little.

Sweet soundtrack too. Lots of Mogwai. More games need Mogwai.

[Comrade]

They're not nuclear, mate.

[strawdonkey]

They're not nuclear, mate.

Fair. Artillery is probably a better way of describing it.

[jonamok]

And done. A grim story well told, if a little predictable. What are Yager doing now/next?

[Untogether]

Yager 2.

Actually, that would be pretty sweet.

[Monkeyboy]

This is currently a fiver on Xbox Live, so bought it, and I'm enjoying it a lot, even though I feel like I'm pretty much done with military shooters. Nice to see people actually exploding when I attach a sticky grenade to them as well, rather than just flying backwards with their body parts intact. Just got to chapter 8, after reaching a bit of a sticky point at the end of chapter 7. As is the way with these things, once I'd killed everyone, and the checkpoint kicked in, I found a rocket launcher in the area that would have been dead handy. Nolan North's voice is a bit too familiar these days though, the association with Nathan Drake sometimes pulling me out of the story.

[Smitty]

Total and massive spoilers, naturally. For those who have played the game.

[robdood]

That video's ace, I just wish he would speak a bit slower! His other stuff is great, too.

[Spacehost]

Just finished this in one of my mammoth two-night runs. Definitely one of my favourite shooters in recent memory. Smart, subversive, focussed, unsentimental and intelligent, willing to crib readily from the better bits of Kojima's work now and again and a rare example of a properly miserable arc in videogames.

[Spacehost]

Metal Gear Solid does a much more nuanced job of decrying the horrors of war. Hell the trailer for the new one does.

It really doesn't, and I'm so far up Hideo Kojima's anus I'm on first-name terms with his prostate. MGS talks about the horrors of war, but Spec Ops subverts the genre to make your actions in the game complicit with what the game's on about on a far more meaningful level.

[Fury4k]

I still can't feel the love for this game. Bland, iritating gameplay and a cliched and poorly told story featuring some of the most forgettable characters in recent gaming history.

[jonamok]

I'm somewhere between Spacehost and Fury on this. It certainly didn't live up to the levels of forum hype, but it was a largely enjoyable shooter, which often looked stunning, but was peppered with some irritating combat bowls and was slightly too pleased with its terribly grown-up Heart of Darkness stylings.

[feltmonkey]

great video, Smitty. thanks for posting it.

Fury, i think the fact that you keep mentioning the "story" is telling as to why you've missed the point here. there's not just Gameplay and Story - The Line is more about what both those things are saying. no other game ever made has so effectively used the gameplay itself as part of it's commentary. i would recommend you watch that video Smitty posted (i know it's long, but it's worth it.)

i suppose it's inevitable that The Line would be misunderstood by some people - so few games have anything to say, so we're not used to looking for meaning. the MGS games do sort of have a message, but they comment on their own bizzaro reality rather than the real world. they also seem utterly confused with themselves. they don't come close to the nuance and intelligence of The Line.

[Smitty]

I'm somewhere between Spacehost and Fury on this. It certainly didn't live up to the levels of forum hype, but it was a largely enjoyable shooter, which often looked stunning, but was peppered with some irritating combat bowls and was slightly too pleased with its terribly grown-up Heart of Darkness stylings.

People liking the game and saying how much they liked equals 'hype' apparently. Other people's appreciation of something is not offered up as a guarentee that you'll feel the same way.

[Fury4k]

great video, Smitty. thanks for posting it.

Fury, i think the fact that you keep mentioning the "story" is telling as to why you've missed the point here. there's not just Gameplay and Story - The Line is more about what both those things are saying. no other game ever made has so effectively used the gameplay itself as part of it's commentary. i would recommend you watch that video Smitty posted (i know it's long, but it's worth it.)

i suppose it's inevitable that The Line would be misunderstood by some people - so few games have anything to say, so we're not used to looking for meaning. the MGS games do sort of have a message, but they comment on their own bizzaro reality rather than the real world. they also seem utterly confused with themselves. they don't come close to the nuance and intelligence of The Line.

I'm not sure I've missed the point of it, I think I'm aware of what it's trying to do with the way the narrative and gameplay inform each other, but I don't think it's very effective because neither of those things are very well done in my opinion. I think that type of synergy between the two has been much more effective in games like Brothers. I will watch that video at some point because I enjoy that sort of critical deconstruction, but I've listened to podcasts and read articles talking about the game and have just felt that they came off as yearning for something that isn't there - talking about what I see as deficiencies in the gameplay as a purposeful subversion of the genre and the players expectations of it.

[Spacehost]

I haven't really seen any hype for it, except that it's an exceptionally competent shooter with a very well executed narrative vision. A mark it totally hit.

I really liked how it went from stereotypical brown shootmans environments to increasingly bold, almost hypersaturated areas towards the end. It had an almost surreal colour palette in the final acts.

Another thing- it's not long. It's only about 5 hours or so. It doesn't overstay its welcome. More of this sort of thing! There's no padding.

[Smitty]

Brothers is barely a game, as much as I enjoyed it (a lot). It's a very poor comparison given that it's an interactive storybook and as such has absolutely everything tipped in its favour over traditional mechanic and systems driven games (actual games).

When the makers of Brothers can make, say, a third person shooter with a story of the same quality come and talk to me. It's rather a bit harder to fit such a developed story around that form. And yet The Line does very, very well at doing that.

So I find it churlish in the extreme chastising The Line for its mistakes when it tries to do things that few games do and succeeds with many of them. Perfect? No. Pretty good and to be praised for attempting to be something of some worth? Yes. Some of it doesn't quite hit the mark but where it does it is powerful and remarkable. It's noteworthy for that.

When all is said and done they didn't have to attempt it at all. They did and it's rare kind of game they ended up with so i'm all for it.

[Smitty]

I haven't really seen any hype for it, except that it's an exceptionally competent shooter with a very well executed narrative vision. A mark it totally hit.

I don't really see how post release opinions can really be defined as 'hype'. I always thought of hype as overly-excited pre-release anticipatory masturbation based on little information, as opposed to considered views disseminated after release after having digested the entire experience.

For 'hype' read 'positive opinions that I didn't ultimately share'. Meh.

[Spacehost]

I always thought of hype as more of a catch-all term for considerable buzz around something, particularly pre-experience though not strictly pre-release. The stricter meaning is definitely rooted in the word's origin, "hyperbole", though, an excessive and unsupported excitement over something.

Let's not argue semantics though. I can understand someone playing this and finding the gameplay unoriginal and the story predictable. I didn't mind.

[Fury4k]

I think it's good that it attempted what it did (more games need to if the medium is ever going to develop beyond its adolescence) and I'm glad that so many people seem to be able to take so much from it, but for me it wasn't successful in any of those lofty aims. I mentioned brothers as it's a recent game that has been praised for doing what Felt monkey claimed no other game has done effectively.

[Smitty]

It's a recent interactive storybook that unsurprisingly (given its format) is able to present a strong story because of that same format. It's not like there's much gameplay getting in the way of the narrative.

It's comparing chalk and cheese to say the least.

[Fury4k]

I just watched that video, the guy does a reasonable job of explaining the game's aims, but it's nothing I haven't thought or heard before.

It's a recent interactive storybook that unsurprisingly (given its format) is able to present a strong story because of that same format. It's not like there's much gameplay getting in the way of the narrative.

It's comparing chalk and cheese to say the least.

Its a platformer that uses the gameplay and narrative to reinforce each other. The games are of different genres, as are the stories, but the techniques they employ aren't dissimilar.

[danbot]

Can you explain a bit how they're similar? I just don't see it.

[feltmonkey]

I'm not sure I've missed the point of it, I think I'm aware of what it's trying to do with the way the narrative and gameplay inform each other, but I don't think it's very effective because neither of those things are very well done in my opinion. I think that type of synergy between the two has been much more effective in games like Brothers. I will watch that video at some point because I enjoy that sort of critical deconstruction, but I've listened to podcasts and read articles talking about the game and have just felt that they came off as yearning for something that isn't there - talking about what I see as deficiencies in the gameplay as a purposeful subversion of the genre and the players expectations of it.

but the deconstruction and savage criticism of the genre is definitely there. are you saying we've all kind of invented that in our own minds?

[Fury4k]

but the deconstruction and savage criticism of the genre is definitely there. are you saying we've all kind of invented that in our own minds?

No, I'm not saying its not there, I'm saying its about as effective as if the guy who directed Double Impact tried to remake Apocalypse Now.

Can you explain a bit how they're similar? I just don't see it.

Well each of the games both develop their own and appropriate pre-existing gameplay techniques and then later subvert them in order to give their stories more punch.