Spec Ops: The Line

[Captain Novaforce]

Completed this in two sittings. Really shouldn't have done it with a hangover and feeling a bit miserable. I think I need therapy now

I generally don't play army games - but this did make me think back at how many people I've casually shot in mass effect or uncharted. Yeah they are cartoony however this is the first game I've played where you have to face the consequences of being a murderous bastard. I'm trying to think at what point I stopped enjoying it, probably the radioman bit or just after was when I realised that I was just making things worse. But I slugged on - even when loading screen were actually telling me to stop. In the end I let konrad shoot me , as I really didn't want to fire another bullet. Looking back I think I would have preferred the go home ending.

Also fucking white phosphorus man, and Israel used that shit in Gaza? Fucking hell.

[Smitty]

Man I loved this.

Anyway I was just reading a piece about what games do that other narratives can't and saw this:

[Smitty]

(Holds fingers in ears) LALALALALA (Doesnt look at any posts in thread) LALALALALALA

Just picked this up and have blundered my way to erm oh hang on (rest of post in spoiler to avoid any spoilage as I dont know that much plot)

beginning of chapter 6 or 7 I think just about to "save" Gould.

Now I obviously know there is a "twist" that lifts the story to a different level as I read that before I got this, its the reason I got it as the premise is a bit hackneyed and the action is fairly basic but polished pretty well.

So question is... so far there have been some twists and turns between CIA and 33rd and another faction of 33rd. Can I assume that the twist that takes this to the next level hasn't happened yet?

Cos if it has I am not impressed, I had heard it was only a few chapters in you see so kinda expected it by now. Impatient I know but I dont want to play rest of game and be disappointed by lack of twist (for me).

you can simply reply with a one word answer of NO if I havent got to the good part yet

To be honest the 'twists' are there from the start. I'll give you an example:

Right near the start you walk in on a CIA agent interrogating one of Konrad's soldiers. The CIA agent turns after hearing you, which gives the soldier an opening - he grabs the agent's gun and shoots him in the head. The game is already telling you it's theme: unintended consequences. You will fuck things up for people just by introducing yourself (and your violence) into the situation. Some guy just got killed because you showed up.

So the soldier guy gets up, talks jive and points the gun at you defensively (whilst there is a hostile exchange with guns pointed, he leaves quickly, saying that his captain is 'just downstairs'. But you can actually shoot him during this bit. Killing someone you just risked your life to rescue? So now two people are dead. Oh wait, the game's themes again.

Just after this you descend down the ropes where the soldier just scarpered. In this room two things can happen: if you let the guy live (or should I say you weren't crazy enough to gun him down) you hear the guy you saw upstairs shout 'there they are' some out of shot and then him and a handful of soldiers burst into the room and try to kill you. If you shot him upstairs, no soldiers rush in.

The point being that in letting him go, even though it seemed like the right thing at the time, you unwittingly allowed him to go and set up an ambush for you. Again, unintended consequences. Even the right moral decisions can lead to outcomes you expect or indeed want.

For me those bits are the real 'twists' of the game, the parts where afterwards you realise that you were under an illusion that you had control.

[Smitty]

Just looking back through the thread, this was funny:

[V3zna]

It's just too grim this. I admire the developers for trying something different with a tired genre but I don't enjoy playing it. The whole point is obviously not to enjoy playing it but still, it's just too unrelentingly dark. A thought provoking attempt at a video game but every time I come away from playing it, it leaves me in an odd mood. Not one I particularly like.

[Rorschach]

Story was okay, 'game' was a bit shit. Would recommend to rent / buy on the cheap and play through on easy, but only if you have a particular interest in games that try to contextualise their violence. It is not entirely successful (there were plenty of times in the game where I was just killing lots of mans, and failed to see the larger point), but it's still interesting to see their ideas play out. Obviously there is one bit that stands out, and you probably know what it is, but I'll spoiler this anyway;

The phosphorus was incredible. Just like those bits in COD when you're raining death from above, but instead of 'winning' and then loading the next level, Walker looks up from the targeting computer and immediately sees the results of his actions first-hand. Making you walk through the scores of dead soldiers and civilians afterwards was very effective. It's a shame the rest of the game isn't similarly inspired.

Interesting what he says in the interview above about the NPC actors, that they were directed to perform as if they were main characters. I didn't notice it that much, but I suppose I also didn't notice them shouting obnoxiously, or behaving like comedy relief buffons (which are the two options most games go with). The Last of Us takes a similar approach, where some of the human NPCs actually have really charming and witty exchanges. It's hard for your violence to have any weight when the people you're killing don't act at all like people.

[Simmy]

I really want to play this for the story which everyone seems to rave about, but the game play just feels awful.

[Rorschach]

Well, like I said, play it on easy to burn through the shooty bits. I certainly regretted playing it on Normal; every retry feels like a punishment, rather than an opportunity to do better. In fact some sections feel like a punishment on the first go. Not out of difficulty mind, just tedium.

As a result, and my incompetence, I did end up dieing and restarting enough times to detract from the story.

Maybe I'm just making excuses, but for me at least, the fact that it's mechanically quite basic and there's a lack of variety meant I tried to rush through the firefights. Rushing means mistakes and careless deaths, so I actually probably spent more time playing the bits I didn't like due to this approach. There were a few occasions where I got the 'do you want to switch to a lower difficulty?' message, and I staunchly refused for some reason.

[Captain Novaforce]

It's just too grim this. I admire the developers for trying something different with a tired genre but I don't enjoy playing it. The whole point is obviously not to enjoy playing it but still, it's just too unrelentingly dark. A thought provoking attempt at a video game but every time I come away from playing it, it leaves me in an odd mood. Not one I particularly like.

Its tough, but really see it through.

Although if you walk away now based on that feeling or your conscious... You are probably a better human being than the rest if us.

[danbot]

It's not morally reprehensible to enjoy the violence and horror in this game. I found some of Spec Ops pretty grim but I never felt any sort of guilt or doubt about my character.

Do you think that maybe some people get/got a little carried away with the whole "...only way to win is to stop playing..." thing?

Aside from a couple of moments I enjoyed the experience from beginning to end.

[Rorschach]

Imagine if someone was watching a film, and it was getting a bit dark / violent, so they walked out. Could they then say their experience of the film was as valid as anyone else's? Of course not, they didn't watch the film. They watched a bit of the film, which is different. Obviously Yager designed the game to be played from start to finish. You as the player question the protagonist's actions, and the game in turn questions your willingness to participate in them, without any pause for thought. They're not trying to get you to turn off the console though. They're not actually trying to make you feel bad, they're just trying to make you think.

[cavalcade]

Games aren't films.

[danbot]

Analogies are analogies.

[Smitty]

(there were plenty of times in the game where I was just killing lots of mans, and failed to see the larger point),

Just killing lots of mans is the (one of) the points.

[Rorschach]

True but it was like, haven't we covered this already? I guess if I felt like I was just mowing down people to get from point a to point b, this probably parallels Walker's desire to press on regardless of the consequences. But it was also pretty dull.

[Captain Novaforce]

That's kinda what made it so harrowing wasn't it? Like you got really good at it, pushed forward, put your time in, and it felt rough and never ending. I guess what s really bad real life combat situation might feel like.

[CarloOos]

I didn't think there was anything dull about it, mechanically it's a very competent and (particularly on the higher difficulties) tactically rewarding shooter. It stands with, and in many instances above, the vast majority of its genre contemporaries on a purely gameplay level.

It's certainly not as if Yager have designed a mind-numbing slaughter fest to make their point, you certainly mow down many people (which is a core part of their meta-textual message), but it's not deliberately mundane, far from it. If it wasn't enjoyable to play on some level then the whole thing would have been for naught, the player is supposed to feel compelled to press on thanks to whatever visceral desire it is that pushes us to massacre along merrily in all such titles.

[Smitty]

The Dead End Thrills series on this is stunning:

[Fury4k]

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[Hello Goaty ♥]

I've not even played it!

Anybody want to send it me?

[robdood]

After reading through this thread I can tell this isn't going to be a popular post, but I finished this last night and thought it was terrible. Don't get me wrong, I think its heart is in the right place and what it tries to say and do is laudable. But for me it just didn't succeed on any level.I found the game play derivative and bland, often frustratingly so. I felt patronised by the story - which didn't manage to strike a chord with me, I think if it was a book, or a film it would be laughed about. I understand a lot of people loved it and I think I understand why, but I also think its been done so much more competently before.

I'd like an example of a game that does it more competently, please!!

[Fury4k]

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[robdood]

I meant more the commentary on military shooting games and the phyche and expectations of those that play them.

[Fury4k]

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[SeanR]

I've not even played it!

Anybody want to send it me?

360 ok? pm me an address...

to borrow I mean, I've got the PS3 versio on PS+ anyway.

[monsly]

I thought the comparisons with Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now fell well short for me. Both of those I found far more interesting and thought provoking. I think my main problem was it never felt realistic at all; the story seemed rather nonsensical and that just took me out of the game.

Even the white phosphorous scene, which was perhaps the most memorable, totally lost its impact with the final shot of the woman and the child. Felt so forced and unsubtle.

[Fury4k]

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[JohnnyNolan]

Totally agree. That and everyone in the game is so bloody hateful no matter what side they are on you could happily nuke the place and I couldn't have cared less.That along with the at best mediocre gameplay I ended up ditching the game not too long after that section.

[Plums]

It's worth finishing just for the spectacle of some of the later episodes. The section on the rooftops leading up to meeting the DJ is just utterly, utterly spectacular. Like, first time you see Omega station in ME2 spectacular. I agree with most of the last few comments though. If only they'd actually made the core game more enjoyable I think I might have really loved it. It's one of those games I'll go back and play again at some point, on easy.

[Fury4k]

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