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Dune - Denis Villeneuve to direct!


womblingfree
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I liked the film (it turns out I like pretty pictures and big parping soundtracks and so on) but I agree it's badly-paced and not always well-told. You don't spend enough time with Gurney or Duncan to really feel their loss (maybe you do with Leto.) You don't have enough time pre-betrayal to feel the impending doom or the fear of that betrayal, and the pacing of it makes the setup look nonsensical - they're on Arrakis seemingly overnight before it all gets overturned.

 

You're told by the characters that it all makes sense, but I didn't feel like it actually did.

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46 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

I liked the film (it turns out I like pretty pictures and big parping soundtracks and so on) but I agree it's badly-paced and not always well-told. You don't spend enough time with Gurney or Duncan to really feel their loss (maybe you do with Leto.) You don't have enough time pre-betrayal to feel the impending doom or the fear of that betrayal, and the pacing of it makes the setup look nonsensical - they're on Arrakis seemingly overnight before it all gets overturned.

 

You're told by the characters that it all makes sense, but I didn't feel like it actually did.


Exactly this, well put!

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1 hour ago, Uncle Mike said:

I liked the film (it turns out I like pretty pictures and big parping soundtracks and so on) but I agree it's badly-paced and not always well-told. You don't spend enough time with Gurney or Duncan to really feel their loss (maybe you do with Leto.) You don't have enough time pre-betrayal to feel the impending doom or the fear of that betrayal, and the pacing of it makes the setup look nonsensical - they're on Arrakis seemingly overnight before it all gets overturned.

 

That's true.

 

For me the biggest loss from the book is something that the Lynch film also omitted:

 

Spoiler

The whole subplot about them having advance warning that there's a traitor, and some characters believing that it's Jessica, while the Duke retains trust in her.

 

That was one of my favourite bits of the book because it builds up the betrayal more; deepens the relationships Jessica has with the Duke, Thufir and Gurney; and adds to the tragedy because some characters stay mistaken about who was responsible.

 

I suppose it'll be possible to incorporate some of that in the sequel, when they get to (book spoiler):

 

Spoiler

Gurney Halleck spending five years believing that Jessica was the traitor, and attacking her the moment he sees her again.

 

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3 hours ago, Fargo said:

Saw this for the second time today and I think I enjoyed it even more on the second viewing. 
 

Never read the book but it’s on my Christmas wish list now😀

Oh you’re in for a treat. 

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Have to admit, I'm tempted to give it a read as well. As much as I see the book bleeding into others'  viewpoints of the movie, I can see it also appears to enrich the movie experience for many as well.

 

Watched it again today, still love it. My comment about Paul's dreams being 'purely metaphorical' were indeed off, on this third viewing I paid more attention just how many visions Paul has. They're definitely metaphorical in nature, but they do appear to be different versions of future events. :)

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Resisted the temptation to watch the version on the high seas and watched this in a cinema. Although not the IMAX version. I'm a huge fan of David Lynch's version, yes it's flawed but it's somewhat of a guilty pleasure for me. 

 

After seeing the new one there were elements I preferred in the new one and things I preferred in the old one. 

 

Cast - Tie.  In the new one the actors are a lot more restrained than the wildly overblown acting in Lynch's version. I preferred Kenneth McMillan's pus filled, maniacal baron in Dune 84 over Stellan Skarsgaard's interpretation and of course Patrick Stewart was a better Gurney than Josh Brolin. But I always felt McLachlan was a bit too old for Paul Atreides and you've got Bautista as the Beast and Momoa as Duncan Idaho to balance it out. 

 

Production Design - Dune 2021 -  New one wins this hands down. Lynch's version had some fantastic sets and it looked great but the new one feels 'real'.  Everything looks great and you get a sense of being in the desert not in a fanciful set somewhere in a studio. 

 

Special Effects -  Dune 2021 -The 1984 version was always a bit ropey, even back then. The shield effects were particularly piss poor. New one by a country mile. 

 

Music - Dune 84 - Didn't think much of Hans Zimmer's score tbh. I've forgotten it already. Not a patch on the score by Toto and Brian Eno. 

 

Both of the films omit stuff, the new one doesn't really tell you about Mentats, how the spice extends life and has evolved the navigators but you do get to know more about the Fremen in the new one. Jamis who comes across as a petulant div in Lynch's    in the 3hour studio cut of Dune 84  is better represented in the new one.  

 

The biggest problem with Dune 84 was the final act. The bits up to where Paul joins the Fremen were great, it's the horrible final act which was completely rushed leading to rumours of there being a mythical cut which would reinstate this footage. 

 

Can't really compare them until Dune 2021 is finished. If it were to follow the same steps as the old one, part 2 would last 20 minutes. 

 

At the moment Dune 2021 is in the lead for me but it is an incomplete film. Need to see part 2 when it eventually comes out. 

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As someone who hasn't read the novel, but is a huge Villeneuve fan, I thought this was good. Maybe edging into 'great' at points. 

 

The only stuff that knocked it back was some parts of the world building. I missed that the pale people and the Atriedes lot were all under the rule of the same emperor. The sense of distance was a bit skew-whiff. I have no idea how far the Atriedes home world (Claptrap) was from Dune-place, or how their space travel worked. That sounds a bit facile, but that stuff definitely helps with universe building (especially in hard sci-fi). Not asking for an explanation, by the way, just an observation. 

 

Quick question: at one point Paul says to his mum that she has to put the thing in her nose to breathe, but I don't think that's explained prior. He doesn't even use it himself before this, I don't think. What's the nasal tube deal? 

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Yeah, from memory he doesn't tell her she has to use the nose tube to be able to breathe. He tells her that she needs to put it into her nose and breathe through it? That is a pretty fine distinction if you don't already know what the stillsuits do though!

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:)

It's no big deal, and I think the adaptation (generally) makes it all understandable. 

 

One thing that I found mildly irritating, though: it didn't feel hot. Not helped by them going 'ooh, wear your factor 2000 if you're out in the sun for more than 15 seconds!' then every following shot being of people standing about in broad sunlight, having a grand old time :D

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I had a grand old time with this. Proper big bold full-blooded sci fi epic. Sterling cast, amazing visuals, real sense of grandeur, but grounded at the same time. It kind of lost my interest in the last 20 minutes or so, not sure why. But I'm here for as many sequels as they wanna make. Villeneuve, man, he just gets it. 

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On 09/11/2021 at 17:33, Silent Runner said:

Anyone got 30 grand to spare? You can buy one of the production pitch books that were put together for Jodorowskys doomed Dune movie. Only 10 made apparently. 

 

https://www.christies.com/lot/lot-6345488


I think it’s time to admit that Jodorowskys Dune would have been a car crash on the level of Nic Cage’s Superman.

 

He comes across as an idiot and even admits to having lot even read the book.

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1 minute ago, probotector said:


I think it’s time to admit that Jodorowskys Dune would have been a car crash on the level of Nic Cage’s Superman.

 

He comes across as an idiot and even admits to having lot even read the book.

 

No one thinks it would have been anything other than a car crash, but it would have been the grandest of all car crashes.  And the art is cool.

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On 09/11/2021 at 10:42, Treble said:

That sounds a bit facile, but that stuff definitely helps with universe building (especially in hard sci-fi). Not asking for an explanation, by the way, just an observation. 

Interesting, would you class Dune as hard sci-fi? Going by both movies, I would not not. I'd say they're science fiction with more than a few fantasy elements.

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16 minutes ago, Thor said:

Interesting, would you class Dune as hard sci-fi? Going by both movies, I would not not. I'd they're they're science fiction with more than a few fantasy elements.

 

Hard sci-fi can be defined by technical accuracy, not just scientific accuracy.  Dune fails on the latter, but maybe ticks the former box, given the depths of it's world building? 

 

I'm not sure!

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Finally saw this last night and caught up with the thread. Not read the book.

 

I'm in total agreement with the many posters who said they could have gone straight into Dune 2. It's rare that such a long and epic movie seems to fly by. A testament to the director, editor, writers, and the way it was all brought together.

 

I was really impressed by the ending as well, which eschewed the typical blockbuster bombast, for a more sombre personal moment for Paul. A scene based on tension and character rather than showy CGI. Shows other ways are possible.

 

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4 hours ago, monkeydog said:

 

Hard sci-fi can be defined by technical accuracy, not just scientific accuracy.  Dune fails on the latter, but maybe ticks the former box, given the depths of it's world building? 

 

I'm not sure!

Would something like The Martian fall into hard sci-if then?  Whilst reading that I sometimes forgot it was a novel and not a memoir!

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3 minutes ago, iknowgungfu said:

Would something like The Martian fall into hard sci-if then?  Whilst reading that I sometimes forgot it was a novel and not a memoir!

 

Honestly, I'm pretty sure the term only exists so one group of sci-fi fans can be all pompous towards another.  The Martian, bar the deliberately inaccurate storm, is an attempt to be as hard as they come. Cough.

 

I find it funny that although a big part of the concept is a realistic misadventure based on a NASA derived mission, the human story is really warm and fluffy.  Project Hail Mary is a delightfully warm and fuzzy tail as well.

 

I don't know what it means for both books hardness that the fairly realistic hardware they use looks out of date since Falcon Heavy started flying. 

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Dune's genre, and I'm sure I have seen this mentioned elsewhere, is more of a mythological ancient history epic, than a sci-fi or fantasy story.

 

I can easily see the same story being as interesting if set in ancient Greece and the space ships were sailing ships, and spice was. er, :unsure: spice. Curry powder perhaps. ;)

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I wouldn't class Dune as hard SF (I hate the term too). The story is focused on the social and theological upheavals on the planet, and the abuse of the idea of a messiah - all classic territory for social science fiction. I guess you could make an argument that the book pays a lot of attention on the carefully worked out ecology of Dune, but for the most part, it's just background detail. The various technologies in the book like the ornithopters are completely implausible, and things like the mentats taking the place of computers are nonsensical as well - how could you build and organise a culture like that with only a handful of highly trained specialists to use for any kind of calculation a normal human couldn't do? How would a recon satellite work without computers? How could you build something as big and complicated as a spice harvester?

 

Not that any of this matters of course, and most so-called hard SF is just as implausible as Dune when you get down to it, but I don't think it's part of that sub-genre. In practice, I think hard SF mostly just means "space fiction where they don't use FTL to travel between planets".

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On 07/11/2021 at 14:34, Uncle Mike said:

I liked the film (it turns out I like pretty pictures and big parping soundtracks and so on) but I agree it's badly-paced and not always well-told. You don't spend enough time with Gurney or Duncan to really feel their loss (maybe you do with Leto.) You don't have enough time pre-betrayal to feel the impending doom or the fear of that betrayal, and the pacing of it makes the setup look nonsensical - they're on Arrakis seemingly overnight before it all gets overturned.

 

You're told by the characters that it all makes sense, but I didn't feel like it actually did.

 

I feel the same way now. And after arrival to Arrakis its non stop rush to the end. Just 5 or 10 minutes more with some of the characters, and maybe the dinner scene, would have made wonders. Maybe we will see those in an extended cut. Maybe the movie should have been the same running length but end when Paul and Jessica's ornithopter disappears in the storm while Harkonnen troops round up POWs to be executed by Rabban.

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