Dune - Denis Villeneuve to direct!

[PK]

I really enjoyed this, although I'd always assumed Dune was an epic story of intrigue and political scheming which I didn't really get from the film. It's made me want to finally get round to reading the books to fill in the backstory that it felt like I was only getting a glimpse of in this.

 

Really fantastic film though, thoroughly enjoyed it and could quite happily watch another two of them.

[Thor]

Seen it twice now. Doubt I'll see a better film this year, and it's criminal I had to resort to the high seas to view it - if HBO Max was available in the UK I'd happily pay for it. Ah well. Either way, this is stunning in 4k HDR and I can't wait to buy the 4k UHD disc (something I don't do often any more).

 

My only gripe with the film is purely superficial, one of musical taste. I fucking detest the sound of bagpipes, they are wholly offensive to my ears; thankfully their use in this movie is very limited, and I'm hoping their use died in this first film.

[JohnC]

Yeah, the space-bagpipes was a little weird.

[Radish]

Aren't you able to see it in the cinema instead of HBO Max?

 

My only weird gripe was the repeated phrase "desert power". It just sounded a bit silly to me. Otherwise I thought it was excellent, incredibly atmospheric and absorbing. I just wish it wasn't such a long wait until we (hopefully) get part 2. 

[Thor]

19 minutes ago, Radish said:

Aren't you able to see it in the cinema instead of HBO Max?

4k HDR, in the cinema? No.  

[Festoon]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

Good, this deserves a sequel. 

 

He says, while watching the 4k HDR rip...

 

Well, you've done your bit.🙄

[ryanm]

This is a well-considered adaptation.

 

I noticed two omissions from the book that in retrospect don't really matter at all.

Spoiler

The interaction between lasguns and shields. I found myself instinctively murmuring "nononono!" and wagging a finger at the screen when the lasgun beam was chasing the shielded thopter, but AFAICR the promised effect never manifests to significant effect in the book, so what of it?

 

Mentats: clever people are already a thing, we don't need whatever duration of exposition about the Butlerian Jihad to understand that the far future has very-clever people.

 

5 brutalist ziggurats out of 5.

[Thor]

37 minutes ago, Festoon said:

Well, you've done your bit.🙄

Hey, I could have just said it deserves a sequel and left it at that. I could also have lied and said I went to the cinema to see it.

 

🤷‍♂️

[Delargey]

The designs of the space ships and vehicles was amazing in this. I loved how brutalist and imposing they where.

[sir podger]

I too watched a 4k rip of it on Saturday. But I was home by myself, and got to watch it in sheer solitary bliss and take in every second. I will go and see it in the cinema, but i equally love and loathe going to the cinema, big screen, amazing sound, total immersion are all fantastic. But the sheer amount of people who just sit there and talk all the fucking way through the film, whether its the couple on a date and she isn't interested and waffles on throughout, or it's the lads trying to out knowledge each other o the films lore, or the other lads who want to talk about how Baz was bang out of order to Tel last week for something or other. And if its not that shower of cunts flapping their pie holes constantly, it's someone else who is actually exercising their pie hole and they are trying to consume the same amount of calories in two hours as Dwayne Johnson does on one of his cheat days.

 

Definitely going to go see this and pay my way, i loved the movie from 25 years ago and i want to see the whole story played out in this version. But I cant watch any blockbuster in the cinema during the first couple of weeks after release because of the morons that ruin the atmosphere.

 

Oh how i wish there was a cinema run by someone like the soup nazi from seinfeld. My perfect cinema would have a membership scheme, you book a seat with your membership card, the chairs would have microphones in them that can detect how much noise you make, if you are a good silent viewer, future films get cheaper and you get preferential bookings. Sir talks-a-lot over there will find his prices just doubled and he's not allowed tickets for release week. All snacks to be served in padded bowls so we don't have to listen to jabba the hutt slowly trying to slip his trotter into the worlds crinkliest bag of minstrels every 30 seconds.

[Radish]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

4k HDR, in the cinema? No.  

 

Huh, I think that's the first time I've heard someone say they'd prefer the quality of a stream over that of going to a cinema. 

[JohnC]

Yeah but he’s got a 4K HDR telly and when you have that you have to take every opportunity to tell everyone. People don’t watch TV any more. They watch 4K HDR TV. 

[Thor]

22 minutes ago, Radish said:

Huh, I think that's the first time I've heard someone say they'd prefer the quality of a stream over that of going to a cinema. 

A few years ago I'd say different. But now? The picture quality available at home (my home, at least), even on a 4k stream, absolutely pisses on what you'll see at the cinema*, so if you take that away, and then add in all the bullshit that Podger rightly mentions above ... no. I am not going to pay money for a vastly inferior experience. The tweets mentioned on the previous page prove the model of combined cinema and home release on a paid subscription service can and does work. That is the future. 

 

*I've also got 4k UHDs of many marvel movies. But on Disney Plus they're available to stream in 4k Dolby Vision. I've rewatched the Marvel movies many times, take a guess which versions I now choose to watch.

[Quest]

Got the whole imax to myself here. Hopefully they don’t forget about me like the last time this happened and they actually remember to start the film.

[Hanzo the Razor]

On 23/10/2021 at 18:09, Stigweard said:

As a side note, Jason Mamoa should never shave his beard ever again.

 

Speaking of beards, I thought that Oscar Isaac's beard gave the best performance in the film. What a beautiful Cornflake catcher!

[Thor]

Yep, definite beard envy from me when looking at Isaac in this. And yes, Jason Momoa should never ever shave his beard again - talk about going from hero to zero!!

 

@Quest Your film started yet?

[Hanzo the Razor]

Anyway I absolutely loved it. The bass on Stellan Skarsgards voice in the IMAX was amazing. The whole thing was well worth the wait.

[Festoon]

10 hours ago, Thor said:

A few years ago I'd say different. But now? The picture quality available at home (my home, at least), even on a 4k stream, absolutely pisses on what you'll see at the cinema*, so if you take that away, and then add in all the bullshit that Podger rightly mentions above ... no. I am not going to pay money for a vastly inferior experience. The tweets mentioned on the previous page prove the model of combined cinema and home release on a paid subscription service can and does work. That is the future. 

 

*I've also got 4k UHDs of many marvel movies. But on Disney Plus they're available to stream in 4k Dolby Vision. I've rewatched the Marvel movies many times, take a guess which versions I now choose to watch.

 

And all for the low, low price of fuck all. It's what Villeneuve would have wanted.

[Davros sock drawer]

Saw it on Saturday. Was pretty excited having heard so many good reports and the Villeneuve interview and review on Wittertainment in the car beforehand.

 

Unfortunately I was bitterly disappointed by it. I am a huge fan of the book, having read it maybe a dozen times, most recently this year. I’m aware therefore that I’m going to be hard to please, but I’m fully prepared for compromises, character deletion - anything that’s necessary to get the story told well for the medium of film. 

 

What I wasn’t prepared for was a total absence of character motivation, huge missed opportunities for easy wins from the book, and for one of the most moreish villains of any work of fiction to be so thoroughly neutered. I also felt it was a remarkably cold film in terms of the performances, and with the exception of Rebecca Ferguson (who just about held the film together, emotionally), nobody seemed to give a shit about what was happening. 

Spoiler

I thought the characterisations and motivations were incredibly weak. For example, what’s Thufir’s motivation for the entire book? Seek revenge on Jessica, because he thinks she betrayed the Duke. In the film? Er…pass. There’s no suspicion subplot in the film, so he’s a completely pointless character now.

 

What’s the Baron’s character in the book? He thinks he is subtle and cunning but he’s actually a loose lipped gobshite who can’t resist bragging and oversharing his plans. He’s delightfully disgusting and hedonistic. In the film? He’s just fat. And boring. And says nothing. From an LA Times article:

 

 

That’s such a bad call it boggles my mind. What a waste of one of the most readable, page-turning villains in sci-fi! You cut out most of the speech of the Baron?! Why?! I can never wait to get to the Barony bits in the book. In this he was utterly bereft of interest. What an utter squandering of material! 

 

What’s the Baron’s motivation in the book? To destroy the Atreides yes, but specifically to install his beloved nephew Feyd Rautha as the ruler of Arrakis, which he does by making the populace so terrified of Rabban that they welcome him with open arms. In the film? Er…Feyd Rautha’s not even in it, and he just hates the Duke a bit for…reasons?

 

There was a perfect example in Dr Yueh’s death scene where they squandered an opportunity to be faithful to the book with a mere smile on Yueh’s face, a look of puzzlement on the Baron’s, and a repeated line. That’s all they would have needed! The book shows here how his overconfidence is shaken by Yueh’s reaction to his “So join her!” line. In fact, let’s just have the whole thing:

 

 

 

 

Now obviously you don’t put all of that detail in the film. But the foreboding and doubt in the Baron’s thoughts could have been covered with a raised eyebrow, or a wavering smile. A glint in Yueh’s eye and a faint smirk of victory on his lips. But no, here it was just a pithy line, no hidden meaning or intrigue behind it, nothing but words. They literally cut everything important out. 

 

Plus of course you don’t give a shit about Dr Yueh anyway, as he’s only been in maybe two scenes, and they haven’t impressed on the viewer how tough it would be to break his conditioning and why he’d therefore be such a shock as the traitor.

 

More generally, they softened all of the edges in all of the characters. I can understand why the Baron’s homosexual paedophilia isn’t going to play well today, but Duncan’s drinking was also cut for example, making him absolutely paper thin as a character (plus Momoa is shit casting anyway).

 

In fairness it did look fabulous but even so I honestly think this is a huge missed opportunity and now there may never be a version which does the book justice. To be fair to Villeneuve, he did say he had decided not to lean on the political back story, and probably the only way it could have been done properly to incorporate all the political intrigue and detail was the Game of Thrones approach. Any film (or even pair of films) is only ever going to be an impressionistic, surface level take on it, or being more generous, to have a different focus. But even so for this to have been made with such simplistic A to B to C plotting, and with no sense of motivation or character is just very, very sad. 

 

I could go on, but I don’t want to yuck too many yums, as clearly lots of you loved this. I can only assume that most people simply haven’t read, or can’t recall the book, but regardless at the very least the motivations matter, even if I realise you can’t provide all the detail from the book. There has to be a reason why the characters are doing what they do, and I couldn’t find them on screen (or hear them - terrible sound for the dialogue at my screening)

 

Anyone who enjoyed this but hasn’t read the book yet is in for a treat if they do.

[Pob]

This was everything I hoped it would be, as someone who read the book for the first time about a year ago in anticipation, and who has never seen the Lynch version. It ended where I thought it would, which I think was as good a place as any to bisect it without making large changes to the structure.

 

Thoughts on how it was adapted:

Spoiler

I must say I didn't miss the 'whodunnit' aspect, as I thought that was the weakest aspect of the book's plot, because the reader already knows who the betrayer is. I'd forgotten that Jessica gets framed, which I guess adds some nice detail as to how wary people are of the Bene Gesserit, but the whole Dr Yueh thing was a bit silly in the book ("How can it be Dr Yueh, he underwent Imperial conditioning at the Suk School, it's simply not possible for him to betray us!" "They kidnapped his wife" "Oh")

One thing I did miss was the Mentats. Given the actors cast in the roles of Thufir and Pieter, I have to assume that their stuff ended up on the cutting room floor. Apart from one rather prosaic moment in the opening section where Thufir does a sum really quickly in his head, there was literally nothing about human computers or how they're used for strategy. I think there's a very brief mention in the book about how humanity had long ago weaned themselves off reliance on thinking machines, which is really all that's needed to communicate how this vision of the future focuses on the optimisation of human capabilities rather than AI. It's such a key part of the lore, it was a shame to have no mention of it. No need to go into any detail about the Butlerian Jihad or anything - I think that's only in the first book's glossary, anyway.

 

Like @probotector, I think the dinner party scene would've been a good one to keep as it's a great excuse to convey some backstory - the ecology of Arrakis, the power dynamics between the various factions etc, and also to show more of the political manoeuvring that's so integral to the book. You can feel the vultures circling in that scene. It would also have given a bit more space before the Harkonnen attack. In the film it feels like the Atriedes have literally just arrived.

 

I wouldn't mind a slightly expanded cut that included those things - do they do that any more now that selling discs isn't really a thing?

 

Overall though I thought it was a superb adaptation. It focused on Paul and Jessica's relationship, which was a good move, and included most of the iconic elements from the book. The first appearance of the sandworm was the standout sequence, I thought.

 

I also loved hearing some of the words pronounced. Having never seen the Lynch version I don't know if the pronunciations from that film are re-used, but the way Charlotte Rampling spat out 'Gom Jabbar' and 'Kwisatz Haderach' was superb! In general they totally avoided anything looking or sounding goofy. The Voice was superbly realised, and they managed to make it feel significantly different to the Jedi Mind Trick, which of course copied it.

 

Fingers crossed it gets a pt 2 (and even 3 - I think Dune Messiah would make a good pt 3 even though I wasn't mad keen on the book). I might go and see it again just to do my bit, and I'll definitely be buying the UHD disc.

[Festoon]

[Davros sock drawer]

Missed the dinner party scene too. One of the best bits of the first half of the book, gets key concepts across, introduces Count Fenring (not in the film, and therefore neither is House Corrino - not a big deal, but it's an easy detail to suggest that there are more than two houses), and is a great moment for Paul too.

[Kevvy Metal]

I was just really mad that they cut Tom Bombadil out. 2/5

[Davros sock drawer]

4 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

I was just really mad that they cut Tom Bombadil out. 2/5

 

Hehe. I get that they need to cut things. Just not things like character motivation.

 

It did look amazing of course. The sense of scale visually was astonishing.

[monkeydog]

The banquet was filmed, along with more Yeuh and Mentat stuff and I image a whole lot of other things.

 

Not sure I want an extended cut, but would like them as deleted scenes.

[Davros sock drawer]

3 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

The banquet was filmed, along with more Yeuh and Mentat stuff and I image a whole lot of other things.

 

Not sure I want an extended cut, but would like them as deleted scenes.

 

Interesting. I'd take a longer cut.

[Davros sock drawer]

Also if they could put all the Baron's dialogue back plz.

 

[monkeydog]

3 minutes ago, Davros sock drawer said:

Also if they could put all the Baron's dialogue back plz.

 

 

It's one those where I'd love to hear it from Skarsgård but don't think the film needs it. 

 

The mini series made me more relaxed about losing dialogue and scenes.  It's a more literal adaptation but it was so tepid, in a way the book and this film aren't for me.  

 

It's such a balancing act I can see why people miss stuff.  I really wanted a bit more of the mentors mentoring.

[Davros sock drawer]

6 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

 

It's one those where I'd love to hear it from Skarsgård but don't think the film needs it. 

 

The mini series made me more relaxed about losing dialogue and scenes.  It's a more literal adaptation but it was so tepid, in a way the book and this film aren't for me.  

 

It's such a balancing act I can see why people miss stuff.  I really wanted a bit more of the mentors mentoring.

I’m absolutely fine with losing dialogue but in the case of the Baron making him taciturn ruins the character IMO. The whole character of the guy in the book, his fatal flaw even, is that he can’t resist bragging. He’s constantly mouthing off. 
 

How anyone could read the book and think he should become a man of few words is beyond me.

[monkeydog]

24 minutes ago, Davros sock drawer said:

I’m absolutely fine with losing dialogue but in the case of the Baron making him taciturn ruins the character IMO. The whole character of the guy in the book, his fatal flaw even, is that he can’t resist bragging. He’s constantly mouthing off. 
 

How anyone could read the book and think he should become a man of few words is beyond me.

 

Villeneuve talked about him being the ultimate schemer and wanting to portray that.  The prior two iterations have ended up very pantomime. He does boast to Rabban, but obviously lacks the risk of doing that with Fenring.  Thought that line about the Emperor spoke volumes about both characters, without being verbose.