The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Nespresso]

To do this, Hyrule must become more indifferent to the player. It must aspire to ignore Link. Zelda has so far resisted the urge to lavish choice on the player and respond to his every whim, but it follows a similar spirit of indulgence in its loving details, its carefully crafted adventure that reeks of quality and just-for-you-ness. But a world is not for you. A world needs a substance, an independence, a sense that it doesn’t just disappear when you turn around (even if it kinda does). It needs architecture, not level design with themed wallpaper, and environments with their own ecosystems (which were doing just fine before you showed up). Every location can’t be plagued with false crises only you can solve, grist for the storymill.

Like this in the next 2 minutes and you will be kissed on the cheek at midnight.

[Keyboard Koala]

Someone made a cake especially for Napoleon:

Impressive, Starfox.

[Jbone]

the words of Tevis Thompson

Thanks for this, I really enjoyed reading that. I mostly agree with him too. I've always felt like a bit of a pariah for disagreeing with the unconditional praise heaped on the 3D Zeldas. Having said that, I like the look of SS and have just bought it second hand, so I hope it's not "the worst Zelda" like he says...

[scottcr]

it's not... no where near

see also, people who want Zelda to be Skyrim

[SMD]

That essay is a big bag of shite. You can sum up his argument with one line. "Why isn't this the Zelda I want?"

I'm going to make it clear that while I've enjoyed the main Zelda games, I don't think they're particularly difficult. I mostly tripped up on the controls on Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess was easy even by 3D Zelda standards. I don't mind so much because I know that for the average person (note: not gamer), a Zelda game can be quite a daunting experience. I bet the number of people who played the latest Zelda and have also played every single other iteration when they came out is a tiny proportion.

He talks about the game being a world to explore rather than a story. Then decries the increase in story telling over the years. The disconnect in logic is astounding. Zelda isn't an open world game series. Maybe you could argue the original title was by 8-bit standards but it hasn't been the case for 20 years. He says he likes Dark Souls. No shit, that's exactly the sort of game he describes - and the sort of game that Zelda isn't.

Who knows, maybe Nintendo meant what they said and are going to revamp the series. But this whole measuring a game by your expectations rather than the reality of the situation is just daft. The number of people who enjoy rock hard games are dwarfed by the number who prefer a well told story they can go along with. By all means criticise the controls or the illusion of a populated world(s). If Nintendo put something in the game for a purpose, go right ahead and point out how it fails to meet its purpose. Don't complain that Nintendo didn't make it an open world and put in characters to fulfil sidequests. If you're complaining about the existence of the entire game then you should just hold your hands up and admit that it's not the game for you.

Fucking hell, gaming as a whole has moved on since then. Arguably games that buck the trend are easier to name (Super Meat Boy, Dark Souls, etc).

I don't understand how you can deny that Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask were utterly brilliant.

[SMD]

Ganondorf would be under Link's bed.

[Guest]

it's not... no where near

see also, people who want Zelda to be Skyrim

Nowhere near? Which iterations do you think are worse then? And don't give me any of that Philips CDi crap, I'm talking about since its shift to 3D.

Personally I think it's by far the worst of the 3D ones. Too linear. Too much hand-holding. Too fragmented. Too much unnecessary padding. Too many antiquated design decisions. And absolutely shite controls to top it all off.

[Nespresso]

That essay is a big bag of shite. You can sum up his argument with one line. "Why isn't this the Zelda I want?"

Yeah SS wasn't by the numbers at all!

[SMD]

Yeah SS wasn't by the numbers at all!

Eh? It could've been on par with Ocarina of Time, it still wouldn't have satisfied his demands.

I get that other games do things better but I'll never understand the mentality of people who keep playing these games and keep complaining about them.

[Jbone]

I get that other games do things better but I'll never understand the mentality of people who keep playing these games and keep complaining about them.

Really? I think it's pretty easy to understand. Every time a Zelda game is released, everyone in the videogames media spunk themselves silly. The amount of hyperbole thrown around is ridiculous. I'm sure that every Zelda game released since Ocarina has been described by someone, somewhere, as "the best game ever". If you're vaguely interested in games it's pretty difficult to ignore that much hype.

For that guy in particular, it's a series that he engages with. He played the early games and loved them. He knows that maybe the recent ones haven't been his thing, but the series changes stylistically for every game. Who's to say there won't be a shift in the gameplay focus as well? After all, he's already seen the games shift a couple of times with the move from 8-bit to 16-bit and then to the modern games. It's difficult to just say "I don't like that type of game" because he's not really sure what type of game it's going to be. As you said, he's secretly hoping that this time it's going to be the game he wants.

Anyway I've enjoyed all the Zeldas, but I think he's right when he says that the modern entries are missing some of the magic of discovery that they were all about in the early days. So there.

[scottcr]

Imagine if Skyward Sword was your very first ever Zelda game...

Nobody makes Zelda games... Okami isn't one... Darksiders came close. We get about one of these things every 5 years.

[SMD]

Really? I think it's pretty easy to understand. Every time a Zelda game is released, everyone in the videogames media spunk themselves silly. The amount of hyperbole thrown around is ridiculous. I'm sure that every Zelda game released since Ocarina has been described by someone, somewhere, as "the best game ever". If you're vaguely interested in games it's pretty difficult to ignore that much hype.

For that guy in particular, it's a series that he engages with. He played the early games and loved them. He knows that maybe the recent ones haven't been his thing, but the series changes stylistically for every game. Who's to say there won't be a shift in the gameplay focus as well? After all, he's already seen the games shift a couple of times with the move from 8-bit to 16-bit and then to the modern games. It's difficult to just say "I don't like that type of game" because he's not really sure what type of game it's going to be. As you said, he's secretly hoping that this time it's going to be the game he wants.

Anyway I've enjoyed all the Zeldas, but I think he's right when he says that the modern entries are missing some of the magic of discovery that they were all about in the early days. So there.

I don't think I've seen negativity about a Zelda game as much as Skyward Sword. Even Spirit Tracks just got disappointment whereas SS seemed to attract a lot of criticism that seemed disproportionate. I don't pay attention to reviews so I just went on Metacritic and looked for the first review by a site I recognise - Eurogamer.

It got 10/10 and the same reviewer gave Ninokuni a 9, Okami HD 9, Nintendo Land 8, NSMB2 8... a quick look over his reviews and he seems to like classic games re-imagined. So I can see why SS would be right up his street.

IGN also gave it 10: the man who reviewed it is their Nintendo editor and says he likes the controls and style. I can't easily find any of his reviews but the jist seems to be, people who reviewed and hyped the game are the kind of people who'd like it.

Okay, let's have a look at Giant Bomb, they're pretty well known to be Nintendo critics: 4/5. They also commend the controls and style.

See, even if you want to argue it's overhyped, I just picked out three reviews from three well known sites that pretty much say the same thing - if you're the sort of person who doesn't like the Wiimote at all and didn't think it looked good, surely that would've been a warning sign? It doesn't mention anything about the stuff that fella complained about. It talks about controls, dungeons and an overworld that isn't densely populated.

The controls are a matter of opinion. I wasn't a fan but it didn't put me off the game. I appreciated what Nintendo tried to do and I think it's safe to say they won't be mandatory in the next Zelda game. I disagree by the way with your assertion that every generation Zelda changes. Not really. Ocarina of Time was pretty much a progression from A Link to the Past. Instead of the Light/Dark Worlds you had Young and Adult Link. It fit the gameplay mechanics just as switching from Light to Dark and back again did. I haven't played it in a long time but ALttP had a massive overworld and many dungeons that you could do in batches but ultimately pushed you forward in the way the game wants you to. Majora's Mask had the time mechanic as well as the increased sidequests. Wind Waker was pretty linear IIRC, but did a lot of what OoT did.

There's nothing to suggest they're defined by generation. Every Zelda game tries something new, be it a gameplay mechanic or a graphical style or both. The fact that Nintendo said in that last big Direct that they're planning on taking their time with the next Zelda and it will borrow from games like Dark Souls is more an indicator than anything else Nintendo have done in the last 20 years that maybe the series might have a significant development.

tl;dr you're a daft bugger if you're not expecting a Zelda game since the first one to be a Zelda by numbers, no matter how polished or groundbreaking with respect to other games.

[NEG]

We waited 5 years for Skyward Sword. Think about that and weep for a while.

As for wanting Zelda to be open-ended, no, that isn't exactly the case. But what OOT, MM and even Wind Waker did was set up a plot, give you a general jist of where to go, but afterwards it didn't force you to do anything. You could explore at your own pace, which is helped by the fact of having interesting town folk, villages, and a fairly large (finding random goodies-wise) Overworld to go see. It's the illusion of vastness that's been missing in Twilight Princess and of course, to a much larger extent, Skyward Sword. And a lot of fans want that back.

Hyrule Field in OOT may no longer be as magical the tenth time through, and may even feel smaller then it felt all those years ago, but damn, it still felt like more of a world then Skyloft could 15 FREAKING YEARS LATER

[SMD]

We waited 5 years for Skyward Sword. Think about that and weep for a while.

Nothing will beat waiting 6 years for Super Mario Sunshine.

As for wanting Zelda to be open-ended, no, that isn't exactly the case. But what OOT, MM and even Wind Waker did was set up a plot, give you a general jist of where to go, but afterwards it didn't force you to do anything. You could explore at your own pace, which is helped by the fact of having interesting town folk, villages, and a fairly large (finding random goodies-wise) Overworld to go see. It's the illusion of vastness that's been missing in Twilight Princess and of course, to a much larger extent, Skyward Sword. And a lot of fans want that back.

Hyrule Field in OOT may no longer be as magical the tenth time through, and may even feel smaller then it felt all those years ago, but damn, it still felt like more of a world then Skyloft could 15 FREAKING YEARS LATER

See, that makes sense and is valid. Twilight Princess was criminal in this because Castle Town was filled with people that you couldn't interact with in any way at all. Ocarina of Time had loads of incidental people, not necessarily quest givers but just people to add a bit of colour and life. That almost 10 years on Nintendo managed to make a more populated area feel emptier is insane. Windfall Island was great but it was pretty much the only place aside from Outset Island that was worth spending time in.

Skyward Sword felt like Nintendo were creaking a bit and the fact they dragged on Anouma to state that they acknowledged the issues and felt they needed to change Zelda suggests that maybe they've cottoned on.

[NEG]

Nothing will beat waiting 6 years for Super Mario Sunshine.

You win!

[SMD]

You win!

I don't think anyone can say they're a winner. If it wasn't a Mario game I don't think anyone would've complained. At least Super Mario Galaxy more than made up for it.

[Calashnikov]

I only recently played SS and had avoided all discussion of it in reviews and on forums for over a year before starting the game (I'm weird like that when it comes to Zelda. I don't want anyone else's opinion tainting my own experience). I'd heard that it got an Edge 10, but I had no idea it was being slated in the forums until pretty much I'd finished the game. I had no idea why folk were so hard on it. I thought all of the Timeshift Stone stuff was ingenious and could easily understand how it would take 5 years to design some of those areas to their undoubted puzzley perfection.

They distilled that whole parallel world / time travelling Zelda thing into little lumps of portable rock and it was SO GOOD. It really isn't as bad as some folk seem to have made out. I can see why people might dislike the side-story fetch quests, but I see those little NPC interactions as Nintendo's nod to Clock Town in Majora's Mask. We'll never get another game like Majora, so I think it was nice that they attempted to recreate the interactive town vibe, but on a side-quest level. If you don't like that part of the game you don't have to do it. For the true Zelda heads, though, you'll be sitting there dowsed naked in banana milk with a stiffy like I was the whole time. Controls were on/off good as well, once I finally figured the fuck out how Motion+ worked versus traditional Wii pointer controls.

[linkster]

I only recently played SS and had avoided all discussion of it in reviews and on forums for over a year before starting the game (I'm weird like that when it comes to Zelda. I don't want anyone else's opinion tainting my own experience). I'd heard that it got an Edge 10, but I had no idea it was being slated in the forums until pretty much I'd finished the game. I had no idea why folk were so hard on it. I thought all of the Timeshift Stone stuff was ingenious and could easily understand how it would take 5 years to design some of those areas to their undoubted puzzley perfection.

They distilled that whole parallel world / time travelling Zelda thing into little lumps of portable rock and it was SO GOOD. It really isn't as bad as some folk seem to have made out. I can see why people might dislike the side-story fetch quests, but I see those little NPC interactions as Nintendo's nod to Clock Town in Majora's Mask. We'll never get another game like Majora, so I think it was nice that they attempted to recreate the interactive town vibe, but on a side-quest level. If you don't like that part of the game you don't have to do it. For the true Zelda heads, though, you'll be sitting there dowsed naked in banana milk with a stiffy like I was the whole time. Controls were on/off good as well, once I finally figured the fuck out how Motion+ worked versus traditional Wii pointer controls.

All I can say is my time with SS came and went when I was avoiding forums altogether so I had no idea what people were saying but I couldn't help but be thrilled by the Edge and Eurogamer scores. I still think the dungeon design and combat is up there with the best and... Weirdly. Just had a thought, I can honesty say while playing it I really enjoyed the main mission stuff buti know I resent it because the flying and lack of engaging narrative meant I gave up so never finished it, for once.

[MattyP]

Gone back to try and finish this off tonight!

Last saved file was February 2012!!!! LOL.

So once I'd figured out where I'd got too in the story and re-acquired myself with the controls suddenly realised why I'd stopped playing... that damn flying boss LMAO.

Flying wasn't bad in this but attacking a flying boss and trying to accurately hit targets with IMHO a not accurate enough control mechanism is a PITA.

Thing is I want to finish this damn game... noted that I'd logged 60+ hours on this.... can't be far from the end....

Also the hour or so I spent on this tonight reminded me of why I love playing Nintendo games even if the controls in this one let it down on occasion its still a wonderful game.

[Keyboard Koala]

[Clyde]

I started playing Skyward Sword again earlier this week. I got the game 2 years ago for Christmas but I only got passed the tutorial section (I think I found all the Kikwi creatures and spoke to the elder) then I stopped. With the announcement of a new Zelda and the hype kicking in now makes me want to finish this game.

I'm now heading for the third temple but the controls in this game are starting to piss me off. It's annoying having to re-adjust the cursor to the centre every 5 minutes or so. Trying to roll a bomb on the ground is infuriating, Link keeps staying in the normal throw stance then the slightest movement of my left hand brings out the shield to use block, only to drop the bomb in the process and blow myself up. I've pretty much played through the second Temple without a shield because Link keeps fucking readying it every 2 minutes.

I'm determined to see this game through to the end but I'm concerned that when this game gets tougher and these controls continue to fuck me over.

Controls aside, I am enjoying this game and it's getting me hyped up for Zelda Wii U next year.

[Mr Cochese]

Never recalibrate. It recentres when you press the trigger to activate the item.

[MattyP]

I'm determined to see this game through to the end but I'm concerned that when this game gets tougher and these controls continue to fuck me over.

Controls aside, I am enjoying this game and it's getting me hyped up for Zelda Wii U next year.

Its definitely worth persevering with as on par I've enjoyed it more than not. Accurately trying to fly and hit targets is the only thing that mostly pisses me off but thankfully these bits seem to be fairly infrequent.

Will finish this before the new year for sure its going to be by Xmas game to focus on this year. Never know why but Zeldas seem to feel like Xmas games...

[MechE]

Never recalibrate. It recentres when you press the trigger to activate the item.

I think this is a big reason why there's such a clear cut between people who do and don't have difficulty with the controls.

[Garwoofoo]

The MotionPlus in Skyward Sword is ridiculously setup-dependent though. When I played it recently I found it simply didn't work properly during daylight hours - the light from the windows in my lounge kept on subtly throwing off the centring, probably because it was trying to recenter itself at the wrong time or based on the wrong thing. In the evening, with the lights dimmed, it all worked flawlessly. I can easily see people trying it and assuming it just doesn't work properly, and the obvious solution is to try and recalibrate it yourself every time it goes awry.

[Mr Cochese]

The MotionPlus in Skyward Sword is ridiculously setup-dependent though. When I played it recently I found it simply didn't work properly during daylight hours - the light from the windows in my lounge kept on subtly throwing off the centring, probably because it was trying to recenter itself at the wrong time or based on the wrong thing. In the evening, with the lights dimmed, it all worked flawlessly. I can easily see people trying it and assuming it just doesn't work properly, and the obvious solution is to try and recalibrate it yourself every time it goes awry.

Skyward Sword doesn't use the sensor bar. It's all gyroscopes.

[Garwoofoo]

Skyward Sword doesn't use the sensor bar. It's all gyroscopes.

That's not true, it uses the sensor bar to recalibrate and recenter itself. Hence it's thrown off by light.

[Stanley]

I'm fairly certain Cochese is right. You don't need to recalibrate, it's done manually. In other words unless you choose to, it doesn't require the sensor bar.

[Mr Cochese]

Damn straight I am.

[NecroMorrius]

The pointer in Skyward Sword goes fucking mental if the sensor bar is even a tiny bit off. I'm playing it at the moment, I fired it up last night with my sensor bar at a funny angle and the pointer was jumping all over the place until I straightened it up.

It doesn't use it for any of the gyro stuff though.

I've realised that play is improved by making slower movements. Slashing it around like you would a real sword results in a lot of weirdness, wafting it about yields a much better result. I like all of the ideas mechanically, I just don't like the input method very much.