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Microsoft Kinect


Asura
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I don't know why people are so certain about the mythical slimline X360 anytime soon, the Microsoft roadmap for their chipsets was leaked a long time ago, and they still haven't reached Valhalla yet, and I don't know whether that would safely allow a more substantially cooling restrictive case design to be implemented, as Microsoft kind of skimped on that particular part of the engineering when they were designing the box in the first place.

OK, I'll stand corrected, I wasn't aware about their chipset roadmap, it just seems like an inevitable thing to do. Especially as it is the same 'box' as 4 years ago. There's a lot of room in there still too but as you say, the cooling isn't exactly a forte.

I'd be surprised if they aren't trying to make it smaller, just for a Natal remodel jobby at least.

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Either way I think we'll definitely get a 'slim' 360 for Natal, if only for the fact that it will have taken them these 4 years (or whatever it's been) to work out the over heating issues and shrink all the chips down to squeeze it into a smaller box.

There isn't going to be a slimmer 360. Most of their hardware faults are down to inadequate cooling, and they couldn't release a smaller console without making this problem worse. Even MS aren't stupid enough to release an even more failure prone 360.

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To perhaps sell it the product to the rllmuk forum. To sell it to the Wii market share, they need to demo the thing to people in the format similar to that of the Wii marketing campaign (with Ant and Dec). Get that right and people will 'go spastic'.

This thing is supposed to achieve full skeletal tracking, which is a tad more impressive than an eyetoy.

that market have already bought a Wii - quite recently. They're not interested in buying another box for under the telly - regardless of who makes it.

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that market have already bought a Wii - quite recently. They're not interested in buying another box for under the telly - regardless of who makes it.

Will they ever?

The masses moved from their PS2s to the Wiis, because they were better.

To move from their Wiis to their NextBoxes, it'd have to be better still.

It can happen.

It won't, though. :)

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Did they?

I don't think they did (imho)- the PS2 market seemed to fragment between the PS3 and the 360 (add those two console numbers together and you get someway towards the PS2 installed base). Some will have moved to the Wii, but most of those will probably have more than 1 console.

Nintendo set out the Wii to be an additional console to the 360/PS3 (how else can you play those Nintendo franchises) or as a console for people who would never own one. If MS release a console aiming for that market- what is it going for? A third console in addition to the 360/PS3+Wii or a second box to sit next to the Wii in all those non gaming households?

Both seem pretty stupid, but I'm sure that won't stop MS....

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OK, I'll stand corrected, I wasn't aware about their chipset roadmap, it just seems like an inevitable thing to do. Especially as it is the same 'box' as 4 years ago. There's a lot of room in there still too but as you say, the cooling isn't exactly a forte.

I'd be surprised if they aren't trying to make it smaller, just for a Natal remodel jobby at least.

That would be the logical assumption to make based on Sony and Nintendo remodels, as Valhalla is meant to do to the core X360 chipset what the combined EE/GS did for the PS2, which co-incidentally arrived around the same time as the PS2 redesign, except for the small fact that the PS2 didn't have a well publicised inherent cooling problem and had plenty of empty space they could easily junk (the laser diodes in them were just shit instead :)) so I would just caution people against thinking it's a done deal.

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Did they?

Yeah. Didn't they?

I mean, the PS2 catered to pretty much everybody. It had the 'serious' and the 'casual' under one roof. Now it seems to me that the 'casual' moved to the Wii and the 'serious' split across the two others. By and large.

Yeah, there are still PS2 games being made and still people who haven't jumped ship, but I think the general observation is correct: the kind of family-friendly casual audience that the PS2 won over are now playing games on the Wii.

EDIT: spelling fail.

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except for the small fact that the PS2 didn't have a well publicised inherent cooling problem and had plenty of empty space they could easily junk

They had that massive hole in them with fuck all in it which was meant to hold a 3.5” HDD too, which would have been the easiest thing in the world to remove and slim the thing a bit. I’m guessing they were already slimming the internals before that as well, because the Japanese PS2 had an external HDD and no big internal space.

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Yeah, there are still PS2 games being made and still people who haven't jumped ship, but I think the general observation is correct: the kind of family-friendly casual audience that the PS2 won over are now playing games on the Wii.

Or the Wii really did expand the market and draw in both people who had given up gaming and people who feared the joypad, because it didn't do those sorts of numbers just off the back of a segment of the PS2 market. Anecdotally, nearly all the people I know who have bought Wiis were not PS2 owners previously.

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This thing is supposed to achieve full skeletal tracking, which is a tad more impressive than an eyetoy.

This is one thing I don't get. This technology is supposed to be clever but I cannot at the moment what makes it better than the current vision camera. E3 is going to be interesting.

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This is one thing I don't get. This technology is supposed to be clever but I cannot at the moment what makes it better than the current vision camera. E3 is going to be interesting.

It has an infra-red camera that's able to work out how far you are from the camera - so it can work out, supposedly, your skeleton - or was it just two normal cameras that do this? I can't quite remember. Standard webcam games only look for motion; they're essentially 2D.

It's fine in theory, whether or not it works for games is the hot topic.

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At the risk of repeating myself

Describing the Wii as a "fad" is foolish in the extreme.. there is a market for this sort of "family" gaming or whatever you want to call it and there has been ever since the industry matured beyond "kids n teen gaming" around the PS1. Part of the reason is that gamers from the start of gaming have grown up and maybe require more from games and gaming, part of the reason is technology led and part is expanding market with more user friendly technology so people who doent understand tech can join in (grandparents/parents on Wii for example).

A proportion bought into eyetoy/buzz/singstar etc in the PS2 generation, now they all have switched to wii for obvious reasons... thats why the PS3 is a bit fucked compared to PS2 as it used cover both the "hardcore" and "family" and now wakes up to find out that Wii has stolen "family" market and 360 is stealing part of the "hardcore" market.

The only people who think the wii did not steal the casual PS2 market are those that thing the PS2 owners are out there just waiting to buy a PS3... and eventually PS3 will sell as many as PS2

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The only people who think the wii did not steal the casual PS2 market are those that thing the PS2 owners are out there just waiting to buy a PS3... and eventually PS3 will sell as many as PS2

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. This is a market which Nintendo has been cultivating for the last ten years or more. They've captured the attention of lapsed gamers who used to play Mario & Zelda or whatever, they've got audience they gathered during the rise and rise of the DS and underpinning it all is a very simple design philosophy, similar to Apple. Nice small devices with controllers that don't look out of place in the living room - and easy to use interfaces. Then there's the whole lifestyle angle due to Wii Fit or educational games. The PS2 was still considered a 'videogames console', the thing that played GTA and other nerdy things. The Wii sends out a much more family orientated, adult message. The same with the DS. These devices are no longer the preserve of the cliched gamer, they're for everyone.

Sure they've no doubt got some of the PS2 crowd but there's a few of them split between the 360 and PS3 too.

I'd imagine the Wii will do far bigger numbers than PS2.

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So many people don't realise that a huge factor in the PS2 sales was the release of the PSTwo... although no one will believe me, I'm the only person from my circle of friends who didn't replace their PS2 with a PStwo...

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I don't think it's quite as simple as that.

SNIP

No it isnt thats why I wrote all the other stuff in my post about each generation bringing different technologies and expanding markets etc etc

In fact pretty much what you say after the snip is what I said...

In simple terms

last gen

Gamecube had the hardcore Ninty fans

Xbox got a portion of the hardcore fans and some PC people who wnted to dabble in consoles

PS2 kept the Playstation generation and added more casuals

This gen

Wii Brings forward the ninty faithful from Gamecube, adds on a fair chunk of the casuals from the last gen that chose PS2 and expands the market massively to add parents and grandparents etc

360 keeps its hardcore market and steals some of the old PS2 hardcore market

PS3 Keeps a portion of its casual market (the singstar faithful mainly) but loses the rest to Wii... Keep sa fair chunk of its hardcore market but loses part of it to 360

Natal won't make a jot of difference to that breakdown... neither will the Wand I dont think... We are years into this gen, the only change I see possible is PS3 overtaking 360 eventually but they will both finish in the same ballpark in terms of number of consoles.

Actually, longshot is that there are TONS of PS2 owners still waiting to jump ship and when wand appears with re-packaged PS3 it steals them away and gets closer to the Wii.. but as I say longshot

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So many people don't realise that a huge factor in the PS2 sales was the release of the PSTwo... although no one will believe me, I'm the only person from my circle of friends who didn't replace their PS2 with a PStwo...

The PS2 was already doing well at the time the PStwo came out though. So no doubt it was a factor, along with price drops, but I don't think that will be enough for Sony to win this generation. PS3 sales have picked up since the slim but next to Wii they're nothing.

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The PS2 was already doing well at the time the PStwo came out though. So no doubt it was a factor, along with price drops, but I don't think that will be enough for Sony to win this generation. PS3 sales have picked up since the slim but next to Wii they're nothing.

this was really in response to how PS2 and Wii sales compare.

PS2 had a lot of repeat sales with the PSTwo... unless the Wii adds 5.1 out and some form of HD output, I can't see the same happening for the Wii.

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PS2 had a lot of repeat sales with the PSTwo

Says who? I don't know anyone who owns a PStwo, and never have done. Sounds like you're clutching at straws again to try and belittle Sony's success with the PS2. What about all those Wii owners who get bored of the frequent lack of must-haves, sell the thing, then buy another one when the next Mario game is released? How much does that inflate the Wii figures I wonder?

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Says who? I don't know anyone who owns a PStwo, and never have done. Sounds like you're clutching at straws again to try and belittle Sony's success with the PS2. What about all those Wii owners who get bored of the frequent lack of must-haves, sell the thing, then buy another one when the next Mario game is released? How much does that inflate the Wii figures I wonder?

oh for goodness sake

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I don't know about 'repeat sales' I think it's more down to pricing, both the PS1 and PS2 sold the most after they hit the £100 mark. Nintendo have a completely different pricing structure - one which begins cheaper than rival machines but keeps that value throughout the life of the product. Seems to work for them.

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This is an interesting comparison... it's that new Racquet Sports game by Ubisoft (for the Wii). It also supports the Ubisoft camera.... sounds like you're better off with the controller. But it doesn't have the new-fangled detection of the Natal, but it might be an indication of using Natal. Or not using it.

http://kotaku.com/5423301/we-played-a-wii-...-wii-controller

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Getting back into the Natal discussion, I honestly can't see it having much interest. Many gamers complain that they don't like Wii because of having to 'waggle' the remote and such like. Well this is going to be even worse. Regardless of how much more accurate and advanced it is over Eyetoy the fact remains it works by tracking body movement. So whilst it will be fun for Eyetoy type games beyond that it'll have a very limited appeal. If people feel uncomfortable playing Zelda or Metroid with a Remote & Nunchuk, how are they going to feel playing Perfect Dark using their hands as guns etc?

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So many people don't realise that a huge factor in the PS2 sales was the release of the PSTwo... although no one will believe me, I'm the only person from my circle of friends who didn't replace their PS2 with a PStwo...

I think this is a good point. Will be interesting to see what MS do to court the casual market in terms of console redesign...

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