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Microsoft Kinect


Asura
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I'm not saying it's a great idea but it's the only way to make it work as far as I can see. It would have to be bundled with the game that needs it though, and that game would need to be up there with Wii Sports.

Look at Wii Sports, for example, you couldn't do any of that with just Natal.

EDIT: Tennis and boxing, actually.

You couldn't do tennis as well as there's no racket to hold and no feedback when you hit the ball.

Boxing it could probably do. But although it wasn't great boxing with the Wii was one of those WOW moments, when you bobbed and weaved and your Mii did it. So even if Nata; could do it it wouldn't be a WOWer.

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Just like with the Wii, things will have to be done differently with Natal. It's going to be better in some ways, and worse in others. A fitness game doesn't need a way to weigh yourself. It didn't stop those celebrity DVDs selling, and it's not going to hurt a Natal fitness game either.

You think fitness games will sell well on Xbox 360 using Natal? Seriously?

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Just like with the Wii, things will have to be done differently with Natal. It's going to be better in some ways, and worse in others. A fitness game doesn't need a way to weigh yourself. It didn't stop those celebrity DVDs selling, and it's not going to hurt a Natal fitness game either.

A balance board doesn't just weigh you. But I think the weighing bit is a major part of its appeal.

You think fitness games will sell well on Xbox 360 using Natal? Seriously?

Well It can't do anything else.

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And scott touched on it.

according to MS's recent financials 763 women own Xbox 360s.

So for a fitness game to sell more than this amount it will mean more women buying 360s and it's going to have to be a fucking awesome fitness games to get a fat bird to part with £200 when they all have Wiis already and natal can't even weigh you.

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360 just doesn't have the market for fitness games though. Surely no male 18-30 wants fitness from their 360. And if they did I'm sure they (or their Mum!) would have one on Wii already.

360 just doesn't have the right image to appeal to the broader audience they'd need. They might try to when it comes out but can't see them making much of an impact.

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You think fitness games will sell well on Xbox 360 using Natal? Seriously?

Whether they would sell well or not is a different question. That's down to how the games and Natal itself are marketed.

That said, I think you could make a pretty good fitness game for Natal that wouldn't need an extra peripheral. There was an EyeToy fitness game.

A balance board doesn't just weigh you. But I think the weighing bit is a major part of its appeal.

I know, I've used Wii Fit. That just seemed to be the main point everyone was bringing up.

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If anything, the Natal should in theory be a better way of tracking posture and composure than a balance board given its body shape'n'posture tracking abilities. It's made specifically for tracking the human body, its movements, where your arms and legs are, how you're standing etc.

When are they going to change the name of the thing to something not awful?

When they announce it 'for real' at E3 I guess.

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I'm pretty sure that not every Xbox owner is a geeky loser with no girlfriend. So let's not pretend that they wouldn't have access to a 360 already and wouldn't be able to persuade their boyfriends/husbands to let them play their new fitness game on it. And let's also not pretend that Microsot aren't going to use Natal as a way to exapnd their market. This isn't a new game, it's their attempt to ram-raid as many parts of casual/lifestyle entertainment and social networking as they can.

Also, it apparently can 'see' your fingers. 'Feature extraction of 48 skeletal points on a human body' is what is cited.

I see where everyone's arguements are coming from but Natal probably isn't for us. Microsoft have a ready-installed userbase to work from and will go to town on marketing this to women & families. If we think Natal is shit for 'gaming' and too mainstream, will they care? Will they fuck, they'll just release a new Halo :o

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anyway - regardless - it's a question of markets. The Wii has this market sewn up... however, this is all about the 'next generation' where there's a fair chance that MS could steal the market away from Nintendo.

And there is the small problem of finding talented people to actually come up with and well implement new ideas, something which after ~40 months, everyone but Nintendo have pretty much failed to do on the Wii. Who cares how great/rubbish your technology actually is, it's how well it's utilised that matters, as we're all acutely aware by now.

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how it can essentially track your composure.

Except it doesn't. You just think it does - it's just measuring your centre of balance, and the software makes assumptions about how your centre of balance will move as you do certain activities. If you squat, you'll have a more stable centre of balance for certain tasks - but you won't be playing the "game" right.

Natal provides another means to provide Smoke and Mirrors that makes us think that magic is going on when it isn't. The whole of videogames is about the appropriate use of Smoke and Mirrors, and more options could mean (but won't necessarily cf. Waggle!) some more interesting interactions.

(Nb. The word "interaction" there is where I'm coming from - I'm not particularly interested in the first generation of any of these games: but in the possibilities that might arise once everyone's thought further about them.)

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That's what I mean though, it measures your centre of balance (which is essentially composure in this regard) which is something Natal can't even come close to doing.

I'm still getting a 360 again purely for Natal when it comes out though. So it must be doing something right. New tech is always exciting for geeks I suppose.

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I'm pretty sure that not every Xbox owner is a geeky loser with no girlfriend. So let's not pretend that they wouldn't have access to a 360 already and wouldn't be able to persuade their boyfriends/husbands to let them play their new fitness game on it. And let's also not pretend that Microsot aren't going to use Natal as a way to exapnd their market. This isn't a new game, it's their attempt to ram-raid as many parts of casual/lifestyle entertainment and social networking as they can.

Also, it apparently can 'see' your fingers. 'Feature extraction of 48 skeletal points on a human body' is what is cited.

I see where everyone's arguements are coming from but Natal probably isn't for us. Microsoft have a ready-installed userbase to work from and will go to town on marketing this to women & families. If we think Natal is shit for 'gaming' and too mainstream, will they care? Will they fuck, they'll just release a new Halo :o

of course it can't track your fingers, from that video it has trouble tracking Jonathon Ross, a great lump of a man.

Listen, don't be fooled into thinking this thing can do great things they just haven't demoed yet. At the moment it can just about track 4 limbs a torso and a head, albeit with major lag. It probably uses 48 points for that. I guess it would take a load of points just to track one hand.

And every xbox user IS a geeky loser with no girlfriend.

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That's what I mean though, it measures your centre of balance (which is essentially composure in this regard) which is something Natal can't even come close to doing.

It's a bizarre argument you're making here.

It's like saying that the balance board is rubbish because it can't detect whether I have my hands up in the air or down by my sides.

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Well that kinda was my original point to start with. Ideally you'd have both, a balance board with a Wii remote or wo and it could. Natal with peripherals is what's needed. Not saying a balance board, but definitely something to hold that would give you more options/accuracy/feedback.

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I'm not really seeing Natal as a peripheral like the balance board, I think it's going to be standard in the future versions of the 360 and it's also going to be a general interface - with the voice interaction for stuff like 'play a movie' and the hand waving for navigating through the menus in last.fm.

The wall-breaking leap around like a spaz thing is going to come with it bundled as a little demo (and huuuugely sub-par wii sports type thingy) and it will just be there as part of your setup. So in future games you can throw your arm to lob a grenade (as some Dev already said but can't remember who) or talk at your games properly or stuff like that.

I'm probably wishful thinking but I think it will be a lot more optional than we're currently expecting it to be.

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You know how we've had tellies for 200 years and nobody's felt the need to do away with remotes and go all voice activated and hand waving? There's a reason.

First there's no need for it and second it's not very good.

You guys are always asking "Why waggle my Wii when pressing a button will do?"

Well, it's because for some, pretending to swing a sword is fun.

Pretending to navigate a menu is never gonna be fun.

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I'm totally with ramone on this.

Complete piece of hyped up bullshit.

I would LOVE to be proved wrong, but I think he's right, it's shit, it's going to stay shit and instead of accidentally pressing down rather than left on the d pad, you'll be flidding your hands about in the air and stretching its voice recognition with 3 words, "Fuck, shit and bollocks." as it flids you about some more.

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I mean it's going to be rebranded as whatever natal'll be called.

It's going all natal. All wave your arms in the air like you just don't care. There's not going to be anymore 360. It's going to be a compromise. It's a fuck up, but what can MS do? Sales of the 360 have stalled even though it's the cheapest and has good games. They gotta try something. They're not interested in making some money from it, they wanna be in 100million living rooms and they've no chance with their nerdbox, and they've no chance with their spastic box. They should try and come up with something new.

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I'm not suggesting for a minute a grenade throw arm gesture would in any way be a good thing but I think it is likely to be in there just cos you can. I'd anticipate a lot more group chat wii-speaker type stuff to come about "live hurling abuse at your tv with mates watching teh football instead of having to wear a headset!!11!" stuff like that.

More photo-as-you-get-taken-down in Burnout type things with the in built camera. An option to steer Burnout without a controller, a super special count to potato version of Fable 3 where you say 'finish game' and just watch what happens for people that really don't understand dual thumb camera / avatar control (which some people still really can't do)...

I agree that it won't be very good but it isn't aimed at us and I think it could be a novel extra, rather than "ZOMG we iz nevah gonna get a n00 CoD game anymoar" which seems to be what is expected.

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I'm not suggesting for a minute a grenade throw arm gesture would in any way be a good thing but I think it is likely to be in there just cos you can. I'd anticipate a lot more group chat wii-speaker type stuff to come about "live hurling abuse at your tv with mates watching teh football instead of having to wear a headset!!11!" stuff like that.

More photo-as-you-get-taken-down in Burnout type things with the in built camera. An option to steer Burnout without a controller, a super special count to potato version of Fable 3 where you say 'finish game' and just watch what happens for people that really don't understand dual thumb camera / avatar control (which some people still really can't do)...

I agree that it won't be very good but it isn't aimed at us and I think it could be a novel extra, rather than "ZOMG we iz nevah gonna get a n00 CoD game anymoar" which seems to be what is expected.

Do you think ms think of it as a novel extra? Come on. Who the fuck is going to buy a 360 to play burnout without a controller?

The people stupid enough to buy it for that don't have an income.

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