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Pressing the win button


Couch Corpse
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To make sure I talk about CoD4 in absolutely every topic in the forum, I'll mention it here.

The quickest way to earn points in it is - without a doubt - the Headquarters mode. Cue thousands of people who play that and nothing else. It's not bad by any means, but playing nothing else would drive me mental.

I also regulalrly come across people who've played the game for days and days, and still haven't even tried half of the gametypes. Not even once. What?

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To make sure I talk about CoD4 in absolutely every topic in the forum, I'll mention it here.

The quickest way to earn points in it is - without a doubt - the Headquarters mode. Cue thousands of people who play that and nothing else. It's not bad by any means, but playing nothing else would drive me mental.

I also regulalrly come across people who've played the game for days and days, and still haven't even tried half of the gametypes. Not even once. What?

I don't (or didn't) mind that loads of people only played that mode (and Sabotage I think?) but the worst part was that they'd have a massive mardy at you if you actualy tried to go for the objective instead of getting loads of kills/points.

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Partridge.

Aha. Thought it sounded familiar....

Then again, back on topic, unfortunately in life a lot of people are incredibly sore winnders and losers. I'd much rather have a good fun game and lose than spam something just so that I can win, especially in MP anyway.

For instance, if I play Worms with friends, I generally don't use the ninja rope much as it makes it a bit unfair for everyone else as I've practiced using the ninja rope more than the other people. Then again, my mates always team up against me cos I have played it more so then I have to resort to everything just because I'll otherwise be taken out very quickly...

As mentioned before, if I know how people are playing then I'll know whether I'd want to play against them, I still find it amazing that people that go and hide in an FPS don't see that if everyone did that, everyne would just be hiding in a corner and it would be incredibly dull and get no kills...

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I stopped playing Counter-Strike because every death was preceded by a flashbang whiteout. If I had it my way they wouldn't be in the game. However, this is more to do with me being shit than any particular game imbalance.

No, the game imbalance comes from the AWP. :)

Allegedly. I've not used it myself. :lol:

AWPs are not that bad, the problem comes from people thinking they can run at an awper and win. Besides the M4 or AK can do just as much damage if your willing to aim a bit.

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How so? Just good manners really and I know if I win that race I'll just be thinking it was because I took that guy out and would seem a bit of a hollow victory.

It just seems that way to me, I'm not criticising you, you know more about the game than me. I don't play the game so from my point of view that is just amazing.

I would never concede a game because I made a mistake in execution that led to victory.

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It just seems that way to me, I'm not criticising you, you know more about the game than me. I don't play the game so from my point of view that is just amazing.

I would never concede a game because I made a mistake in execution that led to victory.

Well to be honest it's not really conceding a game more so admitting a mistake, generally you will catch up and it'll still be a close race.

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How so? Just good manners really and I know if I win that race I'll just be thinking it was because I took that guy out and would seem a bit of a hollow victory.

I've encountered this in PGR4 against some randoms, filled me with pride it did.

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Just played Fifa online fully manual vs fully manual for the 1st time in an age. Never has a 1-0 defeat felt so good.

9 shots in the entire game and a game of football that felt like a game of football. A ball that acted like a ball and did ball like things.

Shame hosting games with those settings means i'll get a game once in a blue moon. :lol:

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I think it's a really interesting topic.

I don't like it when people dive in football nor do I think all competitve football should be reduced to a jolly kick about in the park. The difference is in games it's impossible to dive or break the rules because they are hard coded into the world.

My only problem with the people who 'just want to have fun' is when they tell new players that it is the correct way to play. In these cases they are doing actual real damage to the community.

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If you play a game of laser tag against good players, they are almost impossible to hit, as they do this weird slow, turning "dance", keeping the sensors moving and at oblique angles. They are ace at the game, and not cheating, but for me it ruins the game, because to stand a chance against them I'd have to do the same, and then I wouldn't feel like I was having a sci-fi style shootout (and I also don't when I see them owning everyone by doing this). It may be within the rules, and pretty clever, but it's surely against the spirit of the game (did the designers really envisage this behaviour when they came up with the idea?). I don't blame players for doing it, but it does put me off playing.

Likewise, bunny hopping in online FPSes. It may be an effective way to make oneself a hard target, but it looks stupid, and it's tedious to do. Again, for me, it ruins the game, but it's a legitimate tactic, and I don't blame people for doing it.

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Likewise, bunny hopping in online FPSes. It may be an effective way to make oneself a hard target, but it looks stupid, and it's tedious to do. Again, for me, it ruins the game, but it's a legitimate tactic, and I don't blame people for doing it.

People don't do it to make themselves a hard target. The idea is that you move quicker zig-zagging with the strafe keys than you do running in a straight line. It's actually a fairly tricky technique to pull off, especially to get it right. Took years of playing Quakeworld before I could finally nail it. Once you've got it down it gives you the ability to do stuff like trick-jumps, gives you much greater control over movement in mid air and can drastically increase your speed.

Here is a really quick video showing how it can benefit you on the classic quake map DM3.

http://defaced.co.uk/files/aircontrol_dm3.avi

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People don't do it to make themselves a hard target. The idea is that you move quicker zig-zagging with the strafe keys than you do running in a straight line.

Ah, OK.

I don't deny the skill of the better players, but the game doesn't feel like a "real" shootout, which is what I want to play. They're not cheating, and good luck to people who enjoy it, but for me, this behaviour doesn't make the game fun to play.

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The thing we have to recognise here is that people play online games for different reasons.

Some want to have fun - mostly playing with friends as a social thing - they tend to "clique up" and stay in that wherever possible.

Some want a challenge and are happy to take on randoms to get it - they don't mind losing but they don't want to be cheated/exploited/quit-on etc etc.

Some just want to win at any cost - it becomes an obsession I think - to NEVER lose no matter what (quit, cheat, exploit just don't lose)

Some just want to fuck around and, if possible, annoy people into the bargain.

All these people are connected to the same game...

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This reminds me of my days playing Street Fighter II at the local bowling alley. The original SFII, before even Championship Edition where balance was pretty off, and both players couldn't even choose the same character.

One of my friends would always play Zangief, and just spam the Super Piledriver move -- the incredibly overpowered one you could pull off even with the opponent seemingly out of reach, by just rotating the joystick in a circle like a robot chef mixing batter, and mashing a high attack button. He pretty much dominated with this strategy, but I never understood what he really got out of it.

To me, the fun of playing SFII definitely included victories, but it was much more about utilizing various strategies, pulling off cool-looking moves, executing difficult to master and extremely satisfying control motions (Super Uppercut was hard to pull off back then!, but oh so sweet when mastered), and chaining together moves. This guy's playstyle didn't include any of this. But he usually won.

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Hiding beneath textures? Never seen that before. Haven't played in a while though.

Yeah, I think they've fixed it since but people used to jump-glitch over the wall in one map (Ambush I think) and they'd be able to crawl under the map and lie prone halfway in and halfway out and you couldn't do a damn thing about it. I think some WaW maps had the same thing.

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One of my friends would always play Zangief, and just spam the Super Piledriver move -- the incredibly overpowered one you could pull off even with the opponent seemingly out of reach, by just rotating the joystick in a circle like a robot chef mixing batter, and mashing a high attack button. He pretty much dominated with this strategy, but I never understood what he really got out of it.

To me, the fun of playing SFII definitely included victories, but it was much more about utilizing various strategies, pulling off cool-looking moves, executing difficult to master and extremely satisfying control motions (Super Uppercut was hard to pull off back then!, but oh so sweet when mastered), and chaining together moves. This guy's playstyle didn't include any of this. But he usually won.

Well crafted piece of trolling sir

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You can't talk about the "win button" without mentioning Halo 2 and the standby fiasco.

Physically pressing a button on your modem/router which made everyone else unable to move so you could run around and kill them is perhaps the most literal interpretation of a win button.

Or, your screen would go black and when you reappeared the enemy had stolen your flag. Twice. You lose. Haha!

People actually went out and spent money on new equipment just to gain access to this game-breaking cheat.

Eurgh, I can't understand the mentality of these idiots.

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FIFA is bad for people just playing to win, most people I play just pick Man U/Barca and hold down the sprint button, cant even string 2 passes together, not even proper football, just about speed and assisted through balls, completely bypass midfield

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Weirdly enough, this topic immediately makes me think of certain items you're 'rewarded' with in RPGs. Lost Odyssey is probably the most recent game I've noticed it in (though I hear that Fallout 3 also has elements you can acquire which pretty much make you a walking heel-less Achilles).

It raises the curious predicament of when these 'win-buttons' are very much entirely intentional - is this good (your choice) or bad (you're human.. like you have a choice). I remember specifically a conversation on the britxbox forums from the Assassin's Creed thread in which several people were citing a certain skill you learn which entirely breaks the combat gameplay and others arguing that this isn't actually a fault of the game 'because you don't need to use it'.

Alarum bells, alarum bells.

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I'm a challenge masochist. I love hard games and making the game as difficult for myself as possible. No cheap tricks for easy wins for me.

Hardcore on CoD4.

Not meaning to turn this thread into yet another CoD 4 discussion, but Hardcore on CoD 4 is far easier (and far less tactically diverse) than normal, as has been stated over and over in the actual CoD thread. The removal of health and radar actually makes the game much simpler, and makes it far easier for a poorer player to do well.

I think some players play games for different reasons, and within the grand scheme of things some gamers view multiplayer games as a large, complex puzzle, that needs to be cracked in order to win. Some games actually are like this, and there's always an element of this in every multiplayer game, where players have to learn the nuiances of the controls, or the layout of the maps.

If you want to play without all of this, then play unranked games, and leave all the serious "I need to win" gamers in the ranked lobbies.

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I don't want a games to be a total walkover, but at the same time I don't want the challenge to outstrip the fun of playing. Take Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry 4 for example, i'm not good enough at the games to have fun with them but love all the cool moves you can do, so when something like God of War come along with its stripped-down combat but awesome combo's & finishers I love it.

I'm not saying anything against NG or DMC4 mind you, I know some people swear by them & how satisfying they are once you "master" them but i've never been able to get into that zone despite multiple attempts at playing them & usually just end up fustrated that i'm just not getting it.

Something I really would like to see is a video of a really, really good player of either game working their way through it so I can perhaps see where i'm going wrong.

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I'm just gonna copy my rant from the FNR4 thread.

Convention states you write the full title of something then, and only then, revert to acronyms, for the benefit of people who would like to participate in the discussion but perhaps don't know all the specifics.

Great topic subject, honestly, but come on... WTF is FNR4? :(

EDIT:

Ahh, Fight Night Round 4? I had to trawl the front page for that bit of info, since it's not a game I have any interest it, despite this topic's subject being a universal one.

For the record, I have the same "win button" problem with 3rd person actioners like the new Wolverine game.

It plays exactly like a dozen other such titles (Afro Samurai, Heavenly Sword, etc).

Mindless crap, all of them.

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