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eBay says: if you sell a videogame you must post it for FREE


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So basically this is because people aren't buying stuff on eBay, so they're forcing the sellers, the guys who make eBay their money, to (theoretically) shoulder the cost of P&P so people will buy more, and eBay will get more money due to more sales....but pissing off the people who make them their money.

I's because eBay don't charge final value fees on postage, so people get around the final value fees by inflating postage costs. You see a lot of people selling games for £15 + £15 P&P.

So as usual, a select few wankers ruin it for the rest of us. Of course, eBay could just start charging final value fees on P&P, but that mould mean you'd have to pay more in fees if you sell abroad. So the final value fee would then have to be chargable only on the UK P&P amount.

This way, they've effectively done this anyway, without having to change their overall charging structure.

I can't say I'm in favour of it, but it doesn't really bother me all that much as I've gone through it already with DVDs and it didn't hurt me.

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There's a tidal wave of sellers sick of eBay DYING to return to a auction (not BiN) focussed specialist/collectable format with a community/fair feedback system - anyone who can't marshall forces behind that deserves to fail.

You need to re-invigorate the auction too - eBay (and others) have completely failed to capture the spirit of an auction online.

Done properly an auction offers the most money for the seller - eBay's retarded system just offers teh least for sellers and the most for the sneakiest buyer...

Whatever youdo, you'd need a stack of cash to promote it - but with ebay's fee structure it wouldn't be hard to make the money back and still be cheaper - focussing on the sellers means you'll get the goods - get the goods and you'll get the buyers...

Just because other's have tried and failed does NOT make this a bad idea - plenty of much-lauded authors were turned down by dozens of publishers - people shunned The Beatles (not enough of them IMO) etc. etc.

Oh yeah, totally agree with you. Never said it was a bad idea just that there have been sites that have failed as they are too specialised. Video game auctions, or whatever is was called (off the top of my head) even dropped the fees at one point. I used to use it, it is a shame it didn't take off. It is going to be really, really hard to pull of something big with a limited selection of buyers especially when the large majority of buyers are, well, you know :)

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So let's say a game normally goes for about £10. In the old days you'd set a start of £2 and get £10. +P&P

Now you set a start price of £4 and guess what? You'll probably still only get £10. If you're lucky the bidders will be prepared to go a bit higher knowing P&P is free, let's say they go to £11. So you're now £1 worse off, plus you're paying ebay fees on £11 instead of £10.

The majority of people aren't stupid. They factor the postage costs into how much they will be willing to pay.

I know this because I buy a stupid amount of games myself.

When I set group of snipes for a particular game with many listings, I will set a higher snipe bid for the auctions with the lower P&P.

Don't forget that bidding is also a competition. You are competing to be the one who will spend the most within the amount you have available to spend. If you don't factor P&P costs into it, you lose. Plain and simple.

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Am I the only one that gets a kick out of not paying eBay fee's?

I got a debt letter once from them a few years back, was pretty funny. I took it seriously, honest.

Well, I'd prefer to still be able to sell stuff in future using the same login name. If I had leynos1997 or some shit like that instead of just leynos, I might be tempted to let their listing fees go to hell if I was particularly hard up that month.

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I remember when eBay didn't play the Sony game of shooting themselves in the face with idiot decisions.

It was some time in the mid nineties as I recall. Ah, such wondrous days, when the Sega still made hardware, Nintendo still made games and 56k dialup was considered fast.

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I remember when eBay didn't play the Sony game of shooting themselves in the face with idiot decisions.

Are you calling the completely random purchase of Skype and StumbleUpon for silly money an "idiot decision"?

Because, if so, I agree.

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Factoring in the postage price isn't so perfect either. In my opinion buyers don't add the cost of the postage into the purchase. They think they brought the item for say 10 pound, plus 1.50 postage. Not I paid 11.50. I used to run a few free postage auctions I didn't get noticable higher returns.

Also buyer will not get a postage discount for multiple items, something that I activley promoted and did get multiple purchases from buyers.

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Just out of curiosity why do you think it hasn't happened before?

Several reasons really...

Early competition was "me too" competition (Yahoo etc.) - they just copied each other and in a very new market, the business concentrated in the most popular place - in this case, that was eBay.

Since then I think people view eBay as the 600 pound Gorilla in the corner of the room - no-one wants to try to compete with them - no-one will fund anyone to compete with them - and that's probably still the case today because they're still raking in the moneys DESPITE some dumb decisions and some business practices which I think border on 'anti competitive' (all the PayPal gubbins)...

To compete with eBay head-to-head you'd need a LOT of money - eBay are a byword of online auctions (even tho they fail at those for the most part) - it would be like opening a small car company and aiming at GM or Ford instead of something like Morgan or TVR (I know they combusted but you get the idea).

eBay started flogging Pez dispensers (that's actually a myth eBay made up - they started with venture capital like every other .com startup but we'll run with it) so - err - why can't someone else start with that and move up?

There are some specialist markets which used to be srong on eBay but their mistreatment of smaller sellers etc. has driven a lot of business back to forums etc. - just pick a couple of those markets and start something and see where it goes - would be my idea.

Get the online auction working - make it exciting - get it into Facebook and Twitter and all that jazz - get the community and the excitement going again - and watch eBay calcify into a hawkers bazaar for wholesale tat...

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In fact Ebay themselves could set up a competitive alternative. Like Ebay Classic the way it used to be but with all the extra security and protection for buyers and sellers. Ebay want to become "Ebay Shops" and really have no intrest in 2nd hand tat. However they won't let it go and give someone else the oppertunity to get a foothold on their patch.

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Ebay want to become "Ebay Shops" and really have no intrest in 2nd hand tat. However they won't let it go and give someone else the oppertunity to get a foothold on their patch.

Concisely said. The number of BiN auctions, from even regular people, is staggering. I refuse to use that though and have to wrestle with the search engine to only display auctions.

eBay used to be my favourite site around the late 1990s. Lots of bargains for stuff that was extremely difficult to get hold of normally. Like Saturn imports. Oh god, do you guys remember Saturn imports, with their little jewel cases? ;) Not imports from Japanese sellers, but collectors who were selling their imports domestically. I sold a few, bought a few, and so on. I actually joined eBay because I desperately needed a Sega CD memory cartridge to play Shining Force, and suddenly BOOM. There it was, someone selling it for like a fiver. I'd send cheques and they'd send me the items. You paid the fees and didn't mind.

I was happy paying the fees when selling before because the service was worth it. Now I feel violated every time I partake in an eBay transaction. And I fucking hate PayPal.

Also, what is with them banning people for no reason? One guy I was buying DVDs off said they banned him because someone else accused him of shill-bidding. Having followed his auctions I never saw evidence of this, it was just grumbled user he didn't end an auction early for. Anyway, I think he said they investigated it and allowed him to put his stuff back up eventually, but the knee-jerk reaction to close all his auctions.

And then there's that poor Korean guy selling PS3 imports. Mine arrived quickly as described, and for reasons I've never discovered eBay banned him as well.

And yet there's an army of shop-running cocks who don't ban because they bring in lots of money.

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And yet there's an army of shop-running cocks who don't ban because they bring in lots of money.

Yup, Gameboy Advance pirate games and PDF files of "Get quick rich schemes". It's too much effort for them to manually police certain auctions. They could have someone going through the auctions and pulling ones that overcharged for postage quite easily, the message would get through.

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But their policing is so inconsistent. Targeting small people that do no/little harm, while ignoring the really annoying people (I want to buy a PS3, some guy is selling not the system but a list of places where I can buy the system - WTF?! Stopping clogging up the results page).

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Google are probably the only ones capable of pulling it off. There definitely seems like a gap for something new. Ebay is a very unattractive prospect (for buying and selling) these days. Final Fees + Paypal Fees are horrendous.

Or Yahoo Auctions? AFAIK eBay doesn't operate in Japan because of Yahoo's service being so popular. But then I haven't looked at that for 2 years.

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I don't think you need to be the proverbial rocket scientist to work out that you should just charge an extra £5.

It's an auction. You don't set the final price. How can you charge an extra £5?

eBay started flogging Pez dispensers (that's actually a myth eBay made up - they started with venture capital like every other .com startup but we'll run with it)

Where do you get such rubbish from? I'd suggest you read The Perfect Store to understand exactly how eBay was started and why it was originally thought of.

Concisely said. The number of BiN auctions, from even regular people, is staggering. I refuse to use that though and have to wrestle with the search engine to only display auctions.

It's really difficult to click once on the "auctions only" tab?

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Where do you get such rubbish from? I'd suggest you read The Perfect Store to understand exactly how eBay was started and why it was originally thought of.

For a long time there was a story on one of the eBay community pages saying that eBay started-out as something someone created to help a friend of theirs buy and sell Pez Dispensers with other collectors.

It was debunked in a rather good online article at Wired which I cannot find any link to now - that article was the basis of a million other articles (just Google eBay pez) - the bottom line was that the Pez Dispenser story was a total fiction told to make them sound more interesting - and it disappeared from the eBay site around the same time the debunking story appear (related to the book you mention I assume?)...

The idea that something like eBay started on 1 PC somewhere is nonsense anyway - ALL websites start on 1 PC somewhere, but that doesn't have much to do with where they end-up :rolleyes:

eBay was actually quite slow in converting from a 'startup' to a 'corporate monster' - compared to some of it's contemporaries - but convert it did and I think the only think which keeps it moving is the impetus it was given from it's early days as the place you could get things you couldn't get ANYWHERE else...

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What happens if you want to be able to use, say, 1st class recorded delivery? Do you have to fork out for that as a seller now, or can you offer uninsured 2nd class postage as your standard "free" shipping option, but request a surcharge for faster, more secure shipping?

I suspect not, but it's foolish for eBay to force this upon people because most small sellers are hardly likely to fork out for more expensive, expedited and insured postage if they have to offer it at no cost, especially for low value items, which will result in longer delivery times and a higher chance of both buyers and sellers losing out if items are lost in the post.

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Seems odd that they're worried about buyers paying 50p too much for postage but not worried about the thousands of buyers unknowingly buying shoddy knock-offs of DVDs and games.

I'm just glad that I decided to sell off the remainder of my collection last Christmas before this nonsense came in. It just makes things more confusing for the seller and will, I expect, just add to the numbers of sellers that seem to make little or nothing selling on eBay, often without realising just how much they're paying in fees!

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For a long time there was a story on one of the eBay community pages saying that eBay started-out as something someone created to help a friend of theirs buy and sell Pez Dispensers with other collectors.

eBay was originally conceived by Pierre Omidyar due to his wife mentioning about how the Internet could be a good place to sell and buy stuff; she collected Pez dispensers. He put together AuctionWeb and sold a broken laser pointer, among a few other things.

eBay did indeed lose its history pages in recent years, but that was due to legal and corporate considerations rather than anything else. They never stated that they were founded to sell Pez dispensers. The only time that was mentioned was when a PR person got the wrong end of the stick, and it was indeed shown to be false in the book.

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What about ebid :wub:

I dunno why ebay couldn't just have a set limit for videogame titles depending on format; factoring extra packaging of course and postage method used. But have dispensation for SE titles such as Steel Battalion.

The thing is people started using 99pence starting fees to reduce listing costs, increased starting price means more money to ebay.... :lol:

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What about ebid :wub:

I dunno why ebay couldn't just have a set limit for videogame titles depending on format; factoring extra packaging of course and postage method used. But have dispensation for SE titles such as Steel Battalion.

The thing is people started using 99pence starting fees to reduce listing costs, increased starting price means more money to ebay.... :lol:

I think that they need to re-think their decision (or create sub-categories for the collectable portion of videogames). while I've seen a few sellers taking advantage of the p&p costs, most sellers don't (I personally refund any shipping cost over payment that exceeds $1 over my actual cost of shipping, but I know that not everyone does this).

the sad part is that I don't think that they are factoring in the costs associated with properly packaging what I would classify as collectables vs. popping a loose cart or common game in a jiffy and to expecting the seller to [eat] the cost of the box, bubble wrap and packaging peanuts in addition to the insurance cost (especially where the ending value of an item or items exceeds $100).

I think that the only reason that many sellers have stuck with them and ignored (but still bitched about) the past god awful changes (sellers not able to leave negative feedback, no sense of order in the way that feedback left [seller first, buyer after they receive the product], and the surcharge to strike negative feedback left by an idiot buyer which is subsequently banned from ebay) is the sheer number of people that frequent ebay.com (with no other site coming even close to 1/10th that kind of daily traffic).

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Am I the only one that gets a kick out of not paying eBay fee's?

I got a debt letter once from them a few years back, was pretty funny. I took it seriously, honest.

I've been tempted. I had a massive clear out a year or so ago. Got about £2,000, and ebay fees came to about £350, nevermind the 10% paypal take off everything.

What is even worse is that since I had, rather stupidly, put a bid on an item of my brother's (I wasn't bidding anyone up - no one else had bidded on it, he simply listed it at the wrong price and wanted it to end at the same time as his other items rather than relisting it) they cancelled all my listings, which I then had to redo, and still charged me the fees for all of them. Absolute cunts.

I've never used the site since then.

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Haha, this is amazing, can you not see the irony? See what you're going through? That's what companies go through, except you never see it. When you're bitching and moaning about company X putting their price up or charging for Y, you all moan. Now here you are, trying to work out how to incorporate the cost of the P&P into your sales, acting the victims. Why has eBay done this? Because many of the sellers were cheating them by having items for £3 and postage for £40.What do you think happened over at eBay HQ? Well, the same shit that is going on here. They talked about how "it's not fair", "those greedy bastards are just doing it to pay less fees", "great so now we have to come up with a way to stop them abusing the system", "we may as well just run things for free if nobody wants to pay fees" etc.

It never ceases to amaze me how people delude themselves into being the victims when things aren't going their way. Guys, you're trying to sell items for profit. eBay is trying to run a business for profit. You're not forced to use them, use your initiaive and change the way you sell things if it's not going in your favour. What's all this about the music business having to adapt or die? Well, adapt or die people.

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Another major gripe is this:

It's standard because they're massive corporations. PLAY.com must sell millions of music CDs, films and games a month. Presumably it has some kind of postal discount, or it's large enough to cover the costs. eBay started as a place for the average man to sell a few things he had knocking around, but this is no longer the case.

We need a new online auction site.

Who knows, maybe eBay continues to screw everyone over and then Google starts up an auction site. Or something. One can but hope.

RllMarket!

Make it so, let's make our fortunes. Ca-ching.

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It never ceases to amaze me how people delude themselves into being the victims when things aren't going their way. Guys, you're trying to sell items for profit. eBay is trying to run a business for profit. You're not forced to use them, use your initiaive and change the way you sell things if it's not going in your favour. What's all this about the music business having to adapt or die? Well, adapt or die people.

What sellers are fed-up with is being treat as 'the bad guys' - when they're actually the people paying to keep eBay rich and powerful.

Several things have happened over the last 1-2 years which undermine the position of the seller (and make little sense in many cases). It's becoming much easier for buyers to rip-of sellers and any sense of community on eBay is draining away as I type...

Put simply - eBay seem to believe that buyers do not EVER cheat and that there is no need to worry about thieves and liars in that population.

Remember that sellers are the people who actually provide eBay's income - and yet eBay repeatedly target them as 'the problem' when they are clearly 'part of the solution' - this is just, plain bonkers IMO.

It's clear that eBay view the buyer as their most important customer - they then court 'large' sellers with anyone else sadly not fitting into their business model atm

This topic is typical of 100s like it in forums all over the web (they'd be in eBay's own forums if such discussion didn't result in swift moderation/removal/warnings and bans) - people are "mad as hell and they're not going to take it anymore" :)

In your rather poorly thought-out music industry analogy, sellers aren't the industry - they're the artists. eBay are the industry and they've decided to reduce royalties, increase studio costs and charge artists for every album pirated - so the artists are putting down their instruments and getting 'real' jobs - unsurprisingly...

p.s. You make every eBay seller sound like a businessman purely out for max profit - but it's not always been like that. I've sold stuff on eBay because people will pay money for things I no longer want - and that makes sense to me. That's the market eBay was born-of - but they're shunning it and THAT is the market I think is ripe for plunder from them - if you have a few 10s of millions of cash. Everyone else with piles of car-boot-fair boxes and cases of imported crap - they can stick with eBay for all I care :)

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I don't think eBay thinks sellers are the bad guys, to be honest I don't think that they particularly care about that sort of stuff*, they're just interested in running the organisation in the most profitable and sustainable way. They seemed to have identified the seller as the best point to introduce change. It's not a personal thing, as I said, I really don't think they care at all.

I understand what you're saying about the community etc, and I guess it is a shame for those who see eBay as that, but the people in charge have chosen to grow the company in a different direction. You can still sell stuff though right? the terms have changed a bit but you'll either make a little less profit or you'll need to adapt your strategy a little. The same applies to eBay though. They've had to adapt, and this is the way they've chosen to go about it. Some of you are talking about adding the P&P to the product cost (Which is fine), others in the past "adapted" to fees by charging insane amounts for postage etc.

I'm not really having a go at people, although I see how it can come across as a snide dig. I'm just saying it's a condition of the market, we you guys have to adapt to. eBay's decisions are the same. As I said, you don't have to use them.

*When operating at a higher level I mean. I'm sure there are loads of people working for eBay who do care about the community etc.

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