Modern Warfare 2

[Soi]

M4: 30-20

Scar-H: 40-30

FAMAS: 40-30

M16: 40-30

ACR: 30-20

TAR-21 : 40-30

FN FAL: 55-35

F2000: 30-20

Ak-47: 40-30

For some reason I can't find the ROF anywhere. Still, you're absolutely right about personal preference, I see Kerraig lay waste with the ACR but I find it doesn't pack enough of a punch for my liking.

Full info for all guns, including RoF, can be found here:

http://phatwater.com/MW2/

[EDIT: This link has now changed, and doesn't include RoF. From memory, a Scar is 530rpm, a Tar 730rpm, a UMP is 600rpm and a P90 is 900rpm]

For those who don't know, a damage of "40-30" means 30 damage at "far" distance and 40 damage at "close" distance (with a number between in the middle). The range thresholds at which the number goes from e.g. 40 to 39 is the same for all Assault Rifles. Likewise, while the threshold ranges are shorter for SMGs, all the SMGs decay at the same ranges. Snipers and LMG don't have range decay.

You have 100 health. So a "40-30" gun is 3 bullets to kill until the distance where the damage is 33, where it becomes 4 bullets to kill.

[EDIT2: This link illustrates range decay nicely http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5950/snakex.png]

Stopping power increases damage by x1.4. So a "40-30" gun becomes a "56- 42" gun. So a Scar is 2 shots to kill, becoming 3 shots to kill at long range.

A silencer halves the threshold ranges for ARs and SMGs. So an Assault Rifle that is 40-30 (eg Scar) will do 39 rather than 40 at half the distance with a silencer than without. A silencer reduces the damage for the Snipers and LMGs.

Those geeky stats don't take recoil into account, so on there own they don't say what gun is best. Some useful things to note:

1) The Tar is just like the Scar with a higher RoF. The Tar also has a bigger clip size. On the downside, the Tar has more recoil. Therefore, the choice between a Tar or a Scar comes down to whether you can control the recoil of the Tar at the distances you typically fight. If you are an "up close" type of player, the Tar's bigger clip and higher rate of fire makes it better. A "shoot from windows" type of player might prefer the lower recoil of the Scar

2) The UMP with a silencer is a beast. Without SP it is 3 shots to kill at all ranges. Therefore, using a silencer has no downside on a UMP without SP. With SP, the UMP is 2 shots to kill up close, 3 at distance, which is pretty evil. Combined with the faster aim down sight time than an Assault Rifle and large clip, the UMP makes for a great "rushing" gun.

3) The FAMAS and M16 are to all intents and purposes the same gun. Being very picky, the 3-shot burst of the FAMAS is marginally tighter than the M16, but the time between bursts is marginally longer. The FAMAS is probably "better", because a tighter burst means that at distance it is more likely that all three bullets will kill.

IMO, SP isn't that useful on the FAMAS/M16 as without it they still kill in one burst until "far range". With SP it is a one burst kill at all ranges. But at "far ranges", the bullet spread of the 3 shot bursts means that getting all to hit a moving target may be hard. So I tend to find that at "far distances" I often need two burst with SP.

IMO, a silencer on a LMG is pointless. The damage reduction (typically from 3 shots to kill to 4 shots to kill) means that a silenced LMG is just a poor Assualt Rifle

[Pob]

Full info for all guns, including RoF, can be found here:

http://phatwater.com/MW2/

[EDIT: This link has now changed, and doesn't include RoF. From memory, a Scar is 530rpm, a Tar 730rpm, a UMP is 600rpm and a P90 is 900rpm]

For those who don't know, a damage of "40-30" means 30 damage at "far" distance and 40 damage at "close" distance (with a number between in the middle). The range thresholds at which the number goes from e.g. 40 to 39 is the same for all Assault Rifles. Likewise, while the threshold ranges are shorter for SMGs, all the SMGs decay at the same ranges. Snipers and LMG don't have range decay.

You have 100 health. So a "40-30" gun is 3 bullets to kill until the distance where the damage is 33, where it becomes 4 bullets to kill.

Stopping power increases damage by x1.4. So a "40-30" gun becomes a "56- 42" gun. So a Scar is 2 shots to kill, becoming 3 shots to kill at long range.

A silencer halves the threshold ranges for ARs and SMGs. So an Assault Rifle that is 40-30 (eg Scar) will do 39 rather than 40 at half the distance with a silencer than without. A silencer reduces the damage for the Snipers and LMGs.

Those geeky stats don't take recoil into account, so on there own they don't say what gun is best. Some useful things to note:

1) The Tar is just like the Scar with a higher RoF. The Tar also has a bigger clip size. On the downside, the Tar has more recoil. Therefore, the choice between a Tar or a Scar comes down to whether you can control the recoil of the Tar at the distances you typically fight. If you are an "up close" type of player, the Tar's bigger clip and higher rate of fire makes it better. A "shoot from windows" type of player might prefer the lower recoil of the Scar

2) The UMP with a silencer is a beast. Without SP it is 3 shots to kill at all ranges. Therefore, using a silencer has no downside on a UMP without SP. With SP, the UMP is 2 shots to kill up close, 3 at distance, which is pretty evil. Combined with the faster aim down sight time than an Assault Rifle and large clip, the UMP makes for a great "rushing" gun.

3) The FAMAS and M16 are to all intents and purposes the same gun. Being very picky, the 3-shot burst of the FAMAS is marginally tighter than the M16, but the time between bursts is marginally longer. The FAMAS is probably "better", because a tighter burst means that at distance it is more likely that all three bullets will kill.

IMO, SP isn't that useful on the FAMAS/M16 as without it they still kill in one burst until "far range". With SP it is a one burst kill at all ranges. But at "far ranges", the bullet spread of the 3 shot bursts means that getting all to hit a moving target may be hard. So I tend to find that at "far distances" I often need two burst with SP.

IMO, a silencer on a LMG is pointless. The damage reduction (typically from 3 shots to kill to 4 shots to kill) means that a silenced LMG is just a poor Assualt Rifle

That's brilliant. Got any more tips?

I'm definitely swapping out the P90 for the UMP for my speedy/flanking class then. I never get near an empty clip on the P90, so I should be able to cope with the UMP, especially as the silencer has no detrimental effects. The only downside is I might run out of ammo quicker.

So what does the 'range' stat mean in the game itself then? Do rounds just 'disappear' at different distances on different guns?

[goofy pls]

I'm pretty sure the decrease is in multiples of ten for all weapons except the Vector and FAL.

In addition, Stopping Power is a 1.4x multiplier and headshots are 1.4x.

e: Sorry, my mistake, 1.4x for headshots, only snipers get 1.5x.

Rounds only 'disappear' on shotguns, the range stat in the game, like all of the in-game bars, is purely visual to fuck with you, all of the snipers do 70 damage yet all have completely different damage bars.

The UMP is a beast and it has a more than acceptable clip, due to the extra damage/accuracy and the slower ROF you'll probably not notice much difference in your time to empty compared to the P90.

[Pob]

I'm pretty sure the decrease is in multiples of ten for all weapons except the Vector and FAL.

In addition, Stopping Power is a 1.4x multiplier and headshots are 1.5x.

By that rationale, is Stopping Power almost pointless on the FAL? It'll take two rounds to kill up close whether you have SP on or off (50 damage per round without SP, 70 damage per round with), and three at range (35 damage per round without SP, 49 damage per round with).

I guess the only advantage SP gives in that situation is more range on the 'two shot kill'. At what range does the damage drop from 50 down to 49?

[Soi]

That's brilliant. Got any more tips?

I'm definitely swapping out the P90 for the UMP for my speedy/flanking class then. I never get near an empty clip on the P90, so I should be able to cope with the UMP, especially as the silencer has no detrimental effects. The only downside is I might run out of ammo quicker.

So what does the 'range' stat mean in the game itself then? Do rounds just 'disappear' at different distances on different guns?

As Neom says, all the in game stats are meaningless.

Other tips:

- A silencer is a terrible attachment on a shotgun, as the bullets disappear much sooner (shotguns being the only guns where the bullets themselves do not travel for ever).

- An ACOG scope increases recoil. A red dot sight is therefore more accurate, though you lose the slight zoom factor of ACOG. ACOG therefore works best for the burst fire FAMAS/M16 as hopefully you'll be killing in one burst so increased recoil isn't an issue.

- I've not used it, but in contrast to all the other ARs, the AK47 apparently has "idle sway" (sights moving around when aiming) if any attachments apart from ACOG are added. So, with an AK, use the ACOG or no attachments. If you want to use a silencer, use a Tar instead.

[goofy pls]

By that rationale, is Stopping Power almost pointless on the FAL? It'll take two rounds to kill up close whether you have SP on or off (50 damage per round without SP, 70 damage per round with), and three at range (35 damage per round without SP, 49 damage per round with).

I guess the only advantage SP gives in that situation is more range on the 'two shot kill'. At what range does the damage drop from 50 down to 49?

Exactly. SP doesn't take it's low damage above the magic 50, the only benefit of SP is that a short range headshot will drop in 1. Since I stopped playing hardcore I haven't touched the FAL.

I've got to be honest, I didn't notice the idle sway on the AK until someone pointed it out, I suppose being so used to CoD4 means it doesn't phase me in the slightest, I absolutely adore the AK, I'll always pick one up when I find it, statistically it's nothing special but in practice it's a beauty. Only real bad point is it doesn't function well on an explosive class because it takes too long to reload grenades.

USP/M9 bottom damage is 25 also, I thought it was 20. Not bad.

[Soi]

By that rationale, is Stopping Power almost pointless on the FAL? It'll take two rounds to kill up close whether you have SP on or off (50 damage per round without SP, 70 damage per round with), and three at range (35 damage per round without SP, 49 damage per round with).

I guess the only advantage SP gives in that situation is more range on the 'two shot kill'. At what range does the damage drop from 50 down to 49?

Ranges are best illustrated with this graph:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5950/snakex.png

For the ARs, the range starts to drop off at about the length of the body of the airplane on terminal. So ARs keep full damage for quite a way. SMGs start ot drop off at half the distance (with silencers halving all distances).

[goofy pls]

Should mention that the sniper rifle mutipliers on that table are wrong for W2000/M21. All I remember off the top of my head is that the M21 has no body mutiplier.

[WahderBawdle]

They've nerfed the Deagle so much for no reason

On that table its the only handgun with a steep short-mid range drop.

I havent had one kill with it yet. Not even on a glitched rust match.

[Isaac]

1) The Tar is just like the Scar with a higher RoF. The Tar also has a bigger clip size. On the downside, the Tar has more recoil. Therefore, the choice between a Tar or a Scar comes down to whether you can control the recoil of the Tar at the distances you typically fight. If you are an "up close" type of player, the Tar's bigger clip and higher rate of fire makes it better. A "shoot from windows" type of player might prefer the lower recoil of the Scar

This is why the Tar is currently my favourite gun. It's just like a faster scar, and you can still tap-fire to shoot more slowly if you wish. The recoil on it is nothing compared to the recoil on an AK in Counter Strike too, if you're used to the recoil of other games then it's piss easy to use.

Tar for best assault rifle in MW2, in my opinion.

[Timmo]

This is why the Tar is currently my favourite gun. It's just like a faster scar, and you can still tap-fire to shoot more slowly if you wish. The recoil on it is nothing compared to the recoil on an AK in Counter Strike too, if you're used to the recoil of other games then it's piss easy to use.

Tar for best assault rifle in MW2, in my opinion.

The iron sights on the SCAR are way way better for me. Some don't like them, but I'm probably better with them than a red-dot. I'm not very good with the TAR ones. The TAR fires a little faster but the bullet power is identical.

The TAR is my weapon of choice in my Danger Close class, though.

[Uzi]

I'd still say ACR is best overall rifle since it's strengths are so easily useable by pretty much anyone

[SnoopZakaDaVe]

i for some reason prefer the M4A1, my best games have still been with that gun

[Uzi]

i for some reason prefer the M4A1, my best games have still been with that gun

The M4 is pretty much a less awesome ACR- if you're high level enough, you really should switch

[SnoopZakaDaVe]

i've been using the ACR but sometimes it just feels a bit heavy, somehow. M4 seems like.. if i shoot at them enough, they're dropping. and i know when they're dropping it seems like, bust a few shots and reload quickly. sometimes i can jump the gun a bit when i come across painkiller guys, but if i get out of aim down sights i just spray at them to finish them off quickly.

i like to have my magazine falling out of the gun and a new one clipped in as their body is still hitting the floor.

[Timmo]

IMO, SP isn't that useful on the FAMAS/M16 as without it they still kill in one burst until "far range". With SP it is a one burst kill at all ranges. But at "far ranges", the bullet spread of the 3 shot bursts means that getting all to hit a moving target may be hard. So I tend to find that at "far distances" I often need two burst with SP.

I'd disagree pretty strongly with that, as the chances of all three bullets hitting often aren't that high if the target is moving. They're the only two assault rifles I'd always always using stopping power on, because in a 50-50, if the first burst doesn't kill then you're often very likely to die.

This is quite hard to explain without showing it, but most people who use those two guns swear by stopping power, myself included.

[Soi]

I think it is far to say that people should either pick one of the burst rifles (FAMAS/M16) if they like the burst, or pick one of these:

TAR (high damage, high recoil, high RoF)

SCAR (high damage, low recoil, low RoF)

ACR (low damage, low recoil, high RoF)

Which you prefer will depend on how you like the iron sights or the RoF/recoil balance.

Any of the FAMAS/M16, TAR, SCAR or ACR are decent and the best gun for you will be the gun that suits your play style.

I can't see a reason to pick any of the others ever. The M4 is just a slightly worse ACR. The F2000 has terrible recoil AND low damage (i.e. a MUCH worse ACR). The AK47 is just a TAR with idle sway.. The FAL is just rubbish compared to the others.

[Soi]

I'd disagree pretty strongly with that, as the chances of all three bullets hitting often aren't that high if the target is moving. They're the only two assault rifles I'd always always using stopping power on, because in a 50-50, if the first burst doesn't kill then you're often very likely to die.

Fair enough. Like lots of things, it depends on how you play. I used a silenced FAMAS/M16 without SP for my first 2000 odd kills and seemed to rarely need a second burst if my aim was right.

At close range against a fast moving target, SP will kill if only two bullets hit. Without SP, you'd need another burst. Which equals death. So at close range, you are completely right, SP might mean the difference between a kill or certain death if not all of the 3 shots hit.

But at further ranges, if the chances of all three bullets hitting aren't that high if the target is moving, then you need two bursts with SP. But you'd probably need two bursts without SP. So with or without SP, it is two bursts at further distances.

More accurately, if you are at the range where for every burst on a moving target only 2 bullets hit, then with or without SP you need two bursts. If you are at the range where for every burst on a moving target only 1 bullet hits, then with SP you need three bursts. without SP you need four bursts. If you need three bursts to take down the target, then you should probably be using a sniper.

I stand by what I said about SP not being as useful on the FAMAS/M16 as the other guns (SCAR, TAR in particular). I think the benefits of SP on the FAMAS/M16 are for close range combat against fast moving targets, and for that you'd be better off with a SCAR or TAR anway.

[Isaac]

The iron sights on the SCAR are way way better for me. Some don't like them, but I'm probably better with them than a red-dot. I'm not very good with the TAR ones. The TAR fires a little faster but the bullet power is identical.

The TAR is my weapon of choice in my Danger Close class, though.

I've actually gotten to really like the Tar's iron sights after using it for ages with my Danger Close class. I have 2200-odd kills with the Tar, and I've never used it without a noob tube on

[Soi]

The iron sights on the SCAR are way way better for me. Some don't like them, but I'm probably better with them than a red-dot. I'm not very good with the TAR ones. The TAR fires a little faster but the bullet power is identical.

The TAR is my weapon of choice in my Danger Close class, though.

I'm interested in why you pick the TAR over the SCAR for your Danger Close class. Is the grenade launcher better?

I had decided to do exactly the same (my main class is SCAR + silencer + SP), but had no particular reason to do so.

[Isaac]

I'm interested in why you pick the TAR over the SCAR for your Danger Close class. Is the grenade launcher better?

I had decided to do exactly the same (my main class is SCAR + silencer + SP), but had no particular reason to do so.

As I said before, I prefer the tar over the scar as a rifle. The grenade launcher is the same on all guns. I much prefer the faster RoF on the TAR, especially as the only times I tend to use my rifle with my danger close class is at extreme close range, and at close range RoF wins over recoil every single time.

[Pob]

On a Danger Close class you'd probably be shooting bullets at close range, and obvs you won't have Stopping Power, so the small clip on the SCAR could see you coming a cropper. So I use the TAR (and of course it has higher RoF).

[goofy pls]

I really like the TAR irons, tbh. I'm just addicted to the M4 for some reason.

[Pob]

Is recoil where the game gets its 'accuracy' reading from? So, the TAR has fairly poor accuracy according to the in-game graph. Is this because if you fire it on full auto the shots will spread all over the place when compared with the ACR?

Will the first round from any gun go dead centre on where it's aimed?

[Soi]

Is recoil where the game gets its 'accuracy' reading from? So, the TAR has fairly poor accuracy according to the in-game graph. Is this because if you fire it on full auto the shots will spread all over the place when compared with the ACR?

Will the first round from any gun go dead centre on where it's aimed?

The first shot will fire exactly where the sights are. Shots after that spread around in a pattern determined by the gun.

Shots with the recoil for every gun:

http://denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi?b...&thread=417

[goofy pls]

Hmm. Not sure how I missed that thread. The ungripped MG4 accuracy is interesting.

The Desert Eagle says it all about that gun really.

[Soi]

Hmm. Not sure how I missed that thread. The ungripped MG4 accuracy is interesting.

The Desert Eagle says it all about that gun really.

I love the Riot Shield pattern.

[deerokus]

I alos like the TAR iron sights, my default setup with that is Bling with Heartbeat sensor and either FMJ, Extended Mags, noob tube or Silencer depending on how I feel. It doesn't really need Extended Mags though. My favourite gun in this game.

Recoil is only really a problem if you stick an ACOG or thermal scope on it. It is a lot like the AK in CoD4.

[dayte]

it's strange because the weapons you feel comfiest with don't necessarily provide the best results e.g. RPD, one of the worst weapons out there and I got 16 kills in a match (my highest score), whereas my fave the UMP only gets around 8 per match.

[deerokus]

RPD is not one of the worst at all! It's very very similar to the CoD4 version, which was the best gun in that game.