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Scog

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The Bag

The Bag

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Posted

These games are also on PC and Mac (this particular one doesn't seem to be out yet on PC, but is coming this month). For no apparent reason those versions are double the price, which is very poor practice in my opinion.

http://www.spiderweb...m/products.html

Jeff talks about that stuff here: http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/our-first-game-is-out-for-ipad-hooray.html

It hasn't all been love and group hugs. Some of my fans have been seriously furious that we sell Avadon for Mac and Windows for $25 and the iPad version is $10. Like, "I will never be your customer again. Die in a fire." furious. I don't normally explain my decisions about pricing, but this merits a few words.

The same game is almost always priced differently on different devices. If you look at the prices charged for, say, Peggle, Plants vs. Zombies, or Angry Birds on different platforms, you'll find a huge variety. Angry Birds on the iPhone? One dollar. On the Macintosh? Five dollars. That's a five times difference!

There are a variety of reasons, all of them out of my control, for why I feel it is appropriate to charge less for the iPad version:

1. It has fewer features, due to the limitations of the device. Most notably, it is stuck at 1024x768 resolution and there are no keyboard shortcuts.

2. Since it is being sold by Apple, it is subject to the rules of their system. Most notably, there is DRM, and we can't give refunds through iTunes. Games bought directly from Spiderweb have no DRM and a Money Back Guarantee.

3. When you buy Mac/PC Avadon from us, you get a registration key that can be used to unlock an unlimited number of copies, over both Mac and Windows. A registration over iTunes isn't quite so liberal.

4. There is no ability to mod the game. This matters to more people than you might think.

But the main reason Avadon HD is $10 is, to be honest, that is the only possible price. Any more expensive, and it will cost way too much for an app. Any cheaper, and we're charging too little for what is still an old school niche product with a limited audience. If you try to look at it from our perspective, I think you will see that we didn't have a lot of options here.

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Cheeko

Cheeko

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I don't really see any justification for the $25 price tag in that quote though, the whole explanation comes across as the guy not really listening or wanting to see it from any other point of view.

"I think you will see we don't have a lot of options here", or it's "out of my control", no, it is entirely under your control.

Comparing a $1 and $5 dollar price difference doesn't even make sense, like justifying a 500k house against a 1m house because some sweet shops sell cola bottle sweets for 1p and others for 2p

Bullshit, he points out within the explanation that you can use the serial as many times as you want, so it seems to be a backhanded way of saying 'why don't you club together and share serials' but if that's the case then why not just save everyone the hassle and reduce the price?

Then goes on to say that not being able to issue refunds in itunes is a reason to lower the price? Not even relevant.

Price should be defined by what reasonable people are willing to pay, not by a load of excuses. He'd be better off cutting it down to $15

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toythatkills

toythatkills

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The problem is that when people complain it's not the same price, they don't really give a shit that it's not the same price. What they really mean is "why isn't the Mac version $10?" It's not like they're trying to suggest that they should both be $25, they just want shit for cheap and with two different versions at different prices it's an easy target.

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The Bag

The Bag

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I don't really see any justification for the $25 price tag in that quote though, the whole explanation comes across as the guy not really listening or wanting to see it from any other point of view.

"I think you will see we don't have a lot of options here", or it's "out of my control", no, it is entirely under your control.

Comparing a $1 and $5 dollar price difference doesn't even make sense, like justifying a 500k house against a 1m house because some sweet shops sell cola bottle sweets for 1p and others for 2p

Bullshit, he points out within the explanation that you can use the serial as many times as you want, so it seems to be a backhanded way of saying 'why don't you club together and share serials' but if that's the case then why not just save everyone the hassle and reduce the price?

Then goes on to say that not being able to issue refunds in itunes is a reason to lower the price? Not even relevant.

Price should be defined by what reasonable people are willing to pay, not by a load of excuses. He'd be better off cutting it down to $15

Because that's the price they sold at since the late '90s, why should it be any cheaper? As you say it should be priced at what people are willing to pay and people are willing to pay that, else it would be a different price. But that's not the only concern when pricing something, it also has to be priced so they company can survive. You say they should price it at $15, why? Do you have any reason beyond "I think it should be cheaper" or "if it's cheaper they'll sell more"? Cliff Harris sells his games at a similar price and he did experiment with cutting the price, like people keep suggesting he should do, but didn't tell anyone so it was a fair test and not affected by increased traffic from telling people their was a sale/price different. He found that sales did increas but not by enough to cover the drop in price.

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Alex W.

Alex W.

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How hard is it to understand? He did not make the PC/Mac version more expensive, he made the iPad version cheaper to compensate people for what he sees as deficiencies. You can't reasonably demand that he drop the price of the desktop version just because he's doing iPad owners a favour.

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JPickford

JPickford

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How hard is it to understand? He did not make the PC/Mac version more expensive, he made the iPad version cheaper to compensate people for what he sees as deficiencies. You can't reasonably demand that he drop the price of the desktop version just because he's doing iPad owners a favour.

More likely he dropped the iPad price because you can't realistically make your game massively more expensive than everything else on the system. The the other stuff just comes across as after-the-fact justification.

We get some people belly-aching about prices for IAPs in Magnetic Billiards. Yet a few years ago selling an indie game for $19.99 was normal. People will always moan.

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ZOK

ZOK

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I don't see how it's even an issue...iirc PC versions of games are always around £10 cheaper than console versions. You price at the market price for that platform, presumably, and the customer decides if they want it or not.

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Andy_Why

Andy_Why

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How is everyone getting on with this? Tempted to pick this up as I loved Ascension...

I've played the physical card game a few times and it really is very different to ascension, and IMO, nowhere near as good. To the extent that a fair few people I know who own the game still play it but alter the rules a fair bit in order to make it more enjoyable, which is something you couldn't do with the iPad app. I still has some interesting ideas however, so I'll probably end up picking it up once it goes on sale.

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Flub

Flub

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To be perfectly honest given the scarcity of that sort of RPG these days I'm happy to pay the prices he charges. So far I have Avadon and Avernum 1 on the iPad. I got the Mac/Windows version of Avadon in the Android humble bundle and I've also bought Avernum 6 on the Mac App store. As soon as I've finished those I'm planning to play my way through the back catalogue. If any of you guys like this sort of game and love a challenge grab one of these and crank up the difficulty. Hard is *fucking* hard.

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Cheeko

Cheeko

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You say they should price it at $15, why? Do you have any reason beyond "I think it should be cheaper" or "if it's cheaper they'll sell more"?

I'm suggesting it based on the fact that he said he's getting a load of abuse about it which caused him to write the response. I'd only read the quote but reading the article he's not saying there's any problem with sales though so yeah, just leave it as is and let the moaners moan.

JPickford summed it up, it can't be any more expensive on iPad, he should've just deleted those other reasons.

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Dudley

Dudley

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More likely he dropped the iPad price because you can't realistically make your game massively more expensive than everything else on the system. The the other stuff just comes across as after-the-fact justification.

We get some people belly-aching about prices for IAPs in Magnetic Billiards. Yet a few years ago selling an indie game for $19.99 was normal. People will always moan.

That said, I bought bugger all indie games back then.

I bought the skeleton key dlc for "MBill" about 14 seconds after downloading it.

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JPickford

JPickford

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I thought it was my thumbs.

It most likely is. If you don't release your finger very quickly the area touching the screen may change shape as you release and this might be mistaken by the game as a movement.

In Magnetic Billiards we added a little damping to compensate for this. When you release it uses the position from a few frames ago. Hold still for a split second before releasing (which is natural anyway) and the aim will be accurate and not disturbed when you lift your finger.

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MrHendo

MrHendo

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Conquist 2 has absorbed my long weekend so far. It's an incredible implimentatin of Risk, which has helped me get through this dark time between our Risk Legacy campaign.

Cheers for this, me and a mate love playing Risk so we both bought this.

Asynchronous multiplayer on it would make it perfect but it's still a damn good version of Risk. Looks lovely on the iPad too :)

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joeplus

joeplus

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It most likely is. If you don't release your finger very quickly the area touching the screen may change shape as you release and this might be mistaken by the game as a movement.

I just noticed because it never happens in the other games, like Seasons which I've played recently. Also good on you for MB, etc.

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Paulando

Paulando

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In Magnetic Billiards we added a little damping to compensate for this. When you release it uses the position from a few frames ago. Hold still for a split second before releasing (which is natural anyway) and the aim will be accurate and not disturbed when you lift your finger.

I fucking love you guys.

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Teeohbee

Teeohbee

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Ok so I know it's not really iPhone related but seeing as we're on the topic of the Spiderweb Games (Avadon, Avernum et al), does anyone have any recommendations as to which one to pick up?

The news of a Baldurs Gate re-release has got me wanting an old-school WRPG, and those Spiderweb games look pretty old-school. I'd be playing on Mac and seen that there's three available on the mac app store, Avernum 6, Avadon and Avernum: Escape from the Pit, all for £10.50.

I'm tempted to go with the latter just because its the latest release and in an new series, does anyone have any recommendations? Will it scratch my Baldurs Gate-like itch?

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Flub

Flub

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Avadon is the new series. I believe Escape from the Pit is a remake of the original Avernum I (Previously called the Exile series). Game systems wise Avernum 6 is the oldest (I was having a play with that this morning). Avadon has been designed to be more accommodating to newer players (Although is still the same basic game systems as the others). Avernum 6 and Escape from the Pit let you choose a full set of 4 characters at the start. Avadon lets you make one and you pick up NPCs along the way.

Personally I wouldn't start with 6. Go for either Avadon or Escape from the Pit. I'm not very far into Avadon but I'm really enjoying Escape from the Pit. I like supporting this guy. The entire team is three people and only one of them is a coder.

If I had to pick only one to start with after what I've seen of the three I'd go with Escape from the Pit.

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