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New patent from Nintendo and Miyamoto


HarMGM
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See, when I make this argument in favour of quicksaving, people get offended. That's the power of Nintendo for you.

That's a completely different solution from what Nintendo are suggesting. It's hardly their fault if you're wrong is it.

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This would be a fucking God send in RPGs that make you grind.

You know, I think there might be a better solution to that particular problem than letting you use a skip/watch function. I can't quite figure out what it might be, though... :)

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Haven't we seen a couple of nudges in this direction recently? I'm thinking Tomb Raider Underworld where there's an option to bring up a context-sensitive hint and also in Dead Space where the blue trail on the floor leads you on the path to the next objective. OK, not that close to what Nintendo seem to be planning, but more in-game assistance can only be a good thing from my perspective. I wish the same was true in the section of Star Wars TFU where I got stuck last night....

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The patent sounds very similar to a DVD directors audio track, you can select this (digest mode) and it will show the designers showing you "how" to get past the current stage. But guess what? You can't save in digest mode... so you would have to do it all again, once you've seen how it's done...

Also, it seems the scene mode is again very similar to a DVD "scene select" mode, where you can select a specific scene to replay.

I think it's hilarious that a feature in DVDs (additional audio tracks, scene selection) are seen as dumbing down, when used in gaming. I haven't seen many film fans screaming at the fact that you can, out of your own choice, find out how the director made the scene, or just jump to your favourite scene. They are seen as "benefits" in the DVD world, and I think it's a pretty damning statement of the games community, when something similar is absolutely shot down when applied to games. I'm just grateful that there's more casual gamers playing now, if it means we get more of this.

Overall, I think this is a fantastic idea if done correctly. If you could bring up "digest" mode and it can show you how to get past a particular obstacle, with no additional "faffing" around then great. I'm getting really fed up having to have my console on, and then have a laptop running in the background with GameFaqs on.

Will this stop people's enjoyment? Depends on who the person is (it is optional)- my other half recently started Prof Layton, on the DS. She got so flummoxed on some of the puzzles that she had to have GameFaqs running as a reference (after I showed her the site). She ended up completing the game in about 5 hours (in a single sitting)- and she probably "cheated" on a third of the puzzles. Did she enjoy it any less? Of course she didn't! But guess what... she would have given up after the first puzzle she couldn't solve, if she didn't have GameFaqs. And she would have said the game was terrible, instead of being fantastic (she raves about it to her friends).

It does raise the question of the future of published Game Guides, mind you.

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The patent sounds very similar to a DVD directors audio track, you can select this (digest mode) and it will show the designers showing you "how" to get past the current stage. But guess what? You can't save in digest mode... so you would have to do it all again, once you've seen how it's done...

Also, it seems the scene mode is again very similar to a DVD "scene select" mode, where you can select a specific scene to replay.

I think it's hilarious that a feature in DVDs (additional audio tracks, scene selection) are seen as dumbing down, when used in gaming. I haven't seen many film fans screaming at the fact that you can, out of your own choice, find out how the director made the scene, or just jump to your favourite scene. They are seen as "benefits" in the DVD world, and I think it's a pretty damning statement of the games community, when something similar is absolutely shot down when applied to games. I'm just grateful that there's more casual gamers playing now, if it means we get more of this.

Overall, I think this is a fantastic idea if done correctly. If you could bring up "digest" mode and it can show you how to get past a particular obstacle, with no additional "faffing" around then great. I'm getting really fed up having to have my console on, and then have a laptop running in the background with GameFaqs on.

Will this stop people's enjoyment? Depends on who the person is (it is optional)- my other half recently started Prof Layton, on the DS. She got so flummoxed on some of the puzzles that she had to have GameFaqs running as a reference (after I showed her the site). She ended up completing the game in about 5 hours (in a single sitting)- and she probably "cheated" on a third of the puzzles. Did she enjoy it any less? Of course she didn't! But guess what... she would have given up after the first puzzle she couldn't solve, if she didn't have GameFaqs. And she would have said the game was terrible, instead of being fantastic (she raves about it to her friends).

It does raise the question of the future of published Game Guides, mind you.

Good post, welcome to the forum.

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It would be good if there was a level of depth in the digest mode, so perhaps you could see a vid or something just as a clue, rather than the entire solution - I suppose in a similar way to Prof. Layton's clues but with the full answer as well.

I think it's potentially a very good idea, proof will be in the pudding I suppose.

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I think that charles has brought up some excellent points (and although I don't agree with all of his opinions), he's hit most of them spot on.

a few things to consider. like content in films, those of us that have been waggling joysticks for 10+ years expect more. movies have become more graphic (both in sexuality and violence depiction) and the same can be said for our games becoming more immersive (a huge step up from the days of the simplistic run and jump platformers of the nes/mega drive era).

unlike movies, this jump in immersion brings a steeper learning curve for those who haven't been gaming for the past few years.

in the retail store where I've working for the holiday season, a gentleman (probably in his mid 40's) came in the other evening asking for a title for the wii that something somewhere inbetween the skeet shooting from wii play and COD:W@W because unlike his brother (who "lived" videogames and played hours upon hours of games like COD, HALO and the like), he was new to whole videogame thing. basically, he wanted something that was a bit more than pick up and play, but less than the total immersion and button memorization of something like COD because he couldn't see himself taking the time to live and breath the game like many of those found on xbox live/psn because he used them for casual (yes, I used *that* word) enjoyment.

charles pointed comments of being able to do one logical thing but not another like burn the web, but not cut through it is an excellent example of things that we "gamers" take for granted and accept (although we still may bitch and moan about), but are completely foreign to the new comers.

personally, I see it as a step forward, but I have to wonder how other portions of the industry will react (and be affected). I know that the strategy guide companies pay for the right to publish "official" guides in one form or another, and this could potentially put them out of business if enough companies were to implement something like this on all platforms.

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Hints or Tips that are customised to just how stuck you are & how much help you want could be the way to go.

I was always rather impressed with the Riven: The Sequel to Myst (yes, that was its name) strategy guide. It gave you 5 different levels of hint for the game, with the first level just vague pointers designed to help you get going again after being stuck & the last level spelling everything out for you.

Having something like that built into the game could be great for all skill levels. You might be going great guns through the next Zelda but get stuck because you don't realise a certain action with a certain item is possible. You ask for just a general hint & get one tailored to your current location & progress like "have you tried alternate uses of the Hookshot?" & if that is'nt enough you can ask for a more specific hint which gives you "The Hookshot can pull things to you". You then hopefully get the satisfaction of figuring out for yourself what you need to do to pull that wooden handled switch that's just out of reach without it having to be spelled out for you.

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Having something like that built into the game could be great for all skill levels. You might be going great guns through the next Zelda but get stuck because you don't realise a certain action with a certain item is possible. You ask for just a general hint & get one tailored to your current location & progress like "have you tried alternate uses of the Hookshot?" & if that is'nt enough you can ask for a more specific hint which gives you "The Hookshot can pull things to you". You then hopefully get the satisfaction of figuring out for yourself what you need to do to pull that wooden handled switch that's just out of reach without it having to be spelled out for you.

Ironically, this is something that that most traditional of gaming formats - the text adventure - often gets right. A large portion of Interactive Fiction comes packed with inbuilt hint systems, some of which work with exactly such a system of incremental suggestions.

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Ironically, this is something that that most traditional of gaming formats - the text adventure - often gets right. A large portion of Interactive Fiction comes packed with inbuilt hint systems, some of which work with exactly such a system of incremental suggestions.

In the last episode of Season 1 of the new Sam & Max game Max became a sort of interactive humorous hint system. You could ask him about a certain thing & his response would be humorous quip with a hint buried in it. My favorite was his response of "He's like a Continent" when I asked how to budge a certain extremely heavy character as I immediately clicked which one of my many items & options he was alluding to.

I haven't played Season 2, but I would suppose that it features the same kind of system.

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The patent sounds very similar to a DVD directors audio track, you can select this (digest mode) and it will show the designers showing you "how" to get past the current stage. But guess what? You can't save in digest mode... so you would have to do it all again, once you've seen how it's done...

Also, it seems the scene mode is again very similar to a DVD "scene select" mode, where you can select a specific scene to replay.

I think it's hilarious that a feature in DVDs (additional audio tracks, scene selection) are seen as dumbing down, when used in gaming. I haven't seen many film fans screaming at the fact that you can, out of your own choice, find out how the director made the scene, or just jump to your favourite scene. They are seen as "benefits" in the DVD world, and I think it's a pretty damning statement of the games community, when something similar is absolutely shot down when applied to games. I'm just grateful that there's more casual gamers playing now, if it means we get more of this.

Overall, I think this is a fantastic idea if done correctly. If you could bring up "digest" mode and it can show you how to get past a particular obstacle, with no additional "faffing" around then great. I'm getting really fed up having to have my console on, and then have a laptop running in the background with GameFaqs on.

Poor comparison, in my opinion. The commentaries in DVDs are there to provide context, both to the process of creating a film and the themes within. It is not a hand-holding guide to understanding those themes, or an excuse for directors to become lazy in areas like editing, pacing and the elimination of plot holes. A commentary on a video game DVD would provide much the same function as it would for a film and isn't what Nintendo are proposing here. What they seem to be developing is a system that will essentially allow them to stop worrying about the tricky issue of creating games with fair learning curves, intuitive design, logical challenges and a good balance between frustration, effort and reward because, hey, you can always skip the annoying parts or watch a video, right? I fear that with this system in place there will be little incentive to improve.

These are significant problems, sure, but with time, thought and effort I'm sure they can be overcome in a much more elegant fashion than this. This is a depressing solution, for me.

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I hardly see Nintendo abusing it like you say, their games are generally always very fair and well thought-out with regards to accessibility and challenge, they just realise that even that isn't enough for some newer gamers, yet they don't want to patronise the more experienced. Whether I would trust other developers with the feature is another matter.

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I hardly see Nintendo abusing it like you say, their games are generally always very fair and well thought-out with regards to accessibility and challenge, they just realise that even that isn't enough for some newer gamers, yet they don't want to patronise the more experienced. Whether I would trust other developers with the feature is another matter.

This.

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