Demon's Souls - remake's OUT - mindful of the spoilers, please!

[Curtis]

There are plenty of low walls in 1-3 that you can jump over. Helps you get back to the start of the level alot quicker, when the inevitable invasion warning pops up.

TBH until about a month ago, i didn't actually know you could vault that wall in 1-1. I've always rolled down the stairs, bounced off the top of the wall and landed crashing into those cupboards behind Ostrava. That's the way i've told people to do it for almost a year!

See: ya learn something new every day!

[imp]

TBH until about a month ago, i didn't actually know you could vault that wall in 1-1. I've always rolled down the stairs, bounced off the top of the wall and landed crashing into those cupboards behind Ostrava. That's the way i've told people to do it for almost a year!

Me too.

[Alan Stock]

Yeah Jed got it spot on why I thought it was bad design. The very first time I played 1-1 I saw the treasure, ran along the wall for a bit and understandably thought "oh, guess I'll be coming round there another way". Then forgot about it completely!

So Jed, did you get through to Miralda because of the Valentines day thing making the gate open or did you do it the hard way by changing the tendancy yourself? I actually tried to fall into that area through the hole in the floor with the swirls coming out of it, when you go up the stairs to the left just before the Phalanx. But it seems to kill you automatically even though it looks like you could survive the fall to the walkways below.

I had some fun trying to kill the dragons in 1-1, they are in bow range but it takes a tiny sliver of health off. Sadly you don't get enough time to run in and cast ranged spells before you get flamed to hell. But one day I will have them! I got my long awaited revenge on the git red-eye knight up on the walkway too. He still nearly killed me though! Pity the door is locked (I saw on the map that Dorian or something is behind it, the Old King you guys mention sometimes... guess it'll be a while for that as well!). At least getting around 1-1 is simple now, most of the enemies die in one hit. If only there was some sort of super speed too

Anyone know why my Thief ring seems to do nowt, or does it only work against certain enemy types?

[JedEvangelion]

So Jed, did you get through to Miralda because of the Valentines day thing making the gate open or did you do it the hard way by changing the tendancy yourself?

No, I'm on the US server, there was a White tendency over Xmas so I did it then. It HAS been open a couple times since then for me, so it might have been a personal tendency, but like so many others I can't make head nor tail of that world tendency screen.

Anyone know why my Thief ring seems to do nowt, or does it only work against certain enemy types?

Dunno mate, could be other things affecting it? Are you wearing the black leather Assassin armour already? Or using that Hide spell? It might add nothing to those. Otherwise, I think anything that shows up as a buff icon under your stamina bar acts in the opposite direction and makes you less stealthy - I heard the Kris Blade did this, and it seems to a little - try getting within lockon range of a mob member and, with ring equipped, equip and unequip your Kris in your left hand. At the right range it definitely pulls a dude towards you as soon as you equip the Kris blade. Hardly an empirical test, I know, but I keep it in mind now if I'm stealthing, tend to keep my Kris unequipped until I start a-casting my spells.

[Curtis]

@ Alan - Just because you didn't figure it out doesn't mean it's badly designed.

All those months and countless playtimes ago, do you know how i figured it out? - By watching the white ghost outline of another player!

Just so ya know; you can't kill the Dragons in 1-1. You can kill the Red one in 1-2 and the Blue in 1-4.

I'm not sure why you're still moaning about the Thiefs Ring - it only increases the distance before enemies get aggro. It doesn't make you invisible. To my knowledge the only item that counteracts the rings effects, is the Silver Bracelet, which is the womens only accessory that grants you more souls per kill.

You're coming across as someone who enjoys whining more than actually playing the game! Maybe it's just not for you?

[Alan Stock]

@ Alan - Just because you didn't figure it out doesn't mean it's badly designed.

All those months and countless playtimes ago, do you know how i figured it out? - By watching the white ghost outline of another player!

Just so ya know; you can't kill the Dragons in 1-1. You can kill the Red one in 1-2 and the Blue in 1-4.

I'm not sure why you're still moaning about the Thiefs Ring - it only increases the distance before enemies get aggro. It doesn't make you invisible. To my knowledge the only item that counteracts the rings effects, is the Silver Bracelet, which is the womens only accessory that grants you more souls per kill.

You're coming across as someone who enjoys whining more than actually playing the game! Maybe it's just not for you?

Yeah I must come across as a massive whiner! I do voice my woes more with this game because often there's good advice from the likes of yourself. I do still enjoy and hate the game in equal measure, it dips into the level of frustration too much sometimes, but be assured I still enjoy it just as much - after all I do post about my victories too. I'll stop moaning so much on here though and just get on with it

The Thief's ring, it didn't seem to do anything so I thought it might be a bug. Now I know how it works it makes more sense, cheers guys.

[Uzi]

I know some people think that all games should be tackled fresh with no guides or walkthroughs, but its actually wise and will improve your DS experience if you read up on it a little from the demon souls wiki. You don't have to read entire walkthroughs for level, but its a complex and confusing game when it comes to working out how you want to proceed with your character, what to upgrade etc. It's enrichens the experience to take some research with it, won't ruin it at all imo

[Gloomy Andy]

Alan the Theifs Ring in DS is more like the Alterness job trait for Rangers in FFXI (which I know you played) - ie. it's not a silent oil or prism powder in that it doesn't totally stop aggro it just reduces the enemy aggro range a bit.

I've taken to wearing theif + cling pretty much all the time.

I only put my fragrant on when I've either cleared out a room or know that I have a chance to get some regen in and then I swap it out for Theif.

Really need to get back into this I still haven't finished 3-1 from when that big grey blob wiped me out last time.

[df0]

Question time

Is there a reason why some of my Stats are capped?

I am a Knight focussed on Melee. My stats are:

Vit 37

Int 14

End 35

Str 30

Dex 24

Mag 13

Fai 12

Luc 10

If I upgrade Str (more attack power never hurt anyone) the Attack Power stays 384. Phys Def stays 194. Same goes for Dex: stats stay the same apart from Saf Land which is increased to from 14 to 16. Is there a reason for this? Did I reach an invisible cap?

I can upgrade Vit, End, Int etc. NG+ btw, alive. Wearing Black Leather set and wielding Demonbrandt as my most special weapon.

[Kelthink]

Eventually you have to start raising the soul level of stats 2 or 3 times (or even more eventually) just to see the main stat go up by one.

[imp]

If I upgrade Str (more attack power never hurt anyone) the Attack Power stays 384.

Depends on the weaponry you are using - and more specifically what bonus stats you get from high strength.

[Curtis]

^ This!

Just because the number on the soul level stat doesn't increase, doesn't mean the added parameters from whatever weapon you're using won't increase (dependant on upgrade path).

[df0]

Cheers lads.

Confusing stuff!

[JedEvangelion]

I know some people think that all games should be tackled fresh with no guides or walkthroughs, but its actually wise and will improve your DS experience if you read up on it a little from the demon souls wiki. You don't have to read entire walkthroughs for level, but its a complex and confusing game when it comes to working out how you want to proceed with your character, what to upgrade etc. It's enrichens the experience to take some research with it, won't ruin it at all imo

Interesting this. I've dipped occasionally into the Wiki but I prefer to try and figure the game systems out for myself. I know Alan's the same way - it must be a designer pride thing.

Not sure how using a Wiki/FAQ sits against asking advice on a forum though....! Asking and discussing with mates has always been a 'legitimate' practice in my gaming I guess.

This and Persona 4 are probably the most Wiki/FAQ reliant games that I've played. I'm from a school of thought that all games should ideally be self-teaching and self-contained in their help systems, but these days everything's about monetising this and saving money on that, so it's no surprise that more complex games are just accepting that they don't need to bend over backwards to teach players their intricacies as said players will buy a guide or use a FAQ/Wiki.

My progress through DS would probably go quicker if I absorbed more of the Wiki but it doesn't half feel like cheating when I do it.....

[Alan Stock]

Interesting this. I've dipped occasionally into the Wiki but I prefer to try and figure the game systems out for myself. I know Alan's the same way - it must be a designer pride thing.

Not sure how using a Wiki/FAQ sits against asking advice on a forum though....! Asking and discussing with mates has always been a 'legitimate' practice in my gaming I guess.

This and Persona 4 are probably the most Wiki/FAQ reliant games that I've played. I'm from a school of thought that all games should ideally be self-teaching and self-contained in their help systems, but these days everything's about monetising this and saving money on that, so it's no surprise that more complex games are just accepting that they don't need to bend over backwards to teach players their intricacies as said players will buy a guide or use a FAQ/Wiki.

My progress through DS would probably go quicker if I absorbed more of the Wiki but it doesn't half feel like cheating when I do it.....

Yeah it's interesting to think what the developer intentions were behind the spread of information about the game. As you say Jed, I don't use the Wiki normally because I feel like I want to discover things for myself. But then if I can't suss things out I end up asking here or going onto the Wiki anyway. But by doing that I feel a bit guilty and lazy for not doing it the "hard way" - in every other single player game I wouldn't dream of using an FAQ or asking for advice unless I was really horribly stuck.

But Demon Souls is a slightly different kettle of fish in that it's a single player game with multiplayer interactions - so the player messaging system and ghosts are clearly built in as part of the design to educate players. But above that, out of the game world you have people using Wikis and chatting to each other to advance their progress. A lot of old school MMOs or MUDs used to do this too, but player chat communication was part of their game mechanics. So you'd be thrown in without a clue what was going on, but you would find out by chatting to other players in the game, or partying with other noobs to progress. Demon Souls is a weird hybrid of the two. I wonder how much of their content they intended to only be discovered by multiple playthroughs, and how they expected the information to be passed between players? I'm guessing some info was deliberately withheld from players to encourage communication. I'd be interested to see whether the creators had a plan in mind or they just put it out there as a sandbox and now are watching to see how people communicate and progress in the game.

It's an interesting conundrum for the player, as a designer I always want to play a game "as the creators intended", but with Demon Souls I'm never really sure what that intention was. In an MMO I would feel no guilt about asking for advice from higher level players in the game, in Demon Souls I am wondering "did they mean me to play through the game a few times to find this out, am I spoiling the experience they intended by fast-tracking my way through?". There is probably no "right" answer, you can play it how you like, unlike many other games, fast-tracking your way through the game doesn't spoil the experience for other people.

Demon Souls has definitely opened up new ways for players to communicate and work towards a common goal and partly relies on players interacting outside the game. When they do the inevitable sequel it will be really interesting to see how they approach player communication and education. If anyone sees any interviews with the devs on the subject I'd be interested to see

Err, I'll stop woffling now

[droodling]

Speaking of which...I have a question, or two!

I completed a first run through a couple of weeks back, did 1-1 and 1-2 on NG+ then got sidetracked by real life. Picked it up again last night and saw the Black world tendency event, so thought I'd have a crack at BP Rydell in Latria.

So having read wiki (sorry Alan!) it says he should be outside his cell, but after checking (a few times, went back to Nexus and reloaded game) he still never appeared, Just had the normal Rydell in his cell. Was pretty sure I had pure black, certainly had to despatch a couple of black phantom squid heads on the way. Do i need to have freed him first?

And is the summoning of blue phantoms restricted to players on the same run through/similar level? eg someone on NG+ can't summon someone on their first game?

Dfo, we still need to get some co-op sorted!!

[mechamonkey]

Whats the best way to meet up if you are planning some co-op?

[droodling]

as far as I know, agree a level/spot to meet, dead players (up to 2) drop blue stones and the live player summons them to their game as blue phantoms.

Can be a bit tricky to co-ordinate as I don't think theres a dedicated voice channel, and messaging requires going to the PS3 dash and sending a message. Not sure if there's a PSN chat channel (a la xbox live) you can use, only just bought a headset...

[imp]

as far as I know, agree a level/spot to meet, dead players (up to 2) drop blue stones and the live player summons them to their game as blue phantoms.

Can be a bit tricky to co-ordinate as I don't think theres a dedicated voice channel, and messaging requires going to the PS3 dash and sending a message. Not sure if there's a PSN chat channel (a la xbox live) you can use, only just bought a headset...

You won't be able to voice chat unless you use something else, like Skype on a laptop/iphone that's lying around, but what people usually do is start a text chat so you can quickly send and receive messages by just pushing the home button.

[Curtis]

Speaking of which...I have a question, or two!

I completed a first run through a couple of weeks back, did 1-1 and 1-2 on NG+ then got sidetracked by real life. Picked it up again last night and saw the Black world tendency event, so thought I'd have a crack at BP Rydell in Latria.

So having read wiki (sorry Alan!) it says he should be outside his cell, but after checking (a few times, went back to Nexus and reloaded game) he still never appeared, Just had the normal Rydell in his cell. Was pretty sure I had pure black, certainly had to despatch a couple of black phantom squid heads on the way. Do i need to have freed him first?

It couldn't have been pure black. That's caught me out in the past. The BP squid-heads appear at black-ish.

Suicide/revive in the level a couple of times, go back to Nexus, then re-enter 3-1 and you'll be gravy!

[Garwoofoo]

I'm new to this so apologies if I am missing something.

Does anyone else have problems with the online connection in this? I sometimes find that the game logs me in, gives me the message at the start about the Pure White/Pure Black event, but when I get to the game I'm actually offline. I can't write or recommend messages, there are no other players' ghosts running around etc. I need to quit to the menu and go back in to actually get the thing online. Any ideas?

[Garwoofoo]

mine does this. US version?

Yes. I've only had it a few days so I wasn't sure if it was a common problem. Once it's online, though, it seems to stay online so it's not too bad.

Got battered on 2-1 yesterday (told you it was early days for me) and lost several thousand souls when I died twice in quick succession. Strangely though it's just made me more determined to go back and kick its arse tonight. This is one of the best games I've played in ages.

[mechamonkey]

My US version also does this a lot.

[Masu]

It couldn't have been pure black. That's caught me out in the past. The BP squid-heads appear at black-ish.

Suicide/revive in the level a couple of times, go back to Nexus, then re-enter 3-1 and you'll be gravy!

late reply from me but this!

Also, bear in mind.. killing the black phantom squid heads shifts the tendency towards white..! So if you kill one, then die, when you return it will not be pure black. Also, the black phantom squiddies appear when its nearly pure black, so seeing them doesnt mean you have pure black tendency.

I only know this because I spent ages convinced I had been lookin in the wrong area for that bastard but I had died after killing the squiddy black phantom, so he was nowhere to be found!

[superpretend]

Aaaaahh, I can't beat the bloody Old Monk. Doesn't help that every time, it's a different player with a new strategy. Any tips? Or should I just go away, play the other levels and try again when I'm stronger?

[imp]

Aaaaahh, I can't beat the bloody Old Monk. Doesn't help that every time, it's a different player with a new strategy. Any tips? Or should I just go away, play the other levels and try again when I'm stronger?

Nah, they'll be stronger too. Either summon help at the start or play it offline for a really easy time of it.

[ryanski]

Yeah just play him offline, keep rolling to avoid his magic attack and attack as much as possible before he recharges it then keep rolling to avoid when he does.

[mechamonkey]

Damn my indiscisive ways. After dawdling about on what to spend my souls on I went for a quick farm of 1-1 to get some grass and ended up dying twice and losing the damn lot

[JedEvangelion]

My US version also does this a lot.

I've seen an answer about this somewhere before. It's just a bandwidth issue. Quitting to the menu and back in will sort it. Happened to me a few times, always easily sorted.

Pain in the arse though....

[Garwoofoo]

What's the best place to find a bow in the early game? I've had my arse kicked by 2-1's Armor Spider more often than I'd care to admit and I'm going to try the long-range approach. For now I've given up on him and will be checking out some of the other early levels, see if I have more success – or at least level up a bit.