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Can developers last in this gen?

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Then consider that Free Radical and Factor 5 both just spent several years effectively remaking games that largely owed their success in the previous gen by being in the right place at the right time.

Second Sight should have amounted to more than that. its story, gunplay, level design and physics demonstrated the level of their ambition. Shame ultimately they shoved it out.

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I don't believe they were - they are making 'Dante's Inferno'.

That's being made by EARS not the guys that did Dead Space iirc.

Just after I read that EA were going to lay off 1000 people I got an email from an EA headhunter... Someone hasn't heard the news.

I recon SCEE might shed some jobs, also I heard rumours that Ubi are going to cut ~2000 jobs.

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Just as long as the people fired from EA are not the guys who made Dead Space.

MORE PLZ!

I think Black Box was a major causality - the guys behind Need for Speed - Undercover. It's quite eye-opening seeing some of the opinions on this forum and other forums regarding these lay-offs. Horrible.

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I think Black Box was a major causality - the guys behind Need for Speed - Undercover. It's quite eye-opening seeing some of the opinions on this forum and other forums regarding these lay-offs. Horrible.

Get off your high horse, bad companies need to fail otherwise there's no incentive for quality or efficiency in the market. I'm sorry that it affects you personally but Midway are right at the top of that list right now.

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Get off your high horse, bad companies need to fail otherwise there's no incentive for quality or efficiency in the market. I'm sorry that it affects you personally but Midway are right at the top of that list right now.

Pathetic. Did you actually use your brain when you came up with that nonsense?

I just had to add to this. What is it with some people on this forum who make stuff personal and get their kicks out of being nasty pieces of work? Really, it drives me insane when I see crap like "bad companies need to fail otherwise there's no incentive for qulaity or effciency in the market". What kind of statement is that? The people who lost their jobs are part of an organisation, but that doesn't make them mad at their job because they're in a "bad" company.

People have lost their jobs and it amazes me how people on here and other news sites are commenting about it. It's pretty disheartening.

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No consolation but... this was released ages ago when the 'next turrican' rumoured game 'Thornado' had some concept art and music - a single track from the game nab it here

thor1.jpg

Some more info here I think

Thanks a lot for that :o.

It's certainly got the sort of sound you'd expect from a Turrican game, and you can tell it's been inspired by the earlier Turrican music.

Just thinking about Factor 5 and Turrican, I remember it wowing me on the Spectrum, as I think it was one of the first Speccy games I ever played that had so much colour. They were a talented dev, I may even give Lair a look if I can find it sub 5 pound.

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The problem is that luck has a big part in if a company does well or not. I'd argue that luck can be the worst thing to happen to a company. With one success they have to live up to it again, forcing them to up the quality, typecasting their games to be like their success, hanging them with their own IP (Worms for example) ...and since it was all luck in the first place, there is no guarrentee that the place will be run well enough during the good times, to survive the bad ones.

Many game companies aren't run well, because the guys that own it come from games and not business. Being so hit driven, that's okay if you keep making hits, but if you have a flop and you found out that you spunked all your money away and didn't plan for the future properly ...you're screwed.

Game companies that don't purely make AAA games ...they tend to be quite well run because they need to be. The ideal is to have several projects on the go at once, and different stages of development, different budgets, on different platforms...then if one screws up you have the others to fall back on.

Quality is a odd thing to judge. If a publisher wants to make a cheap cash-in, then they'll budget for a cheap cash-in not expecting too good a review score, but if the development company can punch above their weight then bravo. Some companies are given little money and little time to do it in, but come out of the other end with something they can be happy with and will hopefully pleasently surprise the publisher.

Then there are companies that are given stupid amounts of money and end up with something mediocre (lets say...Haze). This game may have been slated, but its safe to say that its better than a lot of low budget stuff.

So in theory, some of the companys that are not making "quality games" should still do well, and possibly take a step up, because the publisher is getting better value of money from them than throwing money at AAA. There many be smaller companies that you've never heard of going bust all over the place, but there are others that may do better out of this than some well-known names

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ED2 would be nice, like. OH GOD I WANT IT.

on the wii - with INSANITY WAGGLE

IGN seem to be talking as though Kid Icarus was actually in development. If Nintendo had given them that to develop then I very much doubt this would happened. Methinks IGN are talking poo.

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Pathetic. Did you actually use your brain when you came up with that nonsense?

I just had to add to this. What is it with some people on this forum who make stuff personal and get their kicks out of being nasty pieces of work? Really, it drives me insane when I see crap like "bad companies need to fail otherwise there's no incentive for qulaity or effciency in the market". What kind of statement is that? The people who lost their jobs are part of an organisation, but that doesn't make them mad at their job because they're in a "bad" company.

People have lost their jobs and it amazes me how people on here and other news sites are commenting about it. It's pretty disheartening.

You're understandably not able to be objective about Midway so I've said all I have to say.

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Northy, you're way out of line here.

Luck is a major factor in EVERY creative industry. And show some compassion for Christ's sake. None of these workers are trying to do bad work.

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Your thread's been nuked dude - I think it was for the best.

Nobody wants to see people out of work - it shouldn't need saying but (I'd hope) nobody is talking on a personal level about any of this.

Midway rock :P

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Northy, you're way out of line here.

Luck is a major factor in EVERY creative industry. And show some compassion for Christ's sake. None of these workers are trying to do bad work.

It was never my intention to make a personal attack and I apologise if anyone feels I have done so.

I absolutely stick by my original views though.

Edit: Yoshi, I deleted my own thread. I'm done with this now.

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Get off your high horse, bad companies need to fail otherwise there's no incentive for quality or efficiency in the market. I'm sorry that it affects you personally but Midway are right at the top of that list right now.

You leave Midway alone! :P

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I appreciate what Northy's saying, and on a purely logical basis he is right.

As an aside, many discussions regarding these layoffs have jumped to conclusions which are not true.

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Second Sight should have amounted to more than that. its story, gunplay, level design and physics demonstrated the level of their ambition. Shame ultimately they shoved it out.

Ahh those pubilshers and their pressure :P

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I appreciate what Northy's saying, and on a purely logical basis he is right.

As an aside, many discussions regarding these layoffs have jumped to conclusions which are not true.

I'm not sure he is right, it's not just luck but also poor business decisions that can make companies fail, this isn't always linked to the quality of the product. If, for example, media molecule, ninja theory or naughty dog were to shut would that mean they deserve to die simply because they made a game for a platform that doesn't have a big enough userbase at the time to guarantee them decent sales?

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Strictly, yes. You can't justify paying for things on "worthiness" in the games business. All commercially made games must ultimately have a market that justifies their existence, and it is the people paying for the making of the games that have the responsibility to ensure that through luck or other means that market ends up consuming the product. For example being in an early batch on to a new platform can be a great way to get lots of free exposure, though it has risks. (From the forum I would say we have people here that should have capitalised on the iPhone App Store launch better than we did, myself included, and now that particular opportunity has passed).

There are an incredible amount of untapped opportunities in the games industry. For the best imaginable example look at what Nintendo have done in the last few years. That's the tip of a very large iceberg, it's just that the industry has such a high proportion of geeks and nerds in it that they've made the mistake of believing that their customers are like that, when the bulk of them aren't.

Midway are a really special case, as there's no reason they should be failing right now. They once had a strong brand, and lots of money. It has been squandered through lots of poor decisions, for years now. (Something it's employees will be even more aware of than the rest of us). A small unknown developer has a different set of problems.

I think a lot of the industry woes fall under the category of simply lacking in imagination.

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Ahh those pubilshers and their pressure :D

hehe. actually no it was pretty clear at the time FRD just wanted it finished cos the team needed to go onto TS3. shame, a sequel with more puzzles would have been ace.

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I'd like to ask Northy if he's ever worked in the industry (or whether he still does)?

I previously worked as a designer on (Midway published) N.A.R.C. and then on Crackdown. I left the industry about 3 years ago now.

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There are too many expensive crap games out there. They can't do expensive FPS games with 4 years development with 120 staff, as it is not affordable.

They have to think more carefully about choosing projects. ie no good to do a football game if they wouldn't be able to compete with PES and Fifa series.

Sony and Microsoft need to do more and get rid off expensive licensing and 49.99 rrp

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I previously worked as a designer on (Midway published) N.A.R.C. and then on Crackdown. I left the industry about 3 years ago now.

Why did you leave? Have enough?

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I previously worked as a designer on (Midway published) N.A.R.C. and then on Crackdown. I left the industry about 3 years ago now.

Man, you must be, like, forty or something. Remember the Pixies cover version of Theme From N.A.R.C.?

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Why did you leave? Have enough?

I didn't feel that I had much control over the direction the games were taking. Also I didn't really like the idea of working on a single game for 2 or 3 years at a time when most of that is spent the endlessly cycling between pointless changes which caused most of the best ideas to be cut out completely due to lack of development time. Crackdown turned out to be a solid enough game but it's more "technology" (sandbox) gameplay than "design" (AI, missions, story) gameplay that ended up being anywhere close to how good the game could have been.

Man, you must be, like, forty or something. Remember the Pixies cover version of Theme From N.A.R.C.?

Just about to turn 30. I remember the Pixie's cover but unfortunately we were working on the more recent PS2 version which didn't even get released in the UK. I had to buy the Xbox port to actually play the finished game since Midway took it in-house once development reached Alpha and then (despite the game being pretty much identical to when I left it) credited the entire original development team as "special thanks" instead of in our actual roles on the project. That's why I don't like Midway. Well that and they make bad games.

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I previously worked as a designer on (Midway published) N.A.R.C. and then on Crackdown. I left the industry about 3 years ago now.

Oh man. NARC was terrible. REALLY terrible.

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Oh man. NARC was terrible. REALLY terrible.

Tell me about it. :D

It was a job in my home town of Dundee though so it was a great opportunity to get into game development.

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