Shmups

[ImmaculateClump]

Some Akai Katana shmup porn - https://streamable.com/bzh8q4

 

 

[ImmaculateClump]

My best run so far.

 

 

Is everyone else waiting for the regional console releases? I saw people saying that the same thing happened with deathsmiles. It came out in the japanese stores, but the rest of the world releases weren't out until two weeks later. Hopefully it doesn't take them that long this time.

 

Lots of conflicting reports about how much lag there is. Pearl measured it and says it's 2.5 frames, other people are saying it feels like more on their systems. It's not the most responsive shmup I've played, but it feels more than plenty good enough to me. People are complaining that the lasers don't knock you back. I forgot that was a thing, I didn't notice, it's been a long time since I played the 360 version.

 

One thing that is annoying is that they're using some dogshit scaling filter that makes everything look a bit soft. You can force integer scaling with a third party program, but shadowplay doesn't work with it, so rather than keep fannying about changing the zoom setting in game every time I want to record a replay, I've just left it how it is.

It's not that bad.

[englishbob]

Checked the UK PSN store for Akai Katana - shocker it's not there - so thinking about getting it physically from Play-Asia - assuming it'll run on a PS5 right?

 

What was the general final consensus on DeathSmiles on PS4? Remember reading about issues a while back, sorted or I read something wrong?

 

I have Deathtiny, ESP RA.DE and Dangun Feveron (from a Limited Run edition) on physical disc - in relation to Cave shooters on PS4/5 that's the lot isn't it so far?

 

Cheers

 

[phillv85]

Deathsmiles 1 is brilliant on PS4 but DS2 and it’s arranges (particularly IIX) are still varying degrees of worse than the 360 version sadly.

[englishbob]

42 minutes ago, phillv85 said:

Deathsmiles 1 is brilliant on PS4 but DS2 and it’s arranges (particularly IIX) are still varying degrees of worse than the 360 version sadly.

 

That's a shame - I've never played DS2 as the 360 one was region locked IIRC

[ImmaculateClump]

New experimental caravan game from boghog, Bmupshmup, mixing shmup with beat em up mechanics! Haven't tried it yet.

 

https://boghog.itch.io/bmup-shmup

 

 

1 hour ago, englishbob said:

assuming it'll run on a PS5 right?

 

Says here that it does - https://store.playstation.com/ja-jp/product/JP1091-CUSA32859_00-CC00000000001AKS

 

Quote

Please update your system software to the latest version to play this game on PS5. This game can be played on PS5, but some features available on PS4 may not be available on PS5.

 

PS4 and PS5 aren't region locked so you'll be fine playing the disc.

 

yeah, that's all the cave games so far.

[phillv85]

1 hour ago, englishbob said:

 

That's a shame - I've never played DS2 as the 360 one was region locked IIRC

Yea the 360 version is region locked. I’d definitely recommend playing it though. The IIX mode is my favourite arrange mode of any of the CAVE releases. It’s what DSII should have been. The PS4 version is perfectly playable, just the colours are off and the slowdown is heavily reduced compared to what came before.

[ImmaculateClump]

Mark's video on the Akai Katana port going live in 90 minutes.

 

 

[PikaStu]

Good analysis in Mark’s video, Steam version goes as low as 3 frames of lag while the Switch sits at 6. 
 

As someone who just dips their toes into shmups for a bit of fun, I doubt I’ll notice 6 frames. 

[ImmaculateClump]

Yeah, don't pay much attention to the input lag numbers.
To put it into context, at 60fps, the lag on the switch is around a tenth of a second.

 

 

Unless you're really susceptible to lag or you're going for a world record, you'll be dandy.

 

It's nice to see the comparison so people with multiple systems can make an informed decision, or decide whether they're gonna upgrade from the 360 version, but it's not something you should worry about until and if you start to notice it.

 

I've seen that obsessing over lag turn good men bad. If you wanna play on the switch, that's the best platform for you.

[immortaljellyfish]

1 hour ago, ImmaculateClump said:

Yeah, don't pay much attention to the input lag numbers.
To put it into context, at 60fps, the lag on the switch is around a tenth of a second.

 

 

Unless you're really susceptible to lag or you're going for a world record, you'll be dandy.

 

It's nice to see the comparison so people with multiple systems can make an informed decision, or decide whether they're gonna upgrade from the 360 version, but it's not something you should worry about until and if you start to notice it.

 

I've seen that obsessing over lag turn good men bad. If you wanna play on the switch, that's the best platform for you.

 

omg, this. I like Mark and I think he's done good things for the shmup genre, but I do think his open obsession with lag has contributed to a growing fixation on it within the community. Like, lag has been a thing forever, particularly since the switch to HD. It's only ever a problem in extreme circumstances. But when I hear Mark saying stuff like "2 frames is just about OK but 4 frames or above is unplayable" it makes my toes curl - particularly when you see it regurgitated by folk.

[ImmaculateClump]

Yeah, that whole "only play the switch version in handheld, if you're gonna play on a tv or monitor, you may as well buy the pc version"
Not everyone has a pc or enjoys playing games on there.
The great thing about the switch is how accessible it is and how many new converts it's brought into the genre.

 

Fair enough presenting the numbers, but telling people what they should do with that information is a step too far.

 

Saying things like that is at best gonna take the edge off their fun, and at worst scare them away from buying something they'd otherwise really enjoy playing.
I saw a couple of people in the chat the other night saying they were going to skip it and just stick to the deathsmiles port on the switch. All over a couple of frames.

 

Deathsmiles is 4 frames on the switch, and he gave that a thumbs up. He has to remember that impressionable new players are taking his word as gospel. When he tells them to keep their money in their pockets over those 2 extra frames, they're listening.

 

Another caravan game to try, Terrenus Paradisum - https://kevinmonitor.itch.io/terrenus-paradisum

[Klatrymadon]

I dunno, the importance of low latency might be overstated at times, but it's certainly detrimental when you can feel a definite lag. I don't have any way of testing the numbers here, but as I mentioned earlier, the lag in Akai Katana (on PC) goes from being negligible with vsync off to feeling like I'm playing a Mario ice level with it on, as it adds a few frames over the baseline of 3f or whatever. 6f is getting into "not good enough" territory for me because I know I'll always feel it, so I've tended to avoid playing on Switch because 6 seems to be the minimum for so many ports. Treating the 2f of the original PCBs (on CRT) as a baseline is probably useless, though, not least because most players won't have had access to them, so the question should be whether or not you can still clear the game (or still play it at a high level if you're particularly into it), whether or not it feels responsive to you, etc. Most folks don't seem to feel this sliding effect on any setup at all, heh...

[strawdonkey]

On 15/12/2022 at 16:06, geldra said:

Calling Dearhsmiles lovers!  What’s the attraction?  I’m aware that people who get it, love it. I don’t think I get it. What’s the deal? 

 

Bit late this! Sorry. I've probably put more time in to Deathsmiles than any other shmup save for Dodonpachi or Danmaku Unlimited 3 at this point, and I too wasn't originally feeling it. There was a small hump to get over at the start, mainly getting comfortable with firing in both directions and the fact that sometimes you do just get owned by things coming from a direction you don't expect them from; once you're a bit more familiar with the stages and where the occasional dickhead enemy appears from it becomes a lot easier to manage and start focusing on everything else in the game.

 

The 1CC was, for me, just challenging enough that it felt like it was within reach; it was easy to see progress from the early days of just indiscriminately blasting my way through the game, to picking a route that enabled me to score a bit more and get over the first extend, to finally getting the 1CC. After that, the scoring mechanics are such that you can engage with them as much as you feel comfortable doing - the route I took didn't need much tweaking to give me a couple of places where I could time my Power Up to end at just the right time to get the meter pretty much full up again, and it was only at that point I started looking into the other shot types to fill the meter quicker. 

 

Literally 1CC'd the whole game with just the laser to begin with. There's depth available and you can chip away at it at the points you feel comfortable doing so - you take on a little more risk going for the scoring but it doesn't go from "surviving is easy" to "oh god everything is horrible" like some other games, which was one of the things that kept me playing. I never did hit my 400mil target but got pretty close, and must get around to uploading that run as it'll be a good example of how you don't have to go all-out for scoring and minmax your way through the game to still have some good results.

 

Final boss is a bit of an arse mind.

 

On 15/12/2022 at 16:35, MagicalDrop said:

I see Star Hunter DX is down to £3 on Switch. Anyone on here played it? Thoughts?

 

At that price it's pretty much essential. Great risk/reward mechanics, loads of medals to collect which get bigger the better you're doing, etc etc. I much preferred it to Space Moth, but you really can't go wrong with either/both of the 1CC Games offerings.

[ImmaculateClump]

42 minutes ago, Klatrymadon said:

I dunno, the importance of low latency might be overstated at times, but it's certainly detrimental when you can feel a definite lag.

 

Yeah, I think that's the point, everyone has their own threshold of what's playable, or even noticeable.

 

I'm a bit of a lag queen myself, it's part of the reason I prefer to play on PC. I make sure my setup is nippy, playing with a low lag monitor, using the brook ufb pcb in my sticks, vsync off, ultra low latency mode on. I made sure I was shaving off ms of lag wherever I can as it can stack up. If you have a laggy game, that extra from your setup can tip things over the edge and bump up the latency to something you're not happy with.

 

I don't think new players who prefer playing on the switch should be put off by 6 frames of lag though.

Akai Katana might be caves easiest game for survival. The bullets are slow and the patterns are sparse, the game gives you lots of time to react and plan your movement. I can't see it making too much of a difference.

[ImmaculateClump]

 

Not much info there, but better than silence.

[spatular]

yeah about the lag thing, i think it's important people are measuring it and highlighting it as a potential problem but also agree it's a bit overblown sometimes. most of the times i don't notice any lag, but if it's bad it can definitely ruin games like these.

 

also akai katana arrived, might not get time to play it till xmas holidays.

 

[ImmaculateClump]

Ooft! The reason the eu and us digital versions of akai katana were delayed on consoles.

 

 

Sick grabbers must hang!

Not you, spatular

[Yasawas]

On 15/12/2022 at 19:37, ImmaculateClump said:

Got an Akai Katana Shin clear tonight. The score wasn't too hot as I was playing pretty cautiously, but I'll try for something better next time.

Replays work I wasn't expecting that!

 

 

"JayLab" on one of the shmup discords wrote some good tips. I've never seen the systems described so concisely and clearly.

Turns out I had been playing it right, which was a relief

"For new guys, the basic gameplay loop in shin is something like this:

You have 2 resources, steel orbs and energy. You need energy for phantom mode, orbs for making katanas.

Stockpile orbs by pointblanking enemies with shot, gain energy by pointblanking enemies with focus

Enter phantom mode and use focus shot to fire off the steel orbs & forge katanas (based on # of enemies and bullets hit by the orbs)

Then, fire the katanas to cancel bullets & damage enemies, which generates score items.

 

Things to know:

Value of score items depletes very quickly so you need to collect them fast (ie. Follow the katanas in)

When in phantom mode enemies generate revenge bullets when destroyed by focus shot, which is good for setting up big katana cancels

You can angle the katanas with your movement.

Theres also a ddp-esque chain counter that you increment by hitting stuff with your wide shot. This is a score multiplier.

Most common ship choice is type-b (kikyou & botan) due to high rate of item generation while pointblanking"

 

I'd add to that, when you're in guy mode (phantom), the red lasers can't hurt you, and also I think you get autobomb when in guy mode.

Game is so much fun. I wish I knew my score on 360 as I don't know whether I've beaten it or not

Thanks for this, my Switch version arrived the other day and I could swear there’s no tutorial in it. It does take the shine off a nice package to present it with no description of what makes the three modes different or how the scoring works. Argh!

 

The official site does try to explain to be fair but the translation is just ever so slightly wooden that it’s not entirely convincing…

[PikaStu]

Sol Cresta is on sale at under £25.

 

I’ve slagged off the shimmering visuals in the past, but I quite enjoyed the gameplay in the demo. 
 

So, what’s everyone’s opinion on the game, and should I go Switch or PS4? 

[geldra]

Usual conclusions are that PS versions are slightly better in terms of input lag.  Dunno about Sol Cresta specifically. 
 

But if you don’t really care and want to the portable flexibility of the Switch….

 

(the majority of my shmups are on Switch except for the PS exclusives.  Speaking of which…)

 

Has anyone bought Sorcer Striker from the JPN PSN?  How did you do it? Where’s the easiest place to buy PSN credit etc etc?

 

Edit: Was Hazelnut Hex well regarded?  Currently £2.09 on Switch. 

[ImmaculateClump]

Yeah, Hazelnut Hex is great fun, and looks and sounds gorgeous.
Has a fun hidden charge shot scoring mechanic that it doesn't really tell you about, it lets you find it for yourself, so make sure you're using that from the off.

 

Let go of fire for a little while and you'll hear a sound cue when it's ready, then you shoot and the bigger shot goes through enemies and you build up a multiplier for every enemy you kill, and it also cancels any bullets it goes through, can be really useful during boss fights for tricky patterns.

 

Bombing when there are loads of bullets on screen is good for scoring as well, save those for the bosses if you can and use them during their dense patterns.

 

You can change the difficulty from "normal" to "moderate" in the options, that's the hard mode. I think the dev was self effacing, and didn't want to call it hard since he considered that he'd made a more accessible, casual shmup, but, especially if you're playing for score, that mode isn't fucking around at times! Took me a while to clear it.

 

Also on sale on pc - https://chunderfins.itch.io/hazelnut-hex

Good guy dev put the pc version up on archive.org for people that can't afford it - https://archive.org/details/hazelnut_hex_1_0_0

He's a class act.

 

1 hour ago, geldra said:

Has anyone bought Sorcer Striker from the JPN PSN?  How did you do it? Where’s the easiest place to buy PSN credit etc etc?

 

Yeah, I bought Sorcer Striker. It's bloody hard mind. That final boss rush stage kicked my arse so hard.

 

https://store.playstation.com/ja-jp/product/JP0092-CUSA09063_00-MAHOUDAISAKUSPS4

 

I got the psn cards from play-asia. It was instant and painless - https://www.play-asia.com/search/PSN+Card+YEN#fc=prc:1.1642181513,m:5

 

3 hours ago, Yasawas said:

It does take the shine off a nice package to present it with no description of what makes the three modes different or how the scoring works. Argh!

 

Yes, it's very weird, considering it's a straight port of the 360 version of Akai Katana and that had tutorials. It's a head scratcher why they removed them.

This guy has them uploaded to his youtube if you want to take a look.

 

 

 

@PikaStu I wrote a beefy post about Sol Cresta in the relevant thread -

 

Go with the ps4 if you don't play on pc. The switch version was definitely the runt of the litter. This should be timestamped, but skip to 11:26 if not.

 

 

[ImmaculateClump]

Rolling Gunner out now on steam. I wouldn't bother with the DLC, personally.

 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1456470/Rolling_Gunner/

[immortaljellyfish]

1 hour ago, ImmaculateClump said:

Rolling Gunner out now on steam. I wouldn't bother with the DLC, personally.

 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1456470/Rolling_Gunner/

 

I wouldn't bother without the DLC myself! It adds so much imo. But each to their own!

[ImmaculateClump]

I think it made you too overpowered.
Easy games can still be great fun so long as the scoring is interesting and dynamic, but I don't think they succeeded in that regard. It turned the game into a bit of a snoozefest.

 

Pushing for score and having medals flying all over the screen, the game would slowdown way too much, it just turned everything into a slow, treacly slog, though I think that got patched.

 

Having the option for twin stick controls is fine, but messing up controls when playing it with one stick was a big mistake.
I can remember being so disappointed with the dlc and only playing that mode a couple of times.

 

You've got me wanting to try it again now though, just to make sure I definitely don't like it! I'll give it another try some time.

[immortaljellyfish]

I don't know whether it makes any difference that I never played it on PC, having picked it up for the first time on PS5? Well, PS4, but played on a PS5. Have just bought the PC version so hopefully that don't go scutter my shit!

[ImmaculateClump]

You'll have gotten the patched up version that fixed all the unintended slowdown right off the bat with the ps4 release, so that would definitely have been a much better first impression of that mode.
It took two patches on pc before they figured out what was causing the issue for us guinea pigs. I think I played that mode after the first patch when it was half fixed and found it lacking and boring still, but I think I'd written it off by the time it was fully fixed. I'll definitely give it another try in the future.

 

New video from the Rolling Gunner devs next game Elementaler Elexfalter

 

 

Mark's asking what people's favourite shmups of 2022 were if you want to add your list.

 

https://forms.gle/vNCHBtjP8ZxhFv4U7

 

You have to put them in order best at the top and it has to be new games that were released this year, not re-released like Akai Katana.

 

I went with

 

Like Dreamer
Gunvein

Z-Warp
Dead End City
Tukiyono

 

Steam page for Cotton Rock n Roll is up - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1364760/COTTOn_RocknRoll_SUPERLATIVE_NIGHT_DREAMS/

[immortaljellyfish]

43 minutes ago, ImmaculateClump said:

You'll have gotten the patched up version that fixed all the unintended slowdown right off the bat with the ps4 release, so that would definitely have been a much better first impression of that mode.
It took two patches on pc before they figured out what was causing the issue for us guinea pigs. I think I played that mode after the first patch when it was half fixed and found it lacking and boring still, but I think I'd written it off by the time it was fully fixed. I'll definitely give it another try in the future.

 

New video from the Rolling Gunner devs next game Elementaler Elexfalter

 

 

Mark's asking what people's favourite shmups of 2022 were if you want to add your list.

 

https://forms.gle/vNCHBtjP8ZxhFv4U7

 

You have to put them in order best at the top and it has to be new games that were released this year, not re-released like Akai Katana.

 

I went with

 

Like Dreamer
Gunvein

Z-Warp
Dead End City
Tukiyono

 

Steam page for Cotton Rock n Roll is up - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1364760/COTTOn_RocknRoll_SUPERLATIVE_NIGHT_DREAMS/

 

Mate, you're pretty much my best source for shmup news at this point. Should we ever encounter one another in the physical realm, I'll buy you a drink for sure!

[ImmaculateClump]

Haha! Thanks man

Some really nice friendly people here and it's always fun for me to share the good news.

This site doesn't have a bad search function neither, it's come in handy more than a few times when I've forgotten a game or needed to look something up.

 

The M2 christmas stream will be live at 10am in the UK tomorrow morning.

New article here about Aleste Branch here. Sounds like they're not too far off - https://www.timeextension.com/features/we-go-hands-on-with-m2s-aleste-branch-coming-to-a-console-near-you-soon

 

 

[englishbob]

Got my physical Japanese copy of Akai Katana Shin through today. I'm going to have to look online on how to play this again, I can't remember. There is absolutely nothing in the box whatsoever and there is nothing in the menus to tell you how to play the game - terrible really for new players, it's no surprise it's a dead genre