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I watched it without much sound so wasn't influenced much by the commentary - my initial reaction is Reyes was robbed.

 

Takedowns carry a totally disproportionate scoring influence, and not all take downs are created equal. Jones' were the slightest ones going and he never held Reyes down or established ground position. 

 

Very impressed with Reyes, he made Jones look average for much of the fight.

 

It was a close fight, I can see how 48-47 may happen either way, but especially for Jones if you add a lot more weight than the takedowns deserve. Don't have a clue what the judge who went 49-46 was watching. 

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Reyes did what Smith said he would do - that’s put constant pressure on and let it fly. I thought he did well and wasn’t surprised by the split but was surprised Jones got the nudge. The 49 judge was mental. 

 

I think if Reyes cardio was just a tad better, he would have had a stronger round 3 and sealed it. 

 

@skittles what app is that you posted the screen shot from?

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I find it hard to make any sort of case for a Jones win. He was picked apart at times early on and even when Reyes tired he still faced nothing more than some poor takedown attempts. 

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Jones was knocked down for the 1st time in his career. What an insane stat that is and shows what a fighter he is. I ha ent been this upset at a title decision since shogun v machida 1st fight.

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That knock down was really a chest punch while on one leg rather than being rocked (but did also get rocked in that first round) but it sure was a good way to light the excitement for the fight at the start. 

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It was a close one like the Santos fight. I could see 48-47 either way. Someone is going to really beat the shit out of Jones sooner or later. He has looked rather human since the picogram stuff. He looks like Roy Jones Jnr after the 1st Tarver fight. He doesn't look unbeatable anymore.

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On 05/02/2020 at 23:04, schmojo said:

Congrats from a professional point of view! 

 

But man, that guy's gonna be a pub quiz question one day.

 

:lol: That's so true. He's never been as active as he could have been. His skill set is pretty awesome, though. Want to see him get back in contention.

 

12 hours ago, McFly said:

I have to disagree Skittles. I had it 3 -2 Reyes, first 3 rounds were pretty clear for Reyes i thought but he gave away the 5th for sure. My big bugbear tho is if takedowns were so pivital to the judges how didnt Latifi not beat Lewis when he multiple completed takedowns and top control yet Jones barely completed a takedown? The judges were horrendous either way. 


It's that third round is the questionable one. Could see it either way. 

 

10 hours ago, Gotters said:

I watched it without much sound so wasn't influenced much by the commentary - my initial reaction is Reyes was robbed.

 

Takedowns carry a totally disproportionate scoring influence, and not all take downs are created equal. Jones' were the slightest ones going and he never held Reyes down or established ground position. 

 

Very impressed with Reyes, he made Jones look average for much of the fight.

 

It was a close fight, I can see how 48-47 may happen either way, but especially for Jones if you add a lot more weight than the takedowns deserve. Don't have a clue what the judge who went 49-46 was watching. 

 

Judging needs sorted. They all need to have the sam criteria at least. We've heard judges say odd things like "leg kicks don't win fights" etc, so there needs to be an inclusive scoring system that means all judges are looking for the same things. You're right about takedowns. They mean very little if the opponent pops back up or avoids damage. 

 

5 hours ago, MattKB said:

Reyes did what Smith said he would do - that’s put constant pressure on and let it fly. I thought he did well and wasn’t surprised by the split but was surprised Jones got the nudge. The 49 judge was mental. 


The 49 judge was indeed, mental. He did great, though. 

 

2 hours ago, Orion said:

It was a close one like the Santos fight. I could see 48-47 either way. Someone is going to really beat the shit out of Jones sooner or later. He has looked rather human since the picogram stuff. He looks like Roy Jones Jnr after the 1st Tarver fight. He doesn't look unbeatable anymore.


I 100% agree with this. I think you're right, too. He's going to get the piss beaten out of him soon. I think this talk of heavyweight could be the nail in the coffin for Jones if he's not smart about it. Given his resume, something's off in his last few fights. Could be the picogram stuff, could be a mental thing. Could be mileage or concealed injuries, but whatever it is, you're bang on. He doesn't look unbeatable. I kind of want the DC trilogy at HW now. 

Adesanya might actually have a good shot at Jones if it were to happen. Everyone jumped on Gus for his 'running' from Jones. Jones was literally Overeeming his way away from Reyes last night. His defense seemed off. Great fight though. Deserves a rematch. 

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9 hours ago, MattKB said:

Reyes did what Smith said he would do - that’s put constant pressure on and let it fly. I thought he did well and wasn’t surprised by the split but was surprised Jones got the nudge. The 49 judge was mental. 

 

I think if Reyes cardio was just a tad better, he would have had a stronger round 3 and sealed it. 

 

@skittles what app is that you posted the screen shot from?

Verdict app. You make pics pre event and then score the rounds during. The scores are the average across the users I think. 

 

Love what they're doing and reckon they will eventually get bought by UFC. One can hope anyway.

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Watched it this morning. What a load of shit the judging for that main event was. The only consolation I have at the moment is that Jones' greed won't let him retire on top, so he will lose at some point. Reyes was brilliant and showed that the Santos and Gus fights weren't as close as they seemed - I thought they could have beaten Jones,  but Dom should have. Bollocks. 

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Reyes made Jones look very hittable - once a fighter starts to rely on their granite chin and determination things get a bit bumpy for them - for all the fact I didn't like the judging you can never doubt Jones' chin or will to win, he may not be everybody's favourite but can't doubt his champion spirit in the face of adversity. 

 

MMA judging has always been opaque, Octagon control being an odd one. So Jones was going forward a lot of the fight but getting hit more than he was landing in doing so - some judges seem to like this face first forward movement and see it as aggression. 

 

It's always going to be more complicated than just counting strikes with such a complex sport, does an oblique kick that really does damage score as highly as a big crisp calf/thigh kick ? How do you score attempted but failed submissions that get close ?

 

Its difficult but every year we see these sort of fights and I'd like to see some more clarity in the guidelines.

 

There you go @Kebabilicious, future video idea, what would a better/clearer scoring system look like ?

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I had Jones winning, though his formula could use some revision.  He can't afford to spend the first two rounds taking hits and working the opponent out (a la Fedor/Silva) if he's just going to be taking harder and harder hits against young fighters.

 

You could tell he'd taken some damage when he threw in some fairly tame TD attempts later on. Imagine if he'd aggressively gone after the grappling early on? Like the hungry, young Jones.

 

Just like I didn't think Santos or Smith are as good as Jones, I don't think Reyes is either, but he makes a case for being at the top if Jones migrates to HW. Which he really should soon, if he wants the biggest money fights without some LHW ruining his earning potential.

 

I thought Latifi got robbed too, though Lewis was more fun to watch than usual.

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some really good points about scoring in MMA on the Athletic today, advocating open scoring as the rounds pass by, and why taking the system from boxing was stupid in the first place

 

spoiler for length

 

Spoiler

Late Saturday night, Max Holloway posed a simple question. With the fight community clawing at each other’s collective throat over the scoring of UFC 247’s main event between light heavyweight champion Jon Jones and Dominick Reyes, the former UFC featherweight king asked his nearly 400,000 Twitter followers to explain why mixed martial arts is one of the only major sports in the world in which the score of the contest is hidden from view until the result has already been decided. What would be the harm, Holloway wondered, if judges showed their scores after each round, if only so everyone involved knew exactly where they stood?

Holloway wasn’t alone either. By the time Sunday morning rolled around, several figures from within the community had taken to social media with renewed calls for open scoring.

I think open scoring would be a great addition to MMA. Just like other sports, they know how much they’re down by and know what they need to do to win

“It’s ridiculous that fighters and coaches and corners can’t make adjustments because you don’t really know what the score is,” MMA coach Din Thomas told The Athletic on Sunday. “That would be incredibly valuable because a lot of times, during the heat of a fight, fighters do not know where they’re at. They don’t. Sometimes they come back and they think that they’re losing. Sometimes they come back and they think that they’re winning. But if I absolutely had concrete information knowing where you are in the fight, the burden would totally be on the fighter — and he can’t say he didn’t know, because it’s right up there on the scoreboard.

“What other sport do you not know the result or the score going into the next round? It’s stupid.”

Open scoring and its merits are discussions that pop up seemingly every time we have a controversial decision in a UFC championship fight.

But Saturday night in Houston was a special case. And not just with Jones vs. Reyes.

One needs to only take a glance at Joe Soliz, the Houston-based judge who had himself an evening for the ages. Soliz hadn’t overseen a UFC event since 2017, yet somehow he landed the most important assignment of UFC 247. The three fights he scored? Jones vs. Reyes, Andre Ewell vs. Jonathan Martinez, and Trevin Giles vs. James Krause. Somehow, impressively, he submitted nonsensical scorecards for all three. In Jones-Reyes, Soliz was the lone 49-46 score in favor of Jones, the same score that sent the MMA world into a tizzy and that UFC President Dana White rightly called “insane.” In Ewell-Martinez, Soliz was the 30-27 Ewell scorecard that prompted mass confusion. And then, in his pièce de résistance — for Giles-Krause — Soliz offered a 29-28 scorecard in favor of Giles, in which he implausibly gave Giles the first round.

The same first round that saw Krause nearly submit Giles approximately 30 times and set up base camp on Giles’ back. That is stunning, aggressive incompetence. And again, that was just Soliz’s night. There were plenty of other doozies one could point to from the Texas officials at UFC 247.

That’s the reason open scoring comes up after a night like Saturday, because it takes a night like Saturday to egregiously expose the warts in a flawed system that still works more often than not.

So let’s do it, folks. Let’s have an open and honest discussion about whether there is a better way, because at this point we’re just collectively banging our heads into the wall every time there’s another frustrating night like UFC 247, where legacies are impacted for no good reason other a devout adherence to an old, outdated model of thinking.

Whenever the topic of open scoring is broached, there are three main criticisms guaranteed to arise: 1) If the fighter who’s ahead knows for a fact that he’s ahead, he may stop engaging and try to coast to the end; 2) it could lead to dangerous situations for judges who are scoring bouts against a popular hometown fighter; and 3) it kills any suspense for the official reading of decisions.

Argument No. 1 is the most common refrain, with critics of open scoring often pointing to the mishaps that have arisen in our sister sport, boxing, under an open scoring system.

But here’s what that argument fails to recognize: MMA isn’t boxing.

The reason we’re even in this mess is because our sport lifted a judging model designed for boxing and tried to square-peg-round-hole it into MMA. Fights in our world are much shorter and less segmented — either three five-minute rounds or five five-minute rounds — and certainly not 12 three-minute-round affairs like in championship boxing. In the case of the latter, open scoring can — and will — lead to situations in which a pugilist is up early by a margin of five or six rounds to zero, and can then comfortably coast to the finish line for another six rounds without stressing or engaging.

But that’s not the case in MMA, where the margin for error is so much smaller, and the variables and weapons in play at all times are so abundantly plentiful. Trying to coast against an ultra-motivated, back-against-the-wall mixed martial artist who has five full minutes and an absurd array of punches, kicks, knees, elbows, takedowns and everything else at his disposal is a completely different beast than trying to stay behind one’s jab and dance around the ring for three minutes at a time.

With just one round to make up the difference — or two in an MMA championship fight — and no doubt in the losing fighter’s mind about what needs to be done, you’d better believe that losing fighter would be doing everything in his power to avoid having his paycheck cut in half.

“I do know this: If you’ve got a lead on me and you’re trying to avoid fighting me, I’m coming after your ass,” said Thomas, whose pro career stretched from 1998 to 2013.

“It changes the game. If the guy who’s (losing) needs to go, ‘I need a knockout, I have to get a knockout,’ and if he doesn’t get it, and he lets the guy coast on him? Then he’s a bitch. Because for me, I feel like this: If I’m fighting a guy, it’s a three-round fight, he won two rounds and I’m going into the last round, and he tries to coast on me? I’m going after that motherfucker. You can’t coast on a guy if the other guy’s coming at you because he knows he’s losing. When nobody really knows (the score), you get both guys just kind of like, ‘I don’t know, I don’t know’ — because a lot of times fighters don’t know where they’re at in the fight. Sometimes they think they’re winning; sometimes they think they’re losing when they don’t know. If they knew, then they could make proper adjustments. The corner could make proper adjustments.”

“You take the guesswork out of things,” agreed UFC bantamweight contender Aljamain Sterling. “When your corner says, ‘I think we’re up two rounds, keep doing what you’re doing,’ you see how some fighters take their foot off the gas, just to find out their coaches were wrong and they lost one or both of those first two rounds.”

Sterling mentioned his battles with Raphael Assuncao and Bryan Caraways as textbook examples of fights he would’ve handled differently had he been aware of the scorecards in real-time. Both bouts ended up being split-decision losses, and they greatly delayed his title chase.

“In football, baseball, basketball, soccer, tennis and I believe even point fighting martial arts like karate, everyone knows and sees what the scores are! Why should MMA be any different?” Sterling wondered.

Boxing is not MMA, and MMA is not boxing. It’s bizarre we still compare ourselves in this way. The problems in one sport don’t necessarily have to translate into problems in the other.

Common argument No. 2 against open scoring is it could lead to potentially dangerous situations for judges. And that is certainly a valid point — but it also opens up a whole different conversation about whether we’re putting our judges in the best positions to succeed in the first place.

Because, sure, let’s imagine a scenario in which a local fighter is announced over the arena loudspeaker as being down three rounds to zero in the midst of a competitive championship fight. That environment may turn hostile for the offending judges, whether through boos or through a highly partisan, particularly lathered up crowd using their concession purchases as projectiles.

But that’s why you don’t need judges in the arena anyway.

Anyone who’s sat cageside will tell you it’s one of the worst views in the house. Between the fence wall and the posts that hold the octagon together, entire sections of the fighting arena are obscured from view. Not only that, but often when the action hits the mat, depending on your angle, it can be almost impossible to discern what exactly is going on.

So why not take the judges out of the arena entirely? Position them instead in closed-off remote rooms, separate from one another, with no access to commentary audio, and a plethora of monitors available for judges to see every possible angle of the cage.

Realistically, we should be doing this anyway. No outside pressure. No crowd noise to sway their human impulses. They’re not seeing what their fellow judges are scoring, and they’re not hearing the crowd’s reaction to said scores. They have one job to do, and simply put, they’re placed in the best possible position to do that job effectively, without any chance of outside influences impacting their decision-making process.

As for common argument No. 3, the idea that open scoring would ruin the suspense of the result — um, how is that even a real argument?

This is a sport, not the Oscars.

The suspense comes from the journey, not the destination. If Game 7 of the NBA Finals was played without a visible scoreboard, and the Los Angeles Lakers and the Milwaukee Bucks weren’t sure if they were winning or losing until the Finals was over, sure, I guess that’d be more dramatic. But it’d also be ridiculous.

Instead, imagine the electricity and tension that would’ve been running through the air in Toyota Center on Saturday heading into that fifth round with Jones and Reyes, with everyone knowing for a fact that the winner of that fifth round was going to leave Houston with the belt.

You want drama? That’s the definition of drama.

“When you know you’re behind and running out of time, you begin the mental battle of do I push harder or fold and look for a way out,” Sterling said. “You want to see urgency? You want to see fighters (go) for it? Let them physically see that they’re down, and we’ll see who is ready to push for a finish or make a statement after being 1-1 or 2-2 going into that final round. There’s no more guessing. At this point, you know what’s up.”

“That would be magnificent,” said Thomas, simply. “I would love to watch that.

“You couldn’t avoid that. You’d have to fight hard.”

In the end, yes, all of this is just a pipe dream. The mechanics of the sport and the red tape that’d be involved don’t exactly lend themselves to drastic, sweeping changes being enacted after one bad night. But those bad nights — nights such as Saturday — will still always be a reminder that we’re working with an imperfect system, a system that wasn’t specifically designed for us. For MMA.

And the only way it’s ever going to improve is if we’re willing to try something new.

 

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Open scoring makes perfect sense. If anything, over time it will make corners much more dynamic and adaptive, as they can properly coach their fighter between rounds instead of going on feel alone.
 

Generally they already have a pretty fair idea of how fights are going, and in lopsided fights it of course won’t make much difference, but close calls will allow corners to much better implement alternate strategies that will better serve their fighter rather than second-guessing what Bruce Buffer might soon announce.

 

Think you’d see a switch in crowd engagement too, which adds positive pressure to judges. It’s the equivalent of showing your workings; if I was scoring, knowing that score was about to be revealed, I’d be damned focused on the fight, not looking elsewhere as Rogan claimed happened on the weekend.

 

They’d still be crazy scorecards, but at least with those being revealed during the fight, the fighters would not be under any illusion of how a fight was being scored and have more of an opportunity to adjust.

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Its certainly a good idea and one id back but i dunno how ut would implemented. Can the UFC just say its happening or do we need commissipns to do it? Which i cant see happening.

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10 hours ago, Gotters said:

There you go @Kebabilicious, future video idea, what would a better/clearer scoring system look like ?

 

98755289_ScreenShot2020-02-10at17_16_32.png.2c01fa750f1c67a5a6825698164d330d.png

;)

 

 

7 hours ago, Gotters said:

some really good points about scoring in MMA on the Athletic today, advocating open scoring as the rounds pass by, and why taking the system from boxing was stupid in the first place

 

spoiler for length

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Late Saturday night, Max Holloway posed a simple question. With the fight community clawing at each other’s collective throat over the scoring of UFC 247’s main event between light heavyweight champion Jon Jones and Dominick Reyes, the former UFC featherweight king asked his nearly 400,000 Twitter followers to explain why mixed martial arts is one of the only major sports in the world in which the score of the contest is hidden from view until the result has already been decided. What would be the harm, Holloway wondered, if judges showed their scores after each round, if only so everyone involved knew exactly where they stood?

Holloway wasn’t alone either. By the time Sunday morning rolled around, several figures from within the community had taken to social media with renewed calls for open scoring.

I think open scoring would be a great addition to MMA. Just like other sports, they know how much they’re down by and know what they need to do to win

“It’s ridiculous that fighters and coaches and corners can’t make adjustments because you don’t really know what the score is,” MMA coach Din Thomas told The Athletic on Sunday. “That would be incredibly valuable because a lot of times, during the heat of a fight, fighters do not know where they’re at. They don’t. Sometimes they come back and they think that they’re losing. Sometimes they come back and they think that they’re winning. But if I absolutely had concrete information knowing where you are in the fight, the burden would totally be on the fighter — and he can’t say he didn’t know, because it’s right up there on the scoreboard.

“What other sport do you not know the result or the score going into the next round? It’s stupid.”

Open scoring and its merits are discussions that pop up seemingly every time we have a controversial decision in a UFC championship fight.

But Saturday night in Houston was a special case. And not just with Jones vs. Reyes.

One needs to only take a glance at Joe Soliz, the Houston-based judge who had himself an evening for the ages. Soliz hadn’t overseen a UFC event since 2017, yet somehow he landed the most important assignment of UFC 247. The three fights he scored? Jones vs. Reyes, Andre Ewell vs. Jonathan Martinez, and Trevin Giles vs. James Krause. Somehow, impressively, he submitted nonsensical scorecards for all three. In Jones-Reyes, Soliz was the lone 49-46 score in favor of Jones, the same score that sent the MMA world into a tizzy and that UFC President Dana White rightly called “insane.” In Ewell-Martinez, Soliz was the 30-27 Ewell scorecard that prompted mass confusion. And then, in his pièce de résistance — for Giles-Krause — Soliz offered a 29-28 scorecard in favor of Giles, in which he implausibly gave Giles the first round.

The same first round that saw Krause nearly submit Giles approximately 30 times and set up base camp on Giles’ back. That is stunning, aggressive incompetence. And again, that was just Soliz’s night. There were plenty of other doozies one could point to from the Texas officials at UFC 247.

That’s the reason open scoring comes up after a night like Saturday, because it takes a night like Saturday to egregiously expose the warts in a flawed system that still works more often than not.

So let’s do it, folks. Let’s have an open and honest discussion about whether there is a better way, because at this point we’re just collectively banging our heads into the wall every time there’s another frustrating night like UFC 247, where legacies are impacted for no good reason other a devout adherence to an old, outdated model of thinking.

Whenever the topic of open scoring is broached, there are three main criticisms guaranteed to arise: 1) If the fighter who’s ahead knows for a fact that he’s ahead, he may stop engaging and try to coast to the end; 2) it could lead to dangerous situations for judges who are scoring bouts against a popular hometown fighter; and 3) it kills any suspense for the official reading of decisions.

Argument No. 1 is the most common refrain, with critics of open scoring often pointing to the mishaps that have arisen in our sister sport, boxing, under an open scoring system.

But here’s what that argument fails to recognize: MMA isn’t boxing.

The reason we’re even in this mess is because our sport lifted a judging model designed for boxing and tried to square-peg-round-hole it into MMA. Fights in our world are much shorter and less segmented — either three five-minute rounds or five five-minute rounds — and certainly not 12 three-minute-round affairs like in championship boxing. In the case of the latter, open scoring can — and will — lead to situations in which a pugilist is up early by a margin of five or six rounds to zero, and can then comfortably coast to the finish line for another six rounds without stressing or engaging.

But that’s not the case in MMA, where the margin for error is so much smaller, and the variables and weapons in play at all times are so abundantly plentiful. Trying to coast against an ultra-motivated, back-against-the-wall mixed martial artist who has five full minutes and an absurd array of punches, kicks, knees, elbows, takedowns and everything else at his disposal is a completely different beast than trying to stay behind one’s jab and dance around the ring for three minutes at a time.

With just one round to make up the difference — or two in an MMA championship fight — and no doubt in the losing fighter’s mind about what needs to be done, you’d better believe that losing fighter would be doing everything in his power to avoid having his paycheck cut in half.

“I do know this: If you’ve got a lead on me and you’re trying to avoid fighting me, I’m coming after your ass,” said Thomas, whose pro career stretched from 1998 to 2013.

“It changes the game. If the guy who’s (losing) needs to go, ‘I need a knockout, I have to get a knockout,’ and if he doesn’t get it, and he lets the guy coast on him? Then he’s a bitch. Because for me, I feel like this: If I’m fighting a guy, it’s a three-round fight, he won two rounds and I’m going into the last round, and he tries to coast on me? I’m going after that motherfucker. You can’t coast on a guy if the other guy’s coming at you because he knows he’s losing. When nobody really knows (the score), you get both guys just kind of like, ‘I don’t know, I don’t know’ — because a lot of times fighters don’t know where they’re at in the fight. Sometimes they think they’re winning; sometimes they think they’re losing when they don’t know. If they knew, then they could make proper adjustments. The corner could make proper adjustments.”

“You take the guesswork out of things,” agreed UFC bantamweight contender Aljamain Sterling. “When your corner says, ‘I think we’re up two rounds, keep doing what you’re doing,’ you see how some fighters take their foot off the gas, just to find out their coaches were wrong and they lost one or both of those first two rounds.”

Sterling mentioned his battles with Raphael Assuncao and Bryan Caraways as textbook examples of fights he would’ve handled differently had he been aware of the scorecards in real-time. Both bouts ended up being split-decision losses, and they greatly delayed his title chase.

“In football, baseball, basketball, soccer, tennis and I believe even point fighting martial arts like karate, everyone knows and sees what the scores are! Why should MMA be any different?” Sterling wondered.

Boxing is not MMA, and MMA is not boxing. It’s bizarre we still compare ourselves in this way. The problems in one sport don’t necessarily have to translate into problems in the other.

Common argument No. 2 against open scoring is it could lead to potentially dangerous situations for judges. And that is certainly a valid point — but it also opens up a whole different conversation about whether we’re putting our judges in the best positions to succeed in the first place.

Because, sure, let’s imagine a scenario in which a local fighter is announced over the arena loudspeaker as being down three rounds to zero in the midst of a competitive championship fight. That environment may turn hostile for the offending judges, whether through boos or through a highly partisan, particularly lathered up crowd using their concession purchases as projectiles.

But that’s why you don’t need judges in the arena anyway.

Anyone who’s sat cageside will tell you it’s one of the worst views in the house. Between the fence wall and the posts that hold the octagon together, entire sections of the fighting arena are obscured from view. Not only that, but often when the action hits the mat, depending on your angle, it can be almost impossible to discern what exactly is going on.

So why not take the judges out of the arena entirely? Position them instead in closed-off remote rooms, separate from one another, with no access to commentary audio, and a plethora of monitors available for judges to see every possible angle of the cage.

Realistically, we should be doing this anyway. No outside pressure. No crowd noise to sway their human impulses. They’re not seeing what their fellow judges are scoring, and they’re not hearing the crowd’s reaction to said scores. They have one job to do, and simply put, they’re placed in the best possible position to do that job effectively, without any chance of outside influences impacting their decision-making process.

As for common argument No. 3, the idea that open scoring would ruin the suspense of the result — um, how is that even a real argument?

This is a sport, not the Oscars.

The suspense comes from the journey, not the destination. If Game 7 of the NBA Finals was played without a visible scoreboard, and the Los Angeles Lakers and the Milwaukee Bucks weren’t sure if they were winning or losing until the Finals was over, sure, I guess that’d be more dramatic. But it’d also be ridiculous.

Instead, imagine the electricity and tension that would’ve been running through the air in Toyota Center on Saturday heading into that fifth round with Jones and Reyes, with everyone knowing for a fact that the winner of that fifth round was going to leave Houston with the belt.

You want drama? That’s the definition of drama.

“When you know you’re behind and running out of time, you begin the mental battle of do I push harder or fold and look for a way out,” Sterling said. “You want to see urgency? You want to see fighters (go) for it? Let them physically see that they’re down, and we’ll see who is ready to push for a finish or make a statement after being 1-1 or 2-2 going into that final round. There’s no more guessing. At this point, you know what’s up.”

“That would be magnificent,” said Thomas, simply. “I would love to watch that.

“You couldn’t avoid that. You’d have to fight hard.”

In the end, yes, all of this is just a pipe dream. The mechanics of the sport and the red tape that’d be involved don’t exactly lend themselves to drastic, sweeping changes being enacted after one bad night. But those bad nights — nights such as Saturday — will still always be a reminder that we’re working with an imperfect system, a system that wasn’t specifically designed for us. For MMA.

And the only way it’s ever going to improve is if we’re willing to try something new.

 


This is great. Open scoring would be awesome. 

I am not so sure we see Jones at HW now, though. Or is he more likely to do it? Thoughts?

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2 hours ago, McFly said:

Its certainly a good idea and one id back but i dunno how ut would implemented. Can the UFC just say its happening or do we need commissipns to do it? Which i cant see happening.


Think they’d have to agree... so yeah, probably not going to happen any time soon :(

 

11 minutes ago, Kebabilicious said:

I am not so sure we see Jones at HW now, though. Or is he more likely to do it? Thoughts?

 


Based on his two most recent performances, think Jones would get handled by Stipe. I’m a sucker for the HW champ admittedly, but think he would be too much for Jones.

 

A fight with DC at HW would be very interesting, but think even Jones has said he’d struggle without a long lead-in, and DC, being the wrong side of 40, is unlikely to want to wait when he holds an advantage.

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It makes sense for JJ to go to HW. Everyone at LHW is, relatively a nobody, and getting knocked off by one of those isn't great for his brand or his legacy.

 

At HW, there are big money fights and, if he loses he can blame lack of preparation/the potential 40lb difference, which is the biggest step up in the sport.

 

The only question I have is: does JJ play it slow and safe at LHW because he's protecting his income and record, or has he forgotten how to kill? 

 

I have no interest in a HW fight with DC. Jones is the better fighter, and we know it.

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I don't think this scoring thing will get solved anytime soon - its a weird setup isn't it in the US with the events being run under the auspices of the state athletic commissions, who don't always remain aligned under identical rulesets.

 

The UFC carry clout and can push for things, but its not their call at all, and as the story above shows you can run an event in one location with certain rules/policies, then next week in Nevada it will be different.

 

 

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Well yeah, but UFC always have the option of running fewer events, and bringing less cash into the state. That'll change minds quickly.

 

Similarly, they don't do a ton of Cali events, despite having the fighters and the fanbase, because taxes are much higher there.

 

Though I remember seeing an event in the last year or two where a fighter wasn't aware of the legality of grounded elbows because of the new MMA rules. Total shitshow.

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BJ Penn has had a bad (possibley drunk) car crash recently so it seems. First it was believed that the vehicle flipped and rolled knocking BJ out cold. But his own representative has said this is wrong and the airbag KO'd him.... id not have admitted that :unsure:

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Theres a card tonight with a potentual #1 contender fight at 205lbs with Corey Anderson and Jan Blachowicz. Im not expecting fireworks but you never know with these types of fights. Diego Sanchez is fighting again with his guru by his side also. Theres some good fights on the prelims, and to me this card is backwards, Lando Vanatta and Yancy Medieros, Jim Miller, Tim Means and John Dodson v Nathaniel Wood

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I know he was badly fouled but think Sanchez 'bought' that win saying he couldn't continue after the illegal knee with vision problems - he knew he was losing the decision and it gave him an out, and the opportunity to have at least one more payday (plus I suspect he has a contract with a win bonus in it). It's hard to begrudge him as it was an egregious foul, but I'm not convinced his eyesight was damaged, he was asking the ref for clarification on the rules making me think he knew what he was doing.

 

 

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Jim Miller v Scott Holtzman was a real scrap and got FoTN iirc. 

 

Diego seems to have lost his fire or something he looked like he didnt want to be there or know what to do which is shockingbfor a guy a like him. Hes been fighting in the UFC for 15 years so its not surprising if he has lost a step i suppose.

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1 hour ago, Raoull duke said:

 

 

If this happens I'm done with the sport. 

 

I'd rather see this than a Khabib rematch. The sport's a fucking mess already.

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