Official Mixed Martial Arts Thread

[angel]

3 hours ago, Hellcock said:

Wait. Bisping vs GSP is a non title fight?

 

Of course it is, what makes you say that? Uncle Dana always said GSP gets an instant shot at whatever belt he wants.

[angel]

2 hours ago, glb said:

 

Hopefully it will annoy him enough to prompt a move to LH, and that DC fight that would be like worlds colliding.

 

Romero Rumble / Jon Jones equally epic potential.

 

Belts rendered essentially meaningless this last 12 months. Nunes' was the last defence of any belt, or am I having a senior moment?

 

To me there seems to be 2 trains of thought in modern UFC, the younger fighters who are desperate for the belts, and the older, bigger names who don't care about them any more.  I can see both sides, the power of the belt has diminished for me over the years. There are so many of them now, often quite meaningless like De Randamie, or interim etc that just holding one isnt enough. It doesnt guarantee respect of fandom any more. It's not a hard and fast rule, there's nuance.

 

I would argue Bisping getting the belt absolutely legitimised him as a hall of famer, a master troll and a TV analyst in time. The Diaz brothers know they are never getting a belt ever, or even a shot, but still remain ridiculous draws. Twood has found the belt a poison chalice, it sent Jon Jones crazy and so on. No one cares about Nunes or De Randamie holding belts but everyone loves Joanna Jedzejczyk dominating.  Defintely a weird landscape in 2017.

[McFly]

33 minutes ago, angel said:

 

To me there seems to be 2 trains of thought in modern UFC, the younger fighters who are desperate for the belts, and the older, bigger names who don't care about them any more.  I can see both sides, the power of the belt has diminished for me over the years. There are so many of them now, often quite meaningless like De Randamie, or interim etc that just holding one isnt enough. It doesnt guarantee respect of fandom any more. It's not a hard and fast rule, there's nuance.

 

I would argue Bisping getting the belt absolutely legitimised him as a hall of famer, a master troll and a TV analyst in time. The Diaz brothers know they are never getting a belt ever, or even a shot, but still remain ridiculous draws. Twood has found the belt a poison chalice, it sent Jon Jones crazy and so on. No one cares about Nunes or De Randamie holding belts but everyone loves Joanna Jedzejczyk dominating.  Defintely a weird landscape in 2017.

It is strange for sure.

 

As for Bisping, he's a sure fire HoF for me, he's grown with the sport and holds the most wins in UFC history so for that alone he'll be in.

 

 

[Doomguy]

He should be a hall of famer though the concept still seems strange to me. 

 

GSP and Bisping have trained together and apparently GSP owned him in training. 

 

Woodley is still bitching away. Saying he's not being promoted correctly; nobody cares about his amazing story and him being in films and on tv. 

[schmojo]

6 hours ago, angel said:

The Diaz brothers know they are never getting a belt ever, or even a shot, but still remain ridiculous draws. 

 

Really?

 

Nate's big figures are Conor's, not his. His title fight against Henderson was a freebie on  Fox and did well, but the title was a bigger draw than him.

 

Nick's figures: 950k (St Pierre), 650k (Silva), 400k (Condit)

 

I'll be interested to see what Nate's next figures are like, if he ever fights someone who isn't more of a draw than him again.

 

[McFly]

Dana said that Nate wasnt a needle mover and i think that was accurate, now i would think there would be some residual benefit from the conor fights, maybe 10 - 15% at best but i doubt he could sell a ppv single handedly.

[Yobo Ahoy]

Yep always thought that, can't wait for Nate to smoke all his money away again and come back down to earth with a bump on a FS1 card. 

[Doomguy]

Biggest Needle mover in mma was Kimbo Slice ha. 

 

So much backlash for Bisping atm. I can't imagine the amount of salt rockhold produced after hearing the announcement. 

[Doomguy]

 

Ok. Now this is a good card.

[angel]

7 hours ago, schmojo said:

 

Really?

 

Nate's big figures are Conor's, not his. His title fight against Henderson was a freebie on  Fox and did well, but the title was a bigger draw than him.

 

Nick's figures: 950k (St Pierre), 650k (Silva), 400k (Condit)

 

I'll be interested to see what Nate's next figures are like, if he ever fights someone who isn't more of a draw than him again.

 

 

I think nate's absorbed a lot of "star power" from the 2 Conor fights, he's wildly popular, definitely makes the UFC a lot of money when he fights. He's picky as hell and I agree he used to be Fox level but he's definitely bigger now.

[Orion]

The worry is Nate won't capitalize on the success the Conor fights brought him. He will go back to Stockton, smoke weed and do triathlons till he runs out of money. I'm guessing he made a pile of cash last year too so that might be awhile.

[Yobo Ahoy]

8 hours ago, Stevedave said:

 

Ok. Now this is a good card.

 

 

I love Barboza, really think this could be his year. LW is stupidly stagnant at the mo, seems like the whole division (apart from Ferg/Khabib) has ground to a halt in Conor's absence.

[schmojo]

7 hours ago, angel said:

 

I think nate's absorbed a lot of "star power" from the 2 Conor fights, he's wildly popular, definitely makes the UFC a lot of money when he fights. He's picky as hell and I agree he used to be Fox level but he's definitely bigger now.

 

I hope you're right, but until a PPV he headlines draws a dime it's all just wishful thinking. If anyone thought he could sell 700k+, he'd be getting the crazy paycheck he's no-doubt asking for.

 

Whereas Conor is the guy who came back to beat a bigger fighter and went on to *much* greater heights, Nate is the guy who lost to a smaller guy and then disappeared into obscurity.

 

Unless he decides he wants to fight, Nate's best chance of an MMA legacy is being Conor's go-to dance partner when he doesn't want a relevant fight. He can be Shamrock to Conor's Ortiz. The safety date that he calls at 3am because he's bored.

[McFly]

8 hours ago, Stevedave said:

 

Ok. Now this is a good card.

Aye thatll be decent. Hope Shogun doesnt get beat cos thats a tough fight. Gastellum should manage to take out Vitor if he fights like he did against Kennedy (whom i really like on Hunting Hitler btw)

[Floyd]

Bisping is like the Terminator at this point. How is he still going? I'm looking forward to the GSP fight a lot but Bisping is a difficult fight back for GSP. Also isn't Bisping blind in one eye now? He need a bionic eye just for effect

 

 

[angel]

2 hours ago, schmojo said:

 

I hope you're right, but until a PPV he headlines draws a dime it's all just wishful thinking. If anyone thought he could sell 700k+, he'd be getting the crazy paycheck he's no-doubt asking for.

 

Whereas Conor is the guy who came back to beat a bigger fighter and went on to *much* greater heights, Nate is the guy who lost to a smaller guy and then disappeared into obscurity.

 

Unless he decides he wants to fight, Nate's best chance of an MMA legacy is being Conor's go-to dance partner when he doesn't want a relevant fight. He can be Shamrock to Conor's Ortiz. The safety date that he calls at 3am because he's bored.

 

Yep, Nate might just sit tight for 3 years waiting for that trilogy. The thing that sells with him (for me anyway) is that I find him very charismatic, he has absolutely no filter. Then when he's putting on performances like he did aganst Michael Johnson, flipping him the bird in the middle of the fight...I love seeing all that. Certainly beats the "I'll fight who the UFC want" merchants.

 

I'm predicting that Ferguson pulls of the upset this weekend, and we get Ferguson Mcgregor around September after his wife's given birth.

 

Also totally forgot, Hunt this weekend! All sorts of weird energy surrounding that, seeing as the UFC just filed to dismiss Hunt's lawsuit this week.

[Gotters]

i'm really excited about Ferguson v Khabib - its one of those matchups that you just can't call with any certainty, Ferguson pulling off some crazy kick from distance or odd spinning move wouldn't be a surprise, but neither would him being put on his back immediately and ground into the dust.

 

I don't see a different result in Woodly vs Wonderboy, immediate rematches don't tend to see fighters changing their style a lot or learning new tricks, they just have more experience of each other. I'm taking Woodly to win by KO, which is a shame as don't like him at all.

 

Dad-bod Vitor vs overweight welter Gastallum could be a fun fight.

[schmojo]

I don't want Woodley to win. But if Thompson wins, it runs the risk of a trilogy, so I'm not sure I want that either...

 

Nah, sod it. The first was a draw, if Thompson wins we move forward. Put him in some fun fights, or have him strangled by Maia.

 

I love Khabib as a fighter, but I'm starting to get worried enough that it's a must-see. If I was 100% sure of a Khabib victory, it would be much less fun.

[Corrogate]

Good fights this weekend.

 

Re-watching Woodley Vs. Thompson on YT :|

[angel]

I genuinely have no preference who wins, I like Thompson but Woodley's growing on me. If Thompson wins though....please no trilogy. Booking Maia Masvidal is ridiculous too. I'd like Maia to anaconda Masvidal in one round (who I like, don't get me wrong), come out unscathed, then get a shot at the belt in summer.

[schmojo]

Maia/GSP feels like an interesting matchup. We saw GSP control elite wrestlers, and a couple of high level BJJers in Penn and Serra, but never anyone with Maia's size.

 

I'd basically love to see GSP against more current WWs, if he can hang. It could really revitalise the division if the Bisping fight doesn't fall flat.

 

What's everyone's best case in the Bisping/GSP fight?

 

For me it's a razor thin split decision for Bisping, probably. Keeps GSP relevant, Bisping wins the fight his way, and we don't lose excitement for GSP's WW return.

 

If GSP gets smashed, that takes money off the table. If Bisping gets smashed, he'd possibly retire and GSP might relinquish instead of fighting the monsters.

[angel]

Probably similar, I just hope he's competitive.

[McFly]

If Bisping can keep it vertical he could maybe picK GSP apart, but thats a big "if" really.

 

As for 209, i cant add anything to whats been said total toss up in the co-main and i like both guys lots. Rematchs rarely end up like the first fights so Woodley quick KO or Thompson snipingand evading for 25mins.

[glb]

On 02/03/2017 at 13:54, angel said:

 

To me there seems to be 2 trains of thought in modern UFC, the younger fighters who are desperate for the belts, and the older, bigger names who don't care about them any more.  I can see both sides, the power of the belt has diminished for me over the years. There are so many of them now, often quite meaningless like De Randamie, or interim etc that just holding one isnt enough. It doesnt guarantee respect of fandom any more. It's not a hard and fast rule, there's nuance.

 

I would argue Bisping getting the belt absolutely legitimised him as a hall of famer, a master troll and a TV analyst in time. The Diaz brothers know they are never getting a belt ever, or even a shot, but still remain ridiculous draws. Twood has found the belt a poison chalice, it sent Jon Jones crazy and so on. No one cares about Nunes or De Randamie holding belts but everyone loves Joanna Jedzejczyk dominating.  Defintely a weird landscape in 2017.

 

I think a belt as a certain gravitas but the UFC hasn't treated them with any kind of reverence, plus created log-jams to appease certain individuals, which has left many of the belts in a state of flux. I like McGregor a lot but he's been allowed far too much leeway / played the company like a fiddle. Not defending FW before getting a LW title shot was crazy from a standpoint of building each division's roster. Now there are interim titles purely as a promotional tool. I switched to watching MMA because boxing got so fractured, yet the UFC is heading the same way with multiple champions in the same division.

 

Agree it's a weird landscape, guess we're in a period where the sport is truly finding its feet; does it succeed in reaching the mainstream audience with a number of names or will it always be a niche sport with the occasional crossover name like McGregor or Rousey?

 

[Yobo Ahoy]

58 minutes ago, McFly said:

If Bisping can keep it vertical he could maybe picK GSP apart, but thats a big "if" really.

 

 

I dunno, Bisping is much bigger than GSP and kept Sonnen at bay for 15 mins, he's no chump.

 

[McFly]

Absolutley not a chump, im just going with GSP can take down anyone but Bisping has improved his grappling hugely over the last few years.

[glb]

Reports circling that Khabib was hospitalised before the official weigh-ins (they take place before the 'for-show' televised ones). Question marks over the fight, as is to be expected.

[Orion]

and its now cancelled

[McFly]

Fucking hell. Whats up with him?

[schmojo]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh. 

 

Mother fucker. The AKA curse strikes again.