Official Mixed Martial Arts Thread

[Tourist]

Heavy gloves do reduce the impact of punches - that is why some people argue that boxing is more dangerous because they enable a  more prolonged beating.

[V3zna]

5 hours ago, schmojo said:

 

Totally disagree with the last part. It's big PR exposure, and nobody expects them to make a dent in boxing's GOAT. Any measure of success against him will be lauded. Not to mention getting a UFC PPV into the homes of Floyd fans who've never tried MMA. It's a trojan horse for the other fights on the card.

 

If Mayweather was a killer who would look to KO Conor, then maybe you'd have a point. As it is, it'll either go the distance, or Conor will land a big one. Conor's clearly not going to be the better boxer, but it's nice to be able to say you went the distance with the GOAT. Even if most do.

 

Even if Conor got KOd, they'd still be able to be on chat shows a week later, joking that he was a great lad for even trying it.

I think it'll be really embarrassing. Mayweather is so slick, McGregor will be so far out of his depth he'll land nothing, get jabbed relentlessly and gas long before the end. Freddie Roach said even if he had 5 years he couldn't prepare Conor to be a competitive boxer against someone so elite. 

 

I'd rather watch McGregor fight Nurmagedov in Russia. That would be fascinating. 

 

 

[schmojo]

6 hours ago, dogsout said:

 

The weight of the gloves definitely does affect power. Conor references it himself frequently: "these little 4oz gloves". Have you ever boxed? There's a huge difference between 10oz and 16oz gloves, for instance. 

 

 

That's my point, big gloves don't protect your opponent as people seem to think. I've been hit by 4oz, 10, 18,  20. Bigger gloves rock you more easily. 4oz sting and slap more, but the big gloves will bounce your brain off your skull. 

 

Big gloves are easier to hide behind too, mind. 

 

Don't worry, I'm well aware by now that GOAT stands for something entirely different in our respective vocabularies. 

 

 

[schmojo]

2 hours ago, vezna said:

I think it'll be really embarrassing. Mayweather is so slick, McGregor will be so far out of his depth he'll land nothing, get jabbed relentlessly and gas long before the end. Freddie Roach said even if he had 5 years he couldn't prepare Conor to be a competitive boxer against someone so elite. 

 

I'd rather watch McGregor fight Nurmagedov in Russia. That would be fascinating. 

 

 

 

Conor still wouldn't get hurt, and wouldn't look any worse than most of Mayweather's opponents at least. 

[V3zna]

19 minutes ago, schmojo said:

 

Conor still wouldn't get hurt, and wouldn't look any worse than most of Mayweather's opponents at least. 

I think he would look much worse. Trying to transition to boxing in such a short space of time is impossible. Putting a 0-0 'boxer' in against a 49-0 elite boxer is ludicrous. Hopefully it won't be allowed or someone somewhere will use some common sense. 

 

Lets have mma fighters fight other mma fighters. McGregor vs the winner of Ferguson and Nurmagedov or Aldo coming after him are much better stories. 

 

The UFC of the last few years (Fertitta and WME) have been making some shocking decisions. The common factor appears to be Dana White. 

[schmojo]

Do you see any potential benefit to getting a UFC ppv into some of the many homes who bought the MayPac fight, but have never paid for a ufc ppv? 

 

Even if they paid Floyd 50m, they'd get a profit, and maybe some new fans for even more money in the future.

[dogsout]

1 hour ago, schmojo said:

 

That's my point, big gloves don't protect your opponent as people seem to think. I've been hit by 4oz, 10, 18,  20. Bigger gloves rock you more easily. 4oz sting and slap more, but the big gloves will bounce your brain off your skull. 

 

Big gloves are easier to hide behind too, mind. 

 

Don't worry, I'm well aware by now that GOAT stands for something entirely different in our respective vocabularies. 

 

 

 

As ever, we will have to agree to disagree by the looks of it.

 

When I talk about the GOAT, I consider the quality of opposition, not just who has manufactured the 'best' record. Although he is a tremendously talented boxer, Floyd has diminished his own legacy with his cherry picking. And this is coming from someone that has followed his career since his amateur days. The Floyd that called out a prime Shane Mosley could have gone on to be the GOAT. But at some stage keeping that 0 and making as much money as possible became more important to him than legacy. What would you say is his best win? 

 

Please answer in the boxing thread if you're bored enough to reply. 

[V3zna]

1 hour ago, schmojo said:

Do you see any potential benefit to getting a UFC ppv into some of the many homes who bought the MayPac fight, but have never paid for a ufc ppv? 

 

Even if they paid Floyd 50m, they'd get a profit, and maybe some new fans for even more money in the future.

The UFC crossed into the mainstream long ago. Most fight fans are fight fans. Whether it's boxing, kick boxing, mma etc there's no walls to be broken down any more. Maybe at one time mma was looked down upon but that's not really the case anymore. 

[schmojo]

Anecdotally, I'm still surrounded by more boxing fans than MMA fans. 

 

UFC has managed to hit a million and a half buys this year, but they still have to be curious about the extra million who watched mayweather/alvarez, let alone the extra 3 million who bought Mayweather/Pacquiao. 

 

I think that ufc can do those numbers in the future, but spending 50m to cannibalise some of that market more quickly is just smart business. 

 

It's great hype for both sports when they need it, even if it's not a legit fight. 

[V3zna]

2 minutes ago, schmojo said:

Anecdotally, I'm still surrounded by more boxing fans than MMA fans. 

 

UFC has managed to hit a million and a half buys this year, but they still have to be curious about the extra million who watched mayweather/alvarez, let alone the extra 3 million who bought Mayweather/Pacquiao. 

 

I think that ufc can do those numbers in the future, but spending 50m to cannibalise some of that market more quickly is just smart business. 

 

It's great hype for both sports when they need it, even if it's not a legit fight. 

Your logic is sound but it's possibly not going to be a ppv where mma fights are showcased on the undercard. 

Unless the ppv comes from two venues? The undercard in a venue with the cage, the main event in an arena with a ring? 

 

It's a curio for sure but Mayweather is so elusive in the ring. I fear for McGregor being made to look like the boxing amateur he undoubtedly is. 

 

I'm no fan of Mayweather BTW. He ducked Pacquiao until he was completely shot and his fights are usually pure tedium. Nonetheless I don't think I've ever saw a boxer that is harder to hit. It's incredible. 

[Matt Defis]

In terms of technique and the art of not being hit Mayweather is probably the greatest boxer there has ever been but he's just so god damn boring to watch.

[Gotters]

 

interesting vid & interview about her struggles with weight cut, its more from her side of the story but isn't a total puff piece 

[schmojo]

53 minutes ago, Matt Defis said:

In terms of technique and the art of not being hit Mayweather is probably the greatest boxer there has ever been but he's just so god damn boring to watch.

 

@dogsout This is the Cliff Notes version of why I consider him the GOAT. Padded records will always be a bone of contention in combat sports, but he's cracked the game.

 

That being said, I thought Klitschko had the HW game sewn up too. I still think he had really, it's just hard to care after all that time. 

[schmojo]

Anderson Silva/Brunson announced for 208. Cracking fight to make.

[McFly]

6 hours ago, schmojo said:

 

That's my point, big gloves don't protect your opponent as people seem to think. I've been hit by 4oz, 10, 18,  20. Bigger gloves rock you more easily. 4oz sting and slap more, but the big gloves will bounce your brain off your skull. 

Yeah, im always curious when people say 12oz/16oz boxing gloves are safer for the person being hit than 4oz mma gloves. Gloves are to protect hands not heads, simply put how can being hit by something 4x heavier be better? 

 

[Doomguy]

13 hours ago, dogsout said:

 

The weight of the gloves definitely does affect power. Conor references it himself frequently: "these little 4oz gloves". Have you ever boxed? There's a huge difference between 10oz and 16oz gloves, for instance. 

 

I agree about the gloves. There's only a few guys I can think of who'd keep there KO rate switching from mma to boxing; Belfort, Anderson, Garbrandt.

 

On the occasions it's happened the mma guys get schooled and the opposite when boxers go to mma. You'd think this would all be a mute point by now.

 

@Stevedave I know all of that. Although a big part of the reason the numbers are as they are is most big cards in boxing are dry as hell. Imagine how well a card would sell with a Mayweather fight alongside a big name co-main, for instance. But instead we get shit cards because there's no money spare after they've paid the "A side" his due. Obviously the manufactured hype is hurting the integrity of boxing,  which is one of the reasons why so many boxing fans start watching UFC.

 

I don't know how they can repair the boxing situation in regards to stacking cards. There's like 10 billion belts and they all think they're headliners due to ego. How the bejesus do you fix 30 years of that? 

 

 

 

[dogsout]

3 hours ago, schmojo said:

 

@dogsout This is the Cliff Notes version of why I consider him the GOAT. Padded records will always be a bone of contention in combat sports, but he's cracked the game.

 

That being said, I thought Klitschko had the HW game sewn up too. I still think he had really, it's just hard to care after all that time. 

 

Yeah, and on that basis he's up there for sure. I could list a bunch of guys that were as elusive as him, and a bunch that were as technical, but maybe none that combined it all the way he did. Still, Pernell Whitaker doesn't get mentioned in these types of conversations but he was as gifted as anyone else to lace them up. He fought the best but was the victim of poor decisions in many of his biggest fights. I have more respect for him than I do Floyd because his achievements weren't hollow. So many of the best names on Mayweather's record were essentially beaten at the negotiating table it detracts from his greatness. 

[dogsout]

4 minutes ago, Stevedave said:

I don't know how they can repair the boxing situation in regards to stacking cards. There's like 10 billion belts and they all think they're headliners due to ego. How the bejesus do you fix 30 years of that? 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I think it's too late. Especially when the two shining examples of modern day greatness have both been allowed to manufacture said greatness by forcing opponents to fight at disadvantageous catch-weights, and all kinds of other stipulations. The money really is a double edged sword for the sport. 

 

I'm about as hardcore a boxing fan as you're likely to meet. I've been borderline obsessed with it for the best part of 30 years. Yet in all honesty I prefer to watch a typical UFC card these days.

[Orion]

10 years of Mayweather as the face of boxing did not help things. So many people paid to see him fight and were just turned of the sport from what they saw. I grew up with the Tyson/Holyfield/Lewis/Bowe 90's Heavyweight scene and domestic Benn/Eubank/Watson/Collins battles. Its depressing nowadays watching Golden Boy announce Canelo vs Chavez Jnr at some imaginary new weight class and expecting us all to get excited.

 

Mayweather did'nt start that shit but he perfected it. He was supposed to be promoting his fighter Badou Jack vs DeGale this week but its been all Mayweather vs McGregor talk instead. He has to much of an ego to even promote anyone other than himself properly.

 

For all the moaning people do about how the UFC is run its still noway near the mess boxing finds itself in 2017.

[Gotters]

boxing never though stacked cards like the UFC - I love the shorter run time of a UFC fight and the fact the card is run more in the style of a wrestling one. I was bought up in the era of Hagler, Hearns, Duran (Leonard but I always hated him) and loved their fights but never watched a whole card

 

Dana White was a small time boxing promoter and the genius from him was to learn from everything that blighted boxing, and ensure the setup was such that the organisation was king, and you didn't have to preserve somebodies 0 in the loss column to keep them viable.

[Doomguy]

Man, that weigh in certainly hit the nostalgia spot.

 

I'm wondering (considering BJ is now at Jacksons) if he'll finally go back to his bjj. He's still light years ahead of everyone in that respect yet the last time he used it was against Matt Hughes. Hoping the Jackson influence will could into play here, and BJ can have an Arloski-like resurgence. 

[McFly]

On Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 16:02, Orion said:

 I grew up with the Tyson/Holyfield/Lewis/Bowe 90's Heavyweight scene and domestic Benn/Eubank/Watson/Collins 

Same as me pretty much, though i was a huge fan of Prince Nassem Hamed more than anyone else really.

 

On Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 16:02, Orion said:

 

For all the moaning people do about how the UFC is run its still noway near the mess boxing finds itself in 2017.

Exactly, they do some stupid stuff but im bloody thankful the UFC exists, my life would be horribley empty if it didnt. 

[Doomguy]

33 minutes ago, McFly said:

 

Exactly, they do some stupid stuff but im bloody thankful the UFC exists, my life would be horribley empty if it didnt. 

 

Same. I remember during the time Randy Couture was fighting basically everyone aged 44 you had Mayweather ducking manny and hand picking opponents. Total contrast. That's why despite Dana hating on randy he's one of my favourite fighters. He took on fucking everyone regardless of how his record looked. I can't think of anyone in boxing like that unless you go back like 30 years. They're all fighting cans building records before a payday. zzz....

[McFly]

Dana was on colin cowherds show and Colin brought up the point that MMA fans (and promoters) dont write fighters off if they lose a fight wheras is boxing 1 loss and your career is half way over. But i guess if you hand pick every fight youd better bloody win them all

[Doomguy]

That's true. 

 

Mayweather being all 'I'm the greatest' etc purely down to his record. Does anyone think Joe Calazghe is the greatest middleweight because he didn't lose? no.

 

He fought a TON of cans then an old Roy Jones. Prime Roy Jones would have absolutely beaten the shit out of him but the fight never happened because of record protecting. It's become a nonsense. 

[dogsout]

Sven Ottke would be an even better example as Joe actually is an ATG at 168, whereas Ottke was a total fraud but retired as an undefeated world champion. 

[Doomguy]

21 minutes ago, dogsout said:

Sven Ottke would be an even better example as Joe actually is an ATG at 168, whereas Ottke was a total fraud but retired as an undefeated world champion. 

 

Man, I remember when he fought Robin Reid. That was the biggest robbery I've ever seen in boxing. It wasn't even a close fight, Reid was even stopped by the ref at certain points when ottke got tagged - I was like wtf is going on here!?

[dogsout]

Yeah, that was the worst I've ever seen, too. Ottke got a bunch of bullshit decisions in his favour but that was a farce. Reid was heartbroken afterwards as well. 

[Faded]

Lauzon fight Decision was... Interesting. 

 

[Faded]

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