Official Mixed Martial Arts Thread

[McFly]

22 hours ago, angel said:

 

cyborg says she cant make 145 with 8 weeks notice and turned it down, she may not even fight for it ever.

Ok well thats fair enough then. She/ufc need to work something out because she deserves to be in the biggest promotion way more than loads of other fighters of either gender. Is there a 155lb womans division anywhere?

[angel]

4 hours ago, Stevedave said:

 

I think she meant trying to cut to 135lbs. She can't and that's why her body shutdown. She's been the champ at 145lbs since Gina Carano fought but they didn't give her a shot purely because they know she'll win. They need to get some eyes on the 145 division and Holm (I so so wanted to put an 's') has main stream attention because of the ronda win. I don't like her chances at all against Cyborg - She hits like a bloke, and that's not a dig it's what her training partners say. 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Orion said:

No Cyborg has said she can make 145 but the cuts to 140 for the UFC messed her up physically and she needs time to recover from them. She will go after the 145 belt next year.

.

Refused to make 145 on 8 weeks notice, skip to 2 minutes here. I understand its hard but 8 weeks!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsZquU2FMkk

 

more on TFATK, even Titos confused

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATVxEVU-LzE

 

[Orion]

25 minutes ago, angel said:

 

.

Refused to make 145 on 8 weeks notice, skip to 2 minutes here. I understand its hard but 8 weeks!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsZquU2FMkk

 

more on TFATK, even Titos confused

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATVxEVU-LzE

 

 

This was like two weeks ago, the response to that from Cyborg  -

 

"In my last weight cut I almost died. I was in the bathtub cutting weight, and I thought, ‘I will die in this bathtub.’ It was the worst weight cut in my life. My nutritionist George Lockhart, who, by the way, is a UFC employee, didn’t do an effective job with this birth control pill he indicated saying that would help me. But thank God, in a war, I made weight, cutting 24 pounds in a week. My body was retaining a lot of water. The last time I spoke with George Lockhart was in the locker room before my fight. He disappeared after the fight. I’m not working with him anymore.

For the first time I didn’t warm up in the locker room like I do for every fight because I was too weak. I was just praying for God and went for the fight, and, once again, God gave me the victory. After all this, I went back to my hometown on Sunday and I felt sick on Sunday. My mother gave me tea and I fell asleep. The next day, like I always do after my fights, I did blood tests to see if everything was okay after a terrible weight cut. And for the first time, the nurses couldn’t take my blood, it was so thick it wouldn’t come out, so we couldn’t do tests. I was in treatment for 10 days with Dr. Ulisseia. I was in observation because I was feeling sick all the time.

You can see that I give no interviews after the fight. I told UFC Brazil PR Lilian (Caparroz) that I wanted to cancel all my interviews and couldn’t travel. After all that, at home, I decided I would not fight at this weight anymore, that I would only fight at my division. And only with 12 weeks’ notice. For my last fight, they told me eight weeks before.

I got a call from the UFC offering me another catchweight fight, and I said I would not fight at this weight anymore. I needed a break to get my health back to normal because my body was weak, I was anemic.

After that, they invited me to fight again, but this time at my weight and for the belt, but with 10 weeks’ notice. Knowing that I was recovering, like I said, I told them I can fight anyone in March, but I need to take care of my body, and no mention of the fact that I’m dealing with severe depression and can’t have another brutal weight cut like before. This decision is more important than the belt or the division, I’m thinking about my health.

I thank my fans. We did it! I’ll soon be fighting in my division, where I’m the world champion. You and God are loyal. I’ll be ready to fight in March.

 

 

So she will be ready to go next year. 

 

 

 

[angel]

Yeah I realised after I posted. So basically Ronda will never face her, because shes not hitting 140 again nevermind 135. Holly gets 3 months with the belt.

[glb]

Imagine if Rousey bests Nunes and Holm claims 145, there will be a fairly large cheque on the table for a champ Vs champ rematch.

 

If Rousey turns it down, Holm gets tuned up Cyborg in May / June.

[bobontheway]

If Rousey beats Nunes and Holm wins the 145 belt then I wouldn't be surprised if she moves up, fights Holm and win or lose retires immediately afterwards thus conveniently ducking the absolute mauling she'd receive from Cyborg.

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[dogsout]

Why are you all so high on cyborg? 

[schmojo]

Because nobody in MMA has made her look vulnerable. She's the women's GOAT. 

 

As much as she deserves a rough time for cheating and complaining, I also think that she's suffered from people thinking that her looks and spoken ability aren't marketable enough. 

[Yobo Ahoy]

I'm not a particularly big fan* but I think it is unfair the way UFC have tried to make her cut to 135 in stealthy increments, I want to see fighters at weights where they are actually healthy.

 

*I do think she beats Holm and Rousey at 145 though. 

 

[angel]

1 hour ago, dogsout said:

Why are you all so high on cyborg? 

 

I dont massively like her, but you have to acknowledge shes a murderer (not literally).  Saying that...although she's clean now (testing wise anyway), she's a product of years and years of PED abuse, so I do have some reservations in that score aswell. I mean physically she exhibits all the steroid hallmarks, HGH physical changes to her face and so on. It's true shes not overly marketable..a brazilian woman who speaks mainly portuguese and looks like a man due to steroids. It doesnt change that the UFC shouldnt have signed her of they were going to be unpleasant though.

[angel]

Aldo Holloway 208's off

 

http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/12/20/14034596/jose-aldo-q-a-on-max-holloway-fight-falling-through-clown-mcgregor

[glb]

See Aldo is still taking the loss to McGregor well  

 

Can see him being 70 in his rocking chair just mumbling, "Conor... Conor..." over and over to himself.

 

As for Cyborg, she's just fearsome (walks around at 170, so is a legit welterweight and she takes her power down with her when she cuts). Rounded skillset, dominant, aggressive fighter. The PEDs is a factor as angel says, but kind of give her a bye, given the checkered history MMA has with those special vitamins. Really hope we get to see Rousey Cyborg in 2017, it's about the biggest fight the UFC could make, bar some wish-fulfillment, fantasy division hopping by McGregor.

[angel]

I love Aldo apart from this crap he keeps coming out with. He lost, he got KO'd, it doesn't get more decisive than that. He doesn't turn down fights (oh Pedineiras did and I, as the fighter, was powerless). Come on. You cant talk about being a big man but then say your coach wont let you fight. He has a point about Holloway, who I think Conor and Aldo beat quite easily to be honest, much improved as he is, he hasn't faced someone like Aldo..who I still consider a destroyer. Macregor still takes out Holloway too, he's simply bigger, more technical and more powerful. Holloway is good but not at the level of those two monsters of 145.

 

But yeah his point over Holloway talking shit but backing out is accurate, Holloway comes from the BJ Penn school of shit talking with excuses. Kids xmas, gyms closed? Rubbish. Holloway is a bit of the Garbrandt in that he dismisses the accomplishments of the older generation of fighters because he's a young kid. But Aldo was merking people years before Max even looked at a gym, we've all seen Aldo taking people's souls in the WEC, with a level of dominance that was literally frightening. He's top of the food chain material, an utter savage, he had people 50% beaten before they even started, and then put his fist through their face in the cage. You can't take him down and he hits like a 170lber. Max hasn't faced this. Aldo wins by destruction, IMO.

 

But yes, Aldo complaining about people backing out of fights is a little bit rich, he has a 50% pullout rate or something ridiculous over the last few years. He has a very selective mindset.

[glb]

Agree about his level, he was so dominant; no wonder it burns that Conor's KO overshadowed one of the great MMA legacies. Aldo is a savage in the Octagon, no question. I sympathise a little with the rematch thing too; his record was such that he warranted that at the very least, and I'm sure it is all the more galling that McGregor got his Vs Diaz right away.

 

Some fighters can talk though, and Aldo just can't. He fell into McGregor's trap during their promotion tour being taking out of his comfort zone, and has been spouting half-arsed trash-talk ever since; the nadir probably being tweeting shite about the Irishman being a pussy post-Diaz loss, which was akin to the kind of keyboard warrior crap you get in the Sherdog forums. At least do it face-to-face or in a way that doesn't make you look so salty. A rematch would still be a money fight but doesn't look like McGregor has any interest in going down that route, leaving Aldo in a grating limbo where he's now by far the best fighter that remains at 145 yet unable to prove himself against his ultimate bête noire.

[angel]

Yup, Mac has performed the ultimate win and troll move on Aldo, which is a bit mad as I'm huge fans of both. I mentioned this before mind, go back and watch the Mac Aldo fight, just as Big John is about to raise Macs arm, he leans round and gives aldo a thumbs up, or something along those lines, and a quick couple of words of thanks for the fight, this is my respect to you. Then after that he obviously went into PR mode...but that was the little kernel of honesty right there. 2 men who had just engaged in a (very brief, but real) fight, offering and accepting respect. Conor being humble in victory, and Also took it with good grace. Just for those 10 or so seconds.

 

Like I say, everything since that moment has just been media spin, PR, leverage, interview talk and so on. Mac won on the night, he also knows what a stud Aldo is. Aldo lost on the night, he appreciated that was a hell of a KO.  2 men, both respecting each other.   Everything beyond that moment of truth is just PR.

 

edit - made a gif

 

[dogsout]

I just don't get the hype for Cyborg. Who has she beaten that is worth a damn? She's just as manipulative as the UFC, by the way. It's really simple: diet down over time and fight the smaller girls, or don't. All of the poor me stuff got really tiresome really fast. 

[angel]

2 minutes ago, dogsout said:

I just don't get the hype for Cyborg. Who has she beaten that is worth a damn? She's just as manipulative as the UFC, by the way. It's really simple: diet down over time and fight the smaller girls, or don't. All of the poor me stuff got really tiresome really fast. 

 

She hits like a freight train and its not so much who shes beaten, it's how. I dont think anyone in this thread would pick Ronda or Holm over her.

[dogsout]

That's crazy. Who cares if she looks amazing beating terrible or completely outsized  opponents? There's no point talking about her and Ronda because they're 10lbs apart. I'll reserve judgement about how Holly would do against her until I've seen Holly at 145, but I think she has the style to beat her for sure. 

[angel]

I hear you but cyborg has dismantled everyone shes faced to the point at which they didnt look like they had any business being in there. 10lbs isnt all that much either in an upwards direction, Ronda could easily fight legitimately at 145, it's just an open secret that she'd lose horribly and end her fighting career doing it.

[dogsout]

Come on, man. That's nonsense. 10lbs is plenty. If it's not a big deal why doesn't Cyborg diet to lose it? Because she wants to keep her edge. Feasting on bums and girls having to eat their way up to her weight. 

[angel]

Ah mate, come on, you know that 10lbs down is huge compared to up, you'd need to take a rib out of her to get Cyborg at 135. Whereas adding muscle mass in the other direction is miles easier..Ronda could easily be a legit 145er, but she knows she'll most likely lose to Cris. Putting aside the weight stuff, Cyborgs striking is lethal, Rondas is famously quite embarrassingly poor. She's a judoka with rudimentary striking and decent all round elsewhere. Better than the other women (Nunes tbc) but not on Cyborgs level.

 

 

[dogsout]

It's only huge because she's trying to cut instead of dieting down. How can you look at her body and not see she could be trimmed down? Ronda shouldn't have to bulk up; nobody should. She has chosen to bulk up whilst juicing over a sustained period of time. It's not natural. She is choosing to stay bulky. She's only prepared to go as low as she can cut to precisely because she wants to keep as much of her size advantage as she can. 

 

You can't judge how good she is when her competition is so bad. People are going on about her power but she is massive compared to most of her opponents. Her striking looks rudimentary. All I've seen is her clubbing outsized opponents. 

[angel]

Well of course you are entitled to those views, but Cyborg has categorically stated (and she uses George Lockhart too) that she cannot go below 140, even 140 almost killed her. Of course everyone knows it's due to the years of basically unregulated (ie: PED fuelled) living and training in Brazil, but it's where we are at now. She can't make 140, nothing will ever ever change that, whereas Ronda could bulk up over 6 months and be a pretty serious competitor.  In fact, adding to that, there's more and more weight (pardon the pun) behind not weight cutting these days, Gastelum the well known weight misser actually competes really well at 170. Cowboy has stopped draining his body for 145, 155 and is knocking fools out at 170.

 

Ronda walks around way above 145, she could easily compete at that level, maybe even be competitive with Cyborg. After all, no ones seen them fight yet, maybe Rhonda will be her Kryptonite. But this is for certain mate, Cyborg cannot make 140 any more, literally never, not during her fighting career anyway. Ronda could make herself a 145er quite easily. There are plenty of people in the thread who I'm quite certain will pick Cris over anyone in the UFC roster and have seen her more than I have. But the basic situation remains - Cyborg is a 145er and no lower. Not ever, and the best female fighter in the world.

[Tofu]

At the end of the day it is very clear that Cyborg wants to have her cake and eat it too. She refuses to drop muscle. Nobody will fight her at her weight. So Dana got some fights at 140. She can't hit the mark.

 

The only reason her weight cutting is so hard is because she wants to maintain her actual size while squeezing every last drip of water and fat out of her body to make weight.

[dogsout]

Angel, your argument regarding cutting actually strengthens my stance on this. She could make weight if she dieted but she doesn't want to lose all that muscle she put on. I'm not suggesting she cut to make 135. I'm saying she needs to diet to a more suitable walk around weight before beginning her cut,  or just stop talking about smaller fighters. Do you not remember her behaviour before the Hitomi Akano fight? Missing the weight by miles and then eating pizza and relaxing straight after just about cutting enough so that the fight could go ahead. Unfortunately her opponent was stupid enough to go ahead with the fight despite the huge size difference. And that is a tactic she has banked on time and time again. 

 

I'm not daft enough to believe a 5'8" woman walks around at a higher weight than Conor Mcgregor, for instance. Someone that looked a big lightweight in his last fight. And I'm definitely not gullible enough to believe she had been trying everything to drop the weight but just can't. She claims she cuts 40lbs just to make it to 145.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree I guess, bud.

[McFly]

Have seen cyborg fight Gina Carrano? Thats impressive. But i do agree somewhat with the weight issue, cutting is hard and horrible but i feel she could maybe just not go back up so much after the fights. Easier said than done, again.

 

As for Aldo, it reminds me if the Rossi/Biaggi saga in MotoGP. Biaggi the best 250cc guy ever (4x world champ) is now known mostly for being trolled by Rossi and cracking up under the mental onslaught. Its a shame really.

 

 

[angel]

50 minutes ago, dogsout said:

Angel, your argument regarding cutting actually strengthens my stance on this. She could make weight if she dieted but she doesn't want to lose all that muscle she put on. I'm not suggesting she cut to make 135. I'm saying she needs to diet to a more suitable walk around weight before beginning her cut,  or just stop talking about smaller fighters. Do you not remember her behaviour before the Hitomi Akano fight? Missing the weight by miles and then eating pizza and relaxing straight after just about cutting enough so that the fight could go ahead. Unfortunately her opponent was stupid enough to go ahead with the fight despite the huge size difference. And that is a tactic she has banked on time and time again. 

 

I'm not daft enough to believe a 5'8" woman walks around at a higher weight than Conor Mcgregor, for instance. Someone that looked a big lightweight in his last fight. And I'm definitely not gullible to believe she had been trying everything to drop the weight but just can't. She claims she cuts 40lbs just to make it to 145.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree I guess, bud.

 

I don't dispute you could be right, im just going off what she says..and seemingly is repeatedly saying (and her team too) in that she cannot drop any more. On one hand people are decrying the UFC for insisting she drop weight, and the other hand, people like your good self insist that she could do it. Initially I was in your camp too, but I can't ignore the sheer weight of people saying she just can't do it. I do think she has mental issues though, not meaning she's lala, I mean she feels persecuted and not loved by the UFC. I mean..she has Tito as a manager too, and on that clip above he's saying she's broke but refusing fights. When someone starts making Tito look like he's smart, somethings gone wrong somewhere.

[Orion]

She sacked of Tito as her manager years ago angel. If he is talking shit about her now that might have something to do with it. I don't trust anything Tito says about himself let alone anyone else.

 

I used to think she could make 135 then that video showed up of her in the week of the 140 cut and she looked half dead. Its nuts people still think she can just diet to 135 safely. It is possible I guess, I mean you could try and make Jon Jones cut to 155 if you wanted. It might kill him though.

 

Plus the UFC and state athletic commissions are trying to get away from these crazy cuts. The IV rehydration ban, changing the weighing in times etc.

[angel]

She was still texting him on that video so they must still have a reasonably close relationship.

 

Speaking of JJ, I watched him grapple Hendo on Sonnens promotion, he was 270lbs, he looked insane.

[Tofu]

49 minutes ago, angel said:

She was still texting him on that video so they must still have a reasonably close relationship.

 

Speaking of JJ, I watched him grapple Hendo on Sonnens promotion, he was 270lbs, he looked insane.

Did anybody really expect a different result? I love Dan but come on, he can't even stand up straight or move his neck. I felt so bad for him when I heard he was gonna grapple Jon.