Official Mixed Martial Arts Thread

[angel]

I know you say that Schmojo but Conors had some pretty public spats with them, I don;t see it as all PR. I think the relationship is business savvy, but Conor and his team do get a bit lippy. John Kavanagh and Dana don't get on for a start, remember the whole UFC 200 thing..after the terrible show, JK tweeted 'regret it?' or something, and White fired back 'not for a second'.  There's real tension there, it's not all promotion.

 

I'm not talking about fighters standing up, or the issues being invalid, I'm questioning how wise it is for some of them to slag off the UFC publically. Cyborg was finally getting some UFC fights and she comes out blasting them last week. Pena absolutely slating them for not giving her an undeserved title shot.  Dana banks all this, he remembers, then he fucks you over later. I'm not saying they aren't within their rights, I just find it strange the forums they choose to use to have a go at their employers.

[schmojo]

These personality types aren't slimy corporate politicians. They're strong and want their own way. And they surely want change.

 

Until a former champ runs the show, they're not likely to respect the suits who don't know what it's like in the cage, and screw them out of what they've earned. I'd have to imagine there's very much an 'us and them' mentality. And Conor is 'them' at this point.

 

It's also partially the UFC's fault for moving the goalposts. You can be a good fighter and never put a foot wrong, but it doesn't mean you'll get your due.

[Doomguy]

Helwani is a puppet for the UFC. Always has been. The people who've actually stood up for the fighters (sherdog writers like josh gross) were all banned years ago for writing critical articles / videos. They even refused press credentials if they found out sites were covering Pride or Strikeforce. 

 

MMAFighting.com was basically a shitty fan site until the UFC started propping them up. 

[angel]

49 minutes ago, Stevedave said:

Helwani is a puppet for the UFC. Always has been. The people who've actually stood up for the fighters (sherdog writers like josh gross) were all banned years ago for writing critical articles / videos. They even refused press credentials if they found out sites were covering Pride or Strikeforce. 

 

MMAFighting.com was basically a shitty fan site until the UFC started propping them up. 

 

You could not be further from the truth their man, he's a massive thorn in their side. Dana opened a lot of doors for him, but he's persona non grata these days. He only got his credentials back due to the outcry and bad PR.

[schmojo]

Got to agree. The Helwani fiasco from earlier this year seemed to make that quite obvious. 

[angel]

Did you hear his stories about how they used to insist on paying him via Fox UFC money, to undermine his credibility. Or how they pulled him from the Fox UFC shows because he dared discuss fighter free agency in his own extra curricular work, or how one of Dana's goons assaulted him backstage at a UFC event. He's probably responsible for more fighter unrest than any other man in MMA history.

[Doomguy]

Over the last say 2 years he's been a bit more scathing asking questions. Previous to that he had the most kiss ass relationship with dana ever. Dana would say ' hey I love this guy we need more guys like this' after Ariel asking about 10 staged questions. You can't ignore years and years of their relationship being like that. In fact, wasn't dana told to hold his tongue after the Loretta Hunt incident and repair the damage with the mma press? 

 

Your Loretta Hunts and Josh Gross types are the best journos in the game imo. They've shone light on some seriously shady goings on with the UFC.  The reason they're not as well known is because they got banned for doing so. 

[angel]

You need to watch this, Arial's been fucked over by the UFC, Fox, Dana, etc more than anyone ever.   Dana gave him loads of early access sure, they were friends .I don't know those people you talk about though, what's the Loretta Hunt incident?

 

 

[Doomguy]

He can speak out a bit now because he's got a following and people will bash dana on twitter like after he let the brock news slip.  I like Arial as he's given us access to things we've not seen before but that was due to ass kissing / fluff pieces. 

 

Loretta Hunt was the one who exposed the whole thing with Dana not allowing managers backstage. He got a ton of fighters to sign stuff half conscious without any consultation. Dana went MENTAL (there's a video somewhere) about the article and then had to make public apology / build bridges with the press. 

 

Josh Gross and pretty much all the early sherdog writers got banned for covering Pride - despite them basically being THE only news site promoting mma in the early days. Apparently Dana said he didn't want it to be called 'MMA' he wanted it to be called 'UFC'  - fucking idiot. Dana was that burnt by the situation that Gross still has no press credentials despite being at ESPN.

 

The guy certainly holds a grudge. 

[Doomguy]

Conor vs Diaz is up on to rewatch:

 

 

Rewatching all those running comments in the mma community had zero merit. Conor was shattered in the fourth and fifth. If he had traded more in those rounds instead of playing it safe he'd have lost. 

 

Any word on who Nate will fight next? I'd like to see him get a decent matchup at 155lbs then rematch Conor for the belt (if Conor wins) at 155. 

 

Also watching Diaz more makes me want Nick to get his shit together. He's the better fighter of the two.

[Yobo Ahoy]

I've never really been a fan of Nate and I think he's lucky to be as high as #4 in the rankings. His record is patchy as fuck and as far as I'm concerned he was just riding on Nick's coattails prior to the Conor fights.

 

Barboza is the most obvious fight for me, which I reckon Edson wins handily.

[angel]

I love nate, he looked incredible against Johnson and Cerrone. Hes durable and tough, really coming into his own now his body is filling out over the last few years. He's funny too, and intelligent (behind his slurring and Stockton-speak).  I find him hugely entertaining.

 

I think the Conor 2nd win was a credit to both, Conor taking on a man 20lbs bigger on the night, he won't have those cardio issues against Alvarez. And Nate took all of the shots of a smaller, yet still powerful man. You can't knock either of them really.

[Yobo Ahoy]

Yeah he has his moments - and I'm not saying he's boring - but the Cerrone fight was about 5 years ago now, I think he's only beaten Maynard and Johnson at LW since then. There should be no way he gets anywhere near a title shot ahead of Khabib or Ferguson.

[Doomguy]

3 hours ago, Yobo Ahoy said:

Yeah he has his moments - and I'm not saying he's boring - but the Cerrone fight was about 5 years ago now, I think he's only beaten Maynard and Johnson at LW since then. There should be no way he gets anywhere near a title shot ahead of Khabib or Ferguson.

 

If it was true performance matchmaking the belt situation would look like this:

 

Middleweight - Jacare

Welterweight - Maia 

Lightweight - Khabib

Featherweight - Conor 

[angel]

Its sports entertainment though, they need to make money. The UFC is stuffed full of incredible fighters who couldn't promote their way out of a paper bag.

[Guest]

100%. 

[Yobo Ahoy]

True, but if we all are assuming Conor wins vs Eddie - a title defence vs one of the real contenders would not do significantly less business than Diaz 3 in my opinion. Conor is the money, not Nate. 

[angel]

Im not assuming anything, its a solid fight, I see it as 50/50...rooting for Conor though, I liked Alvarez but his promotion of himself lately has been dreadful.

[Doomguy]

No way. Conor was great at the press conference and I say that as someone who thinks he way overestimates his ability. 

 

The only recent thing he did which I thought was lol worthy was saying he is:

 

'engaged next generation cardio training'

 

*insert picture of Conor on a treadmill*

[angel]

I don't understand mate, I also think Conor was great, i'm saying Alvarez is slipping up since he won his belt, hes coming across like a bit of an arrogant nit. And like I've said, wearing 'Underground King' on your tshirt and hat everywhere you go doesnt seem very underground to me.

[Doomguy]

That's my bad. I read that as 'Conors promotion of himself has been dreadful' - which is really a testament to how good his promotion is as you wrote Alvarez ha. 

[angel]

15 hours ago, angel said:

Im not assuming anything, its a solid fight, I see it as 50/50...rooting for Conor though, I liked Alvarez but his promotion of himself lately has been dreadful.

 

No mate, this is what I meant to write, rooting for Conor, I like Alvarez but his promotion has been bad.

 

Are you alright?

[Doomguy]

4 hours ago, angel said:

 

No mate, this is what I meant to write, rooting for Conor, I like Alvarez but his promotion has been bad.

 

Are you alright?

 

I'm a Conor sheep now. It happened. 

 

[Corrogate]

Always root against Conor, always! I actually think Conor will dust him if he gets off but I have it 60/40 Conor with hope of Eddie holding the belt. But also wanting Conor to win. It's a predicament. See past the bullshit, love the style. Great knees in the clinch during his fight against Nate too.

 

Alvarez is it gets past round 1.

[schmojo]

21 hours ago, angel said:

I don't understand mate, I also think Conor was great, i'm saying Alvarez is slipping up since he won his belt, hes coming across like a bit of an arrogant nit. And like I've said, wearing 'Underground King' on your tshirt and hat everywhere you go doesnt seem very underground to me.

 

You do remember how Alvarez made his money while his ordeal with Bellator played out, right?

 

If I was Alvarez, I'd be playing the arrogance card too. He's the champ, and people are happy to laud Conor for the same. And pay him.

 

Also he's beaten 3 world champs in his last 3 fights.

[angel]

7 hours ago, schmojo said:

 

You do remember how Alvarez made his money while his ordeal with Bellator played out, right?

 

If I was Alvarez, I'd be playing the arrogance card too. He's the champ, and people are happy to laud Conor for the same. And pay him.

 

Also he's beaten 3 world champs in his last 3 fights.

 

I don't, no.  He hangs around with Mr Pizza Mark Henry so something along those lines?  I've not cheated by googling.

 

I agree on his record being good on paper, but I don't think he looked amazing in his previous outings. RDA was an incredible performance, yes, but I'm not sure Eddie would have won if he'd not clipped him early.  He did though, so I take that. Pettis doesn't have much for anyone these days, the template to beat him is well known so that wasn't a stellar victory really, and before that was against another spent force in Giblert* Melendez.  Before that, he got smoked by Cerrone. I hate to be a Conor nuthugger, but what he said in the 205 presser was right, he's had a poor UFC career so far and is a bit lucky to be where he is. Conor talks serious trash, but he always has valid points behind it.

 

*deliberate, this is Reebok's spelling, in case anyone didn't get the joke.

[schmojo]

1 hour ago, angel said:

I hate to be a Conor nuthugger, but what he said in the 205 presser was right, he's had a poor UFC career so far and is a bit lucky to be where he is.

 

You really don't. You'll always take Mac or Dana at their word, despite their ulterior motives being terrifyingly obvious to everyone else. 

 

Álvarez supposedly spent his year in limbo fighting illegally in order to feed his family.

 

His record also shits on Mac's from every aspect except financial achievement. 

[angel]

15 minutes ago, schmojo said:

 

You really don't. You'll always take Mac or Dana at their word, despite their ulterior motives being terrifyingly obvious to everyone else. 

 

Álvarez supposedly spent his year in limbo fighting illegally in order to feed his family.

 

His record also shits on Mac's from every aspect except financial achievement. 

 

I don't see where I'm taking Mac or Dana at their word here?  Nor this "terrifyingly obvious to everyone else", you're getting a bit personal again which I thought you were going to cut out.

 

Had no idea he was fighting illegally, that seems pretty dicey.   I'm not comparing records at all, nor have I said it's an easy win for Conor. I think it's an incredibly tough fight, but the same time it's by far Conor's best chance at his 2 weight dream, rather than Khabib or RDA, which we agreed upon earlier. I'm just saying Alvarez hasn't set the UFC on fire really until he had that win over RDA, and I'm still not keen on his promotional efforts. He seems like a rabbit in the headlights on stage.

[schmojo]

You're criticising Álvarez for being 'arrogant', while condoning Mac's criticism of someone else's superior record. In fact,  you frequently champion Mac's tiresome arrogant routine.

 

You're incredibly short-sighted (and vocal) when it comes to those two. 

[angel]

I'm not though, Conor is incredibly arrogant too, he just does it better than Eddie when it comes to promotion. That 205 presser was like watching a master and an apprentice. Of course it all evens out in the cage, but people are buying that event for Conor. Be it to see him knocked out, or pull off the win.

 

Conor does my head in too, plenty of times I think he takes it too far. I also think he has dead eyes in most of his interviews, regurgitating his schtick on autopilot, its only the big events now where he really comes alive. I'm not 100% on board with him believe me.