Official Mixed Martial Arts Thread

[angel]

Yup it was the perfect send off, barely a mark on him and still dangerous til the end. I think Bisping had (and he admitted) big nerves over that one shot ending power, and Tim Kennedy et al can be twitter warriors all they like, but Bisping's put the graft in opening up the UK market, he lives in a lovely big house while Kennedy struggles to get high up on a fight pass card.

 

Agree on moose too, he's looked good for a while now, and with what he said about losing to Hall (he said it was a fluke, i'm inclined to think mousasi wins that fight 8 out of 10 times). He's become very entertaining now he's let his guard down a bit too, and he looks a relaxed killer in the cage.

[skittles]

My views from the weekend.

 

Manuwa looked class, clinical striking. Not sure how much of that was OSP not really trying or Manuwa tuning it on. I think OSP got hurt quite early and just lost the will.

 

Hendo doesn't really offer much. He looks so stiff. Right hand and some weird left leg kick. I thought Bisping did well and just out worked him, however he never looked like finishing him. I scored it 3-2 and gave the second round to Hendo for the knockdown. Close fight though, could have gone either way if Hendo got another knockdown in the later rounds.

 

Moose is indeed a killer. I think he'll go on a run to take the belt now but will probably run into difficulty against Jacara / Yoel but out strikes Rockhold/Weidman.

 

LOVED bisping with his face totally fucked up calling out the everyone by name in the top 5. Class.

[schmojo]

It was a great fight to watch, but not a great fight by any technical measure.

 

Hendo did his usual thing of offering next to nothing except the H bomb. Barely any fight IQ, and the only thing that keeps him competitive is a big right hand and a strong chin. The appearance of a tiny amount of wrestling was a bit interesting.

 

Bisping did well to grit through the 2 big hits, and deserved to win by being a much more active fighter. I don't think I'd put him in the top 4 in the division, but this title run is a real fairytale. Not just for him, but for UK fans.

 

Mousasi did a great job. Here's hoping he's starting to find some fire. Belfort was pretty gun-shy. Part of me thinks that the real benefit from TRT wasn't just the physique, but the aggression that testosterone gives you. He hasn't looked like he wanted to hurt someone as much as he did.

[skittles]

I wonder if in something like ONE FC, they would have given that fight to Hendo based on damage. Bispings face was a real picture.

[glb]

Isn't damage also a little misleading because everyone cuts / bruises / swells differently and at different rates?

 

Like, battle-worn Nate Diaz bleeds if he gets breathed on, and can look wrecked, whereas others with less scar tissue or different genetics are less prone to damage, or at least less swift damage.

[Yobo Ahoy]

GSP definitely wouldn't have retired as the champ had those been the rules. 

[schmojo]

2 hours ago, Hellcock said:

I wonder if in something like ONE FC, they would have given that fight to Hendo based on damage. Bispings face was a real picture.

 

If they were sane, they'd have seen that Hendo landed about 12 strikes in the whole fight. No org should give him the win at all. Not least because it can eliminate come-from-behind victories if someone's lucky enough to land a knee to the face early.

[Gotters]

Damage is a ludicrous way to decide a fight, as has been said many fighters mark up very easy and others are as tough as old leather, so what does damage prove other than the genetics of somebodies skin and bone structure.

 

The thin I don't understand in scoring still is takedowns, they seem very heavily weighted and huge point scorers. I get in a very close round they indicate skill but if I land 20 clean strikes in a round but get taken down once should it be scored even, did I lose it, how many strikes without a knock down beat a flash takedown with no subsequent mount or control ? That seems very murky.

[Tofu]

In reality, damage is simply not a factor. Knockdown are great, but when you literally aren't doing any work besides throwing the occasional haymaker, you aren't getting points. Hendo looked like shit after round one. Period. It's a fight, and the guy who's still standing is the winner. Hendo was gassed by round two, and by the end he was resorting to take down attempts to get some points, because he had nothing left, because he's fucking 46 years old.

 

Last thing to go is your power, and we saw that last night. Besides the few bombs he dropped, he was doing barely any work the whole fight, while Bisping dominated him in strikes and cage control.

 

At the end of the day, neither of them looked very good in there. At least hendo had the excuse of being ancient.

 

[Doomguy]

6 hours ago, glb said:

Isn't damage also a little misleading because everyone cuts / bruises / swells differently and at different rates?

 

Like, battle-worn Nate Diaz bleeds if he gets breathed on, and can look wrecked, whereas others with less scar tissue or different genetics are less prone to damage, or at least less swift damage.

 

Fedor used to cut easily but he'd also go on to finish the fight. If however he kept getting hit in the face ala Rory Mcdonald he'd have been a mess likely resulting in a KO.

 

For those that say it makes no difference; post fight Bisping didn't attend because he was in hospital and dan did media then had a drink with his team. I think that's quite the statement personally. 

[schmojo]

The statement being that a deep cut needs stitches straight away.

 

Hendo's been slurring and speaking slowly for so long, and absorbing so many big shots, that I suspect his aggregated injuries won't be as easily dealt with.

[angel]

Weidman already moaning on Arial's show, complaining about Bisping saying he was 'embarrassed for him'. Weidman who is reasonable and certainly not a bad fighter, but has a bit of a padded record for me, he's not quite fully proven. The 2 Anderson wins weren't exactly dominant, he almost lost to Vitor's first round surge, and he lacked fight IQ and heart against Rockhold.

 

He's a strange one, he's the all American church going family man, he campaigned tirelessly for NY, but he's a petty little troll when interviewed, and has already come up short when tested (with Rockhold). He showed some heart against Machida but lets be honest, he was a spent force by that point and Weidman made hard work of it. It really annoys me when the Americans all gang up on twitter, they're all full of their positivity stuff to the point of nausea, with all their stupid hashtags #gettingitdone, #thisishowwedoit, etc but there we have a genuine grafting champ full of heart, who took 2 H bombs and fought through it, getting no credit whatsoever. I know its bad karma on my part but I want to see Rockhold lose again and Weidman also..as tough as that is against Romero, ideally that would be a double KO like Maynard and Rob Emerson.

 

 

[schmojo]

You don't give Weidman nearly enough credit. Until he lost, he hadn't really been hurt at all.

 

He's a giant, Velasquez style pressure fighter, and probably feels like he shouldn't be two champs removed at this point. Though it's funny.

 

He's certainly not got the most appealing personality around, but he belongs in the top 5 MWs of the last 10 years, easily. The only other person I'd call a definite for such a list is Anderson.

 

I'd be very surprised if Weidman's time on top is over. Unless that single loss broke him (and it's happened to others, so I can't count it out), I don't see anyone not called Rockhold or Jacare bothering him. And even with those two, I see him winning at least half the time. I hope the Romero fight plays out like Cain's comeback fight against Bigfoot after he lost.

[Gotters]

Got nothing to back this up but I think Weidman's problem at MW now is more to do with the IV bans, as he looks to me really like a natural LH. 

 

Suspect he's boiling himself down to make weight and may not be quite as potent as previously, but even still that will be enough to deal with most of the division.

 

That said can't see him facing the monsters of LH easily, like Cormier, Jones etc.

[angel]

32 minutes ago, schmojo said:

You don't give Weidman nearly enough credit. Until he lost, he hadn't really been hurt at all.

 

He's a giant, Velasquez style pressure fighter, and probably feels like he shouldn't be two champs removed at this point. Though it's funny.

 

He's certainly not got the most appealing personality around, but he belongs in the top 5 MWs of the last 10 years, easily. The only other person I'd call a definite for such a list is Anderson.

 

 

I know, its more like for someone without a huge body of work he shouldnt be quite so arrogant. I'd argue Vitor and Machida did hurt him too. I thought Rockhold controlled him pretty well before the finish too, but he's definitely top 5 for a long time.

[Doomguy]

7 hours ago, Gotters said:

Got nothing to back this up but I think Weidman's problem at MW now is more to do with the IV bans, as he looks to me really like a natural LH. 

 

Suspect he's boiling himself down to make weight and may not be quite as potent as previously, but even still that will be enough to deal with most of the division.

 

That said can't see him facing the monsters of LH easily, like Cormier, Jones etc.

 

Very true. He definitely didn't look as solid against Rockhold and mentioned not having to cut weight to get to 185lbs that fight too.

 

Weidman seems better to me when he becomes as hench as possible and tries to bulldoze through opponents. The guy clearly has the chin for that fighting style. 

[glb]

205 tickets get!

 

Now to spend a month praying none of the main players get injured / Conor doesn't strop off in a hissy fit.

[Doomguy]

So this happened. 

 

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/10/12/13256490/fedor-daughter-attacked-after-criticism-against-kadyrov-child-mma-news

 

Total cowards. I hope given Fedors connections they're all tracked down and locked in a room with him. 

[Orion]

Rousey is back. Title fight against Nunes at 207.

[angel]

That's a tough return, how do we see it going?

[Orion]

They are both fast starters, I'm expecting a crazy first round. Nunes is a real threat early on the feet and on the ground but she has been known to gas in fights. Ronda would do well to weather the early storm and take her apart after a few rounds. Thats not really her style but would be effective. 

 

Nunes is'nt a clever counter puncher like Holm. She tends to rush in with her striking. Thats never worked for anyone against Rousey. I think the old Rousey 1st round arm bar after some fireworks. Would not be surprised if Nunes gets the early KO though.

[angel]

True Nunes isn't Holm, but she is a bit of a beast, maybe the biggest Ronda will have faced so far. Certainly she's a new level of fighter compared to the old brawlers Ronda used to put away like Tate and (cough) Correia.  I think Dana is bristling to get someone high profile back and active on the roster who's under his control. He was asked last month who's the no.1 in the UFC and he STILL said it's Ronda by a distance, which is laughably incorrect these days.

 

He's doing this for control I think more than for 'the sport'. I think he's closing the stable door though, Conor is the money these days, and if he ever walks away, the UFC will witness what happened in Canada when GSP quit but worldwide. Slightly off topic there, but that's what it's all about. Getting Ronda back on top.

[Orion]

Dana was asked if Ronda was the biggest star the UFC ever had and he said yes. I'm guessing he was talking about in the mainstream. I mean for example Conor has done a couple of the late night US talk shows, Ronda has done all of them, multiple times as well as huge daytime shows like Ellen. The media calls she gets worldwide is insane. She appears all the time in womens celeb gossip magazines like she is a Kardashian. Plus theres the couple of Hollywood movie roles and the red carpets and press that went with that.

 

Conor is the bigger PPV draw but whose the bigger name its still Rousey tbh even with a year off.

[angel]

See, I think it's Conor. I agree she's done more mainstream..not really counting her straight to DVD acting career, but I think on a straight buy rate, Conor smashes her. A lot of it being down to him being more media savvy, and he tackles things on many fronts. He sets up rivalries, plants things, lets them grow...and makes a fortune down the line. Rousey was arrogant as all hell before she lost in Australia, all of her embeddeds were of her being very bitchy and a bit unpleasant, then as soon as she lost...gone, no one hears a word for almost a year. Conor lost with some style against Diaz, he took it pretty well, and got back on the horse.

 

A straight PPV shoot out, Conor V Alvarez, versus Rousey V Cyborg...I still see Conor doing the bigger numbers. Still, it will be interesting to see Rousey post loss, but surely to god she MUST go train elsewhere instead of bloody Glendale with Armin Tamzarian.

 

 

[Orion]

Thats not what Dana was talking about though. He was asked who the bigger star was not the bigger PPV draw. They are different things. For example Ellen won't watch the UFC but she likes and respects Ronda. Ronda tapped into alot of female fans who are fans of her and not MMA itself so much. For example the quote came from an interview on New Yorks Hot 97 radio breakfast show. It was three hosts two men, one knew a little bit about the UFC the other knew alot. The woman host did'nt know anything about the UFC but she knew about Ronda and all her questions were about her.

 

Ronda took the year of to get over the loss, she said ages ago she needed time mentally and physically to get over it. She has done little press by choice. Dana said they still get crazy amount of calls from all types of media outlets  for her. She will be all over the media again in the build up for 207. If she wins back the title again it will be crazy again.

[angel]

I don't really disagree with anything you're saying, but I think her days of that hype level are over. She was known as invincible, that sheen has gone now. The way she dealt with it looked bad, the way Conor did looked good, I think she's damaged her brand. Dana definitely wants her back as his controllable star too. I think if she loses this fight, she retires.

 

Also I think everyone knows how terrible Glendale Fighting Club is now, they ruined Travis Browne (not that it took much to achieve that) and they'll ruin her.  Ronda in a proper camp is a scary prospect, Ronda out of Glendale could lose this fight.

[Orion]

I do think your right if she loses that could be the end for her in MMA. Nunes is capable of giving her a nasty beating too.

 

If she wins and its in spectacular fashion the mainstream media hype train gets crazy again though. Alot of her fans want to see if she can overcome a brutal loss and if she can do it they will be back on board.  The build up for a Holm rematch or Cyborg fight next year would be mental.

 

 

[angel]

I do hope she wins, and I bet the entire UFC back staff does too...Nunes is so unmarketable it's untrue. Nothing to do with her sexuality, she just doesn't have anywhere near Rousey's spark. I think Rousey then takes out Holm, with adjustments (made by Jackson Wink or someone decent, please), then maybe it's time for that Cyborg fight.

 

Problem there is I think Cyborg beats her, and I really mean the full usage of the term beat. Judo doesn't quite work when your opponent is that big and hits as hard as a man.

[Orion]

Holly is a Jackson fighter so no chance there but agree anywhere else would be better than where she is at.

 

Nunes is a decent test for the Cyborg fight tbh. They fight in a similar style but Cyborg is twice the size and hits twice as hard. If Ronda can't deal with her then the Cyborg fight would have been a slaughter.

[angel]

Oh yeah, of course, one of the most iconic Jackson fighters too. That's a good point..Nunes is a litmus test for Cyborg. It's a tricky call because you can see how hard Cyborg works, and to get down to 140 she has to basically run a marathon every day for a week. But at the same time, you can't ignore the eye test. She is absolutely the example of what happens when you take every PED under the sun, her face exhibits the blatant symptoms of HGH, her body is unnattural, she's apparantly a lovely person but you can't ignore whats been done to achieve her physique.