Official Mixed Martial Arts Thread

[glb]

Prefered The Ultimate Fighter finale matches to 200's (except Sanchez Vs Roundtree, which was DC Vs Silva without the star power).

 

Some impressive performance from Aldo and Nunes, but all felt a bit flat compared to recent PPVs. Even with a stacked card it was going to be hard to live up to the hype, and felt matches only really occasionally reached their potential. Still, there's a great month or so ahead, looking forward to seeing Holly Holm's comeback in a week or so, and Lawler at 201.

 

Was funny seeing Nate dismissing McGregor's trash talking - do wonder if we'll see a slightly different Conor in the build-up, because it is shakey ground to stand on and dig someone out when they've recently beaten you. Aldo McGregor 2 would be far more interesting now.

[angel]

nate beats conor - conor drops back down - aldo beats conor.   

 

I can see nunes beating rousey as well tbh - and rousey will be unable to perform her usual scowling bitch routine without seriously offending the LGBT community.

[Gotters]

I don't know much of Nunes but all the pre-fight talk was she starts fast and gasses quickly, so if Holm or whoever can stay outside she doesn't burn hot for long

 

Hendricks looks finished too - despite struggling to make weight he looked small and withered against Gastellum, he's too small to go up I reckon and just seems shot, think thats 3 losses on the spin now (and to make matters worse his restaurant went bust too). Shame to see as I always liked him

[Gotters]

reports are back today that the sale of the UFC for $4b will be announced

[glb]

$4b seems incredibly high price but the sport is on an upwards trajectory. Pretty decent business for Lorenzo and Frank, seeing as they paid $2m for the organisation not so long ago!

[angel]

I disagree I think its plateaud, part of the reason they're getting out. No one will get as big as ronda or conor, they're pure one offs, one of whom has had the bubble burst and the other is just about to.  I was arguing this with a pal, I think its gotten as big as it will.

[Corrogate]

I agree, I think that is a huge part of why they're selling.

[Corrogate]

Loved that Nate interview in the middle of 200. "It's kill or be killed, and what's what we're coming with".

 

And his response to Jones getting popped for juice - "Everyone's on steroids"

[Doomguy]

16 hours ago, angel said:

nate beats conor - conor drops back down - aldo beats conor.   

 

I'd go with that too. Conor will be a walking corpse if he ever gets down to 145lbs again. 

[schmojo]

I'm not sure Mac goes back to 145. Too much to lose, and not enough to gain.

 

He needs a win, which he's not favourite to get at 202, then he should maybe go after Alvarez. If he does though, he won't be a 2 div champ, you'd expect he'll be stripped and Aldo upgraded.

 

Then Aldo should go up to 155 too...

[angel]

dana after:   needs a proxy unblock

 

 

[glb]

1 hour ago, angel said:

I disagree I think its plateaud, part of the reason they're getting out. No one will get as big as ronda or conor, they're pure one offs, one of whom has had the bubble burst and the other is just about to.  I was arguing this with a pal, I think its gotten as big as it will.

 

I'm not so sure. Projections suggest there will be an improved cable deal once the current contract expires, and there is still potential for global growth if they manage their overseas events well. They also have an established SVOD platform (Fight Pass), which also has growth potential, again especially in overseas markets. PPVs without the two you mentioned are drawing around $21m in buys, or $250m per year. PPV and cable rights alone could net $0.5b annually, with gate sales, merchandise and sponsorship deals on top of that.

 

Rousey looks unlikely to return, but Conor is far from done, and there is always a new superstar waiting in the wings. Fighters are training smarter, becoming more rounded than 5, 10, 15 years ago and the sport is growing internationally on an amateur level, which would indicate a greater pipeline of future talent. Whereas MMA was not a legitimate draw for elite athletes maybe even a decade ago, now it is a way to achieve sporting success (be it the merits of competing or the financial gains). Fights are approved for New York, which opens up the iconic Madison Square Garden as a venue. That is a symbolic change, but it will be quite something to see MMA in a location so often associated with boxing. The company is also fairly dynamic and innovative with social and digital media.

 

I think $4b is overpriced but it is only bad business acumen that would stop the UFC from growing bigger than it is now; they have a really strong foundation on which to keep building.

[angel]

Rouseys coming back, probably xmas or new year, Dana says so (above). A new TV deal should be good I agree there..im sick of Fox, although I like the analyst banter (again, above, Bisping and Stann are hilarious, watch their reactions to stuff like when Dom trolls dana etc). Conor is about to go 0-2 so I agree he's not done, but his stock is gona take a big hit. Its all bluff and bluster anyway with him, the 'mac mansion' is rented, his cars are rented, he's like 50 cent in that he has to project an image but its all fake. Aldo is the greatest 145er of all time, he's not losing twice to Conor. Nate just absorbs the wee mans strikes (easy done, we've seen it already) and once hes on the ground thats all she wrote there too.

 

MSG is huge I agree but..what local stars? Frankie is in no mans land now, Jones is out, Weidman has never been a hue draw. Its great news but we're talking about casino owners here...they play the odds...they have access to all the back end figures we don't - and THEY decided it's time to bail. You have to go with that when forming the opinion. Sure, Dana says its time for a new level.but he's just paying lip service to the new owners. He'll work for them for a year then bugger off somewhere on a yacht. We'll lose Rogan, who for me is the voice of the Octagon, he goes hand in hand with all of the iconic moments...losing him will be a huge deal (he says he's off as soon as it's sold).

 

There's a reason someone sells something, because theyre done with it, and they know its the most valuable it will ever be. The Fertittas arent billionaires for no reason.

[ckny]

You're all forgetting CM Punk will be Middleweight Champion in a matter of months, then it's on to Punk/Lesnar to unify the UFC and WWE belts.

[angel]

Heh, my pal was saying the same but not in jest..CM punk is gona make them a fortune! he said.  My reply was..have you seen his opponent? A young hungry up and comer, he's a savage.. Mickey Gall will pulverise punk, it won't last 1 round.

 

I mean the belts are a mess now, lets look.

• DJ is great but doesn't draw, cleared out his division, and now he's injured.
• Cruz is good but not a huge draw, probably another 5 round decision chess match over TJ coming up, not lighting anyone on fire.
• Mac won't defend his belt if he can help it, Aldo is gona kill him...killing the UFC cash cow in the process. Love Aldo, but unmarketable, and he refuses to speak English (he said his 1 sentence at 200 was a one off at the presser, he said im Brazilian, I speak Portugeuse not English)
• Alvarez is good but again not a huge draw.
• Lawler is great..cant complain there, but again not a huge ticket seller..he's quiet and won't hype himself or a card up.
• Bisping..brilliant..at last, someone who can sell fights, hopefully he merks old man Hendo and puts up a fight against Jacare...don't let cockhold near him.
• Cormier's stock is at an all time low, lost his remaining fans by humping 2 day notice Silva, roundly booed and rightly so.  Jones would absolutely tear him to shreds.

Women

• Joanna champ - love her, no complaints here, love to see her fight Jojo.
• Nunes, who?  Utterly unmarketable champ, Dana will be begging Rousey to take her out quickly.

I think there are problems all over that lot...a lot of problems. Fertittas have bailed, and we've got that Ali act coming in too. That's not a coincidence either.

[glb]

53 minutes ago, angel said:

Rouseys coming back, probably xmas or new year, Dana says so (above). A new TV deal should be good I agree there..im sick of Fox, although I like the analyst banter (again, above, Bisping and Stann are hilarious, watch their reactions to stuff like when Dom trolls dana etc). Conor is about to go 0-2 so I agree he's not done, but his stock is gona take a big hit. Its all bluff and bluster anyway with him, the 'mac mansion' is rented, his cars are rented, he's like 50 cent in that he has to project an image but its all fake. Aldo is the greatest 145er of all time, he's not losing twice to Conor. Nate just absorbs the wee mans strikes (easy done, we've seen it already) and once hes on the ground thats all she wrote there too.

 

MSG is huge I agree but..what local stars? Frankie is in no mans land now, Jones is out, Weidman has never been a hue draw. Its great news but we're talking about casino owners here...they play the odds...they have access to all the back end figures we don't - and THEY decided it's time to bail. You have to go with that when forming the opinion. Sure, Dana says its time for a new level.but he's just paying lip service to the new owners. He'll work for them for a year then bugger off somewhere on a yacht. We'll lose Rogan, who for me is the voice of the Octagon, he goes hand in hand with all of the iconic moments...losing him will be a huge deal (he says he's off as soon as it's sold).

 

There's a reason someone sells something, because theyre done with it, and they know its the most valuable it will ever be. The Fertittas arent billionaires for no reason.

 

Pretty fair on a lot, although Dana also claimed Rousey was coming back after Holm lost to Tate. I think she's midway through a film shoot so wouldn't have done anyway but imagine there is a blank cheque with her name on it to return when her schedule permits.

 

McGregor will shine a light on several others for the next 18 months to 2 years (after which he probably will be done, thinking 4-5 fights?) This gives ample time to lift others to popularity but yeah he does need a big win to back-up his bravado. The buyers' best initial move is retaining Dana, as he, as much as any of the top fighters, is the face of UFC. What they have to do even more is leverage their biggest names with some up and coming talents.

 

Think perhaps UFC's greatest asset is its unpredictability. Fighters can't hide behind different promoters because one guy pretty much calls the shots, so records are pretty genuine (PEDs aside) and not puffed up by facing tomato cans. There is also a bigger risk factor than other combat sports because of the multiple styles on offer. As long as the sport retains that willingness to put on the big fights where anything can happen they have an incredibly marketable product.

 

Anyway, in doing some reading since my previous post, one red flag did come up, and that's the fact the UFC is private. A few articles hinted that the overheads eat considerable chunks out of revenue, but because its a private organisation the breakdown of finances is not fully know. So yeah, maybe there is more going on behind-the-scenes or maybe the Fertittas just saw the offer as too good to turn down.

[Gotters]

the valuation won't come from whether Ronda comes back, or what CM Punk or any individual does next - it comes I'd say from the fact that the UFC have built a recognisable franchise that has the capability to produce these stars (who can lead in movies and be on cereal boxes), and it's now worthy of being shown on mainstream channels.

 

its crossed over, its gender diverse, and that makes the UFC, and the top fighters, hugely bankable.

 

of course there are other brands out there, like Bellator, but to most people the UFC is cage fighting, and cage fighting is a tempting proposition as its got all the benefits of a closed format like the WWE, and far greater control over its fighters than boxing ever had.

[Doomguy]

I wonder what changes they'll make going forward. 

 

Besides some of the rules (which are beyond the UFC's control) I'd say the rankings need to go (they're a complete farce) and an additional weight class between 205lbs and 265lbs is needed. The reebok deal also needs nuking from space - it's been a complete embarrassment for everyone involved. 

[angel]

I disagree with gotters in that ufc 200 proved the value is entirely in the stars, not the company. If cono, ronda, jones, cormier etc all walked and signed for the newly formed FFC fertitta fighting championship next month (I know, none competes, they cant) then the UFC wouldnt be worth anywhere near 4bn.   The company is nothing, the sport can be put on by anyone, its the personel that make it work - and that list of stars is very short.

[angel]

7 minutes ago, Stevedave said:

I wonder what changes they'll make going forward. 

 

Besides some of the rules (which are beyond the UFC's control) I'd say the rankings need to go (they're a complete farce) and an additional weight class between 205lbs and 265lbs is needed. The reebok deal also needs nuking from space - it's been a complete embarrassment for everyone involved. 

 

no changes, thats the point..they want to cash in on the existing formula.  Theres no division between 205 and 265 coming, ive never heard anyone ask for that. They might try to make a womans 140 or 145 to get cyborg in but shes got no competition in it, and rousey wont do that weight class (even though shes walking round like a tub of lard right now).  The rankings arent going anywhere, they've never been used to decide title shots, I dont know why people get hung up on them.  Jacara cant get a shot at bisping on a 1 win streak, and the money is in hendo - thats the fight any sensible promoter would choose.  Reebok is here to stay too, dana stays and dana loves it, he'll be re-upping it soon probably. I agree though, I fucking hate it.

[glb]

The Reebok deal is all the more galling when the Octagon mat is emblazoned with 4 or 5 event sponsors.

 

Next renewal Reebok should be made to pay more for exclusivity, or approved sponsors be allowed on fighters' kits. If not Reebok, sure there are plenty of apparel manufacturers that would offer better terms now.

[angel]

fighters are allowed 1 more sponsor but selected by the UFC, and they get nothing for it.  dana basically sees fighter sponsors as people avoiding paying TV adveritising money to get a cheap mention for their product on peoples shorts and back boards - he hates it

[Doomguy]

Fight clothing should look like this.

 

 

 

Not this.

 

[angel]

totally, i fucking hate that reebok shot of them all lined up, and seeing all the corners on fight night in those cheapy shitty white tshirts. 

[schmojo]

1 hour ago, angel said:

I disagree with gotters in that ufc 200 proved the value is entirely in the stars, not the company. If cono, ronda, jones, cormier etc all walked and signed for the newly formed FFC fertitta fighting championship next month (I know, none competes, they cant) then the UFC wouldnt be worth anywhere near 4bn.   The company is nothing, the sport can be put on by anyone, its the personel that make it work - and that list of stars is very short.

 

I know that you love to talk industrial quantities of weapons-grade garbage (cf. This page), but you do understand that the entire sport is known as UFC to the layman, right?

 

The brand has created and survived each new 'biggest' star.

 

UFC has the contracts, international presence, and all the resources.

 

At this stage, for better and worse, nobody can touch them or their (medievally contracted) stars.

 

 

 

[angel]

43 minutes ago, schmojo said:

 

I know that you love to talk industrial quantities of weapons-grade garbage (cf. This page), but you do understand that the entire sport is known as UFC to the layman, right?

 

The brand has created and survived each new 'biggest' star.

 

UFC has the contracts, international presence, and all the resources.

 

At this stage, for better and worse, nobody can touch them or their (medievally contracted) stars.

 

 

 

 

see, there you go again, i dont know why i bothered talking to you, time and again you just act like the biggest mma snob. People are allowed opinions that differ from yours. You need to learn some manners, you talk industrial levels of smugness as if youre some hardcore authority, so you carry on with that while the rest of us discuss things civilly. Youre blocked btw.

[Tofu]

 

Jones was stung for estrogen blockers. Often used to prevent elevated levels of testosterone from converting to estrogen as the body recognizes a surplus, or to help raise natural testosterone levels when you are coming off a cycle of synthetic testosterone use. 

[schmojo]

22 minutes ago, angel said:

 

see, there you go again, i dont know why i bother talking to you, time and again you just act like the biggest mma snob. im allowed opinions, try to get off your high horse sometimes, my words are just as valid as yours. anyway youre blocked mate. feel free to add your final arsey comment and carry on being the forum mma authority

 

Don't worry champ, it's a free country! Dana would defend your right to pass pages of speculative horseshit off as fact to the death.

 

On a tangential note, it's been nice watching the UFC backtrack on their 'we're not selling, and we'll sue you if you say we are!' stuff. Just be professional and don't offer comment instead of lying.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Tofu said:

 

Jones was stung for estrogen blockers. Often used to prevent elevated levels of testosterone from converting to estrogen as the body recognizes a surplus, or to help raise natural testosterone levels when you are coming off a cycle of synthetic testosterone use. 

 

That's fascinating! I love reading about hormone replacement and the like, physiology is fascinating. The whole HPA axis is incredible. 

 

[angel]

1 hour ago, Tofu said:

 

Jones was stung for estrogen blockers. Often used to prevent elevated levels of testosterone from converting to estrogen as the body recognizes a surplus, or to help raise natural testosterone levels when you are coming off a cycle of synthetic testosterone use. 

 

where was this? he had some dodgy testosterone levels last year that had a few eyebrows raised.

 

edit - ah, BE

 

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/7/11/12152654/chael-sonnen-jon-jones-usada-drug-test-fail-estrogen-blockers-steroids-ufc-200