Official Mixed Martial Arts Thread

[Couch Corpse]

1 hour ago, angel said:

 

Im just hoping all the fighters on 200 are in bubble wrap right now.

FFS Angel, how do expect them to breath?! They would die if you put them in bubble wrap, and this would ruin 200. You say some really silly stuff sometimes.

[schmojo]

Great work by Wonderboy - really glad that his date with a title shot hasn't been derailed. And after his performance at the weekend, a potential clash with Cerrone sounds amazing.

 

Not sure what Rory does from here. He needs to build some killer instinct. The Rory who was fighting when GSP was still around would've had the belt by now. Hard to recommend anyone leaving Tristar, but maybe a change would do him good?

 

[Corrogate]

Boring arse fight on the undercard. Sam Alvey's got some balls. Does nothing for 3 rounds and has the nerve to raise his hands at the end. Pissed me off.

 

Joe Soto vs. Chris Beal was wicked. Feel like Soto should be bigger.

 

Rory MacDonald is way too cautious, there were people booing in round 2. Gotta feel sorry for Rory too, you can tell he was really gutted at the end of the fight. The thing about Rory is he's so good technically but he doesn't seem to set things up for himself, like he landed some really nice crisp jabs on Thompson but he's so pensive when it comes to releasing. Those shots on Thompson's knee were beautiful though.

 

Calderwood knock out was sick , that thing was such a mess.

[Doomguy]

11 hours ago, angel said:

I knew rory would struggle, he's just had too many wars. He's having problems with repeated nose breaks, and he was under pressure because this is the last fight on his contract before he tests free agency. That negotiation isn't going to go well now either, Dana hates free agency and all those who speak about it, so coming off this loss he's gona get offered the same terms or slightly better, no big jumps.  I can see him debating bellator.

 

Cowboy and Rory to Bellator? No matter how much crap dana talked he couldn't hide the fact those are two very legit contenders and draws. 

[Corrogate]

jon jones off his nut on the stuff

 

 

[angel]

38 minutes ago, Stevedave said:

 

Cowboy and Rory to Bellator? No matter how much crap dana talked he couldn't hide the fact those are two very legit contenders and draws. 

 

Nah just Rory, Cowboy I think has enough sway at the UFC to sort himself a deal....Rory angered Dana white by going on Helwani's show to talk about free agency..and coming off a loss, he's got much less bargaining power.

 

Cowboy looked outstanding, I did not expect to ever see him manhandle someone like Cote..who isn't top tier but he's big.  Also, Jojo is skint, she got about 25k (in dollars, before tax) all in for that, she can't even afford to train for a while and is going home to get a job.  Yet the company is being sold for 4 billion. 

[angel]

On 19/06/2016 at 3:53 PM, Stevedave said:

 

I get what you mean now, like they wanted to make a Fedor win look competitive but it backfired. 

 

There's talk of the UFC already having lined up Fedor vs Brock but I don't want to see Fedor get smashed by a 300lb sted head. They even gave Brock (who's been caught twice) a testing exemption for the Mark Hunt fight? madness. Have you seen recent pics of him back in wrestling?

 

 

 

Usada are all over lesnar, don't worry.

[glb]

On 20 June 2016 at 2:51 PM, Yobo Ahoy said:

The Calderwood fight had some of the most horrible refereeing I've seen in a long time. It should have been stopped 3 or 4 times over, you could see she was actually concerned about Letourneau in the penultimate exchange. Good sportsmanship but it shouldn't have got that far. Awful. 

 

Ref should certainly stopped it when Letourmeau turned her back, no need for her to take the shots after that. She looked completely rattled a few times before that though, probably a lasting effect from the early spinning back hand that dropped her (shot of the fight). JoJo 11 and 1 now too, deserves a big fight on that performance.

[Corrogate]

Nah fuck that! That's not how it goes in sparring!

[angel]

Great podcast here with jim norton, serra and white. I've been umming and aahing lately about this whole helwani thing, and after listening to dana I think im back with him, in that helwani basically played spoiler to their lesnar announcement. He's the bloke outside the cinema shouting star wars spoilers. For anyone who doesnt wana listen to it all (its 70 mins), nope..white is very much not ariels friend still, he rips him.

 

http://www.ufc.com/news/ufc-unfiltered-episode-1-dana-white-matt-serra-jim-norton-june-2016?utm_campaign=UFC&utm_medium=social&utm_source=sprout&utm_content=1466379061

[ckny]

It's news, it shouldn't matter how the story breaks.

[angel]

9 hours ago, ckny said:

It's news, it shouldn't matter how the story breaks.

 

Listen to the podcast. It was a collaboration between the UFC, WWE, this huge expensive promo and massively guarded secret, all filmed and set to be shown during the main event. Helwani breaking it ruined all that for everyone, I can totally understand why they were so angry at him. Apparantly it had the WWE and UFC people almost completely falling out over how it leaked, it could have cost quite a lot of future dealings, well..all future dealings between the 2, all for the sake of Helwani breaking it 2 hours before. I'm normally a huge supporter of his, but I think this one was too far, and danas right, he made it all about him..not the news.  And as for it being 'news', not really, it's an announcement from a private company, it's hardly journalism..more like snooping and a spoiler. Helwanis the bloke outside of the cinema telling people Star Wars spoilers. It's really put me off to be honest.

[ckny]

I take your point. I haven't listened to the podcast so don't know the full story, but a key point seems to be how you view the UFC - are they sport or entertainment? I don't see it any differently to reporting a football transfer before the clubs announce it. I get why they'd be angry, but at the same time I don't think he did anything wrong. #helwaninose

[glb]

17 hours ago, Corrogate said:

Nah fuck that! That's not how it goes in sparring!

 

What turning round and scurrying away? You do that in sparring, you probably do deserve a whack, but LeTourneau was clearly in discomfort several times before then, and as professionals hit harder and more accurately than any of us might, think she should have been spared the knockdown (Calderwood even looked slightly reluctant to finish her off).

 

Watching it again, it was an odd match. Calderwood no less impressive, but Trouble really looked out of sorts.

 

My goodness, 200 weekend is 18 days away

[Guest]

7 hours ago, ckny said:

I take your point. I haven't listened to the podcast so don't know the full story, but a key point seems to be how you view the UFC - are they sport or entertainment? I don't see it any differently to reporting a football transfer before the clubs announce it. I get why they'd be angry, but at the same time I don't think he did anything wrong. #helwaninose

 

I see them as pure entertainment and about as legitimate as WWE in about every way you could ask.

 

Its a carny business.

[Orion]

"as legitimate as WWE"

 

Did you miss the whole part where one is real fighting and the other is pretend. Its a big reason why one is breaking PPV records and the other is dying.

[angel]

7 hours ago, ckny said:

I take your point. I haven't listened to the podcast so don't know the full story, but a key point seems to be how you view the UFC - are they sport or entertainment? I don't see it any differently to reporting a football transfer before the clubs announce it. I get why they'd be angry, but at the same time I don't think he did anything wrong. #helwaninose

 

Yeah, i wasn't trying to browbeat you (as I can sometimes come across, dont worry Im aware of that), just explain how my opinion shifted.  I see it (and all sport) ultimately as entertainment, and I can totally see why the UFC wanted to control their information until it chose to reveal it, then we all get the wow factor.  I like ariel, I've watched his shows for about 4 years but Im with dana on this one.  Its a fun listen, that link, give it a shot when you get a chance.

[schmojo]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

"as legitimate as WWE"

 

Did you miss the whole part where one is real fighting and the other is pretend. Its a big reason why one is breaking PPV records and the other is dying.

 

He didn't miss the part where talking is more important than fighting ability in both when it comes to getting opportunities.

 

Or the fact that they both eschew shady, anti-employee 'independent contractor' bullshit.

 

UFC is about as illegitimate as a sport can get. But I naively still like to call it a sport.

 

If they have any pretence of being a sport, early reporting is certainly fair game. Fuck, it even is for entertainment. Hence entertainment industry journalism.

[Orion]

GSP and Anderson Silva seemed to do fine without trash talking. Both are worth tens of millions.

 

 

The UFC has its issues but fucking hell its not the WWE and never will be.

[schmojo]

Anderson... doesn't trash talk? He's a master of snide. Has been for years.

 

UFC ignores earned title shots, has fictional, internally moderated rankings, and fails to reward skilled professional fighters who have no interest in manufacturing beef for the cameras, or who don't specialise in separating people from their consciousness.

 

WWE is the nearest thing there is to the UFC. They're sports entertainment.

[angel]

Even sports like the premier league are ultimately entertainment, never mind the UFC being a walled garden, private company, big fights given to big talkers (and revenue stream drivers). And that's fine by me really. Ariel acting as if he's broken some watergate scandal annoys me, he ruined a promo with info given to him by contacts on the ground. That's like ruining Force Awakens with info cribbed from cinema staff.

[Orion]

 

9 minutes ago, schmojo said:

Anderson... doesn't trash talk? He's a master of snide. Has been for years.

 

UFC ignores earned title shots, has fictional, internally moderated rankings, and fails to reward skilled professional fighters who have no interest in manufacturing beef for the cameras, or who don't specialise in separating people from their consciousness.

 

WWE is the nearest thing there is to the UFC. They're sports entertainment.

Thats how boxing has worked for the last 100 years. The WWE didn't invent that. Thats how combat sports will always work.

 

[schmojo]

17 minutes ago, angel said:

Even sports like the premier league are ultimately entertainment, never mind the UFC being a walled garden, private company, big fights given to big talkers (and revenue stream drivers). And that's fine by me really. Ariel acting as if he's broken some watergate scandal annoys me, he ruined a promo with info given to him by contacts on the ground. That's like ruining Force Awakens with info cribbed from cinema staff.

 

Journalists report things that are of interest to their audience. This is exactly that, regardless of how Dana wants to dress it up. If you don't want things to get out, wire your shit tighter or plug your leaks. Ariel's job isn't to be Dana's glad-handing, sanctioned PR mouthpiece.

 

 

[schmojo]

14 minutes ago, Orion said:

 

Thats how boxing has worked for the last 100 years. The WWE didn't invent that. Thats how combat sports will always work.

 

 

With the UFC representing the sport's mainstream, there is a unique position for this not to be the case. It would be very easy for them to look towards legitimacy - after all, who could question the biggest game in town? In boxing, fragmented interests drive nonsense politics. Dozens of people pulling in different directions. UFC's fuckups are entirely autocratic.

 

They only have to work that way forever if people, and fighters, don't demand better. Fingers crossed MMA takes one of the better ones from boxing's book and the Ali act extension comes into force. That would be a good start.

[Orion]

Theres rumours the Ali act coming in is going to happen and is why the Fertitta's wanted a quick sale.  Fight pay is a huge issue the UFC try to bury all the time.

 

Fight politics and nonsense will always be here. In boxing, MMA, kickboxing...

 

Those politics will always be different from the WWE though as that is fake. You can't become world champion in those sports because you are banging the bosses daughter. 

 

[angel]

21 minutes ago, schmojo said:

 

Journalists report things that are of interest to their audience. This is exactly that, regardless of how Dana wants to dress it up. If you don't want things to get out, wire your shit tighter or plug your leaks. Ariel's job isn't to be Dana's glad-handing, sanctioned PR mouthpiece

 

 

I don't expect people to agree fully with either of our stances, its really divisive an issue. I just think its their promo, and I as a fan want to have the suprise moment..I don't want it ruined by ariel sniffing around gyms to play spoiler. Nothing to do with PR, I genuinely think he did it to shine the light on himself..hey..look at my scoop. It was coming out in 2 hours time on a broadcast, he just wanted to steal that shine.

[schmojo]

Why would he wait? Why would any reporter ever do that if they weren't getting something in return?

 

If you want to live in Dana's bubble so a vignette video will wow you more, you'll need to keep your reading exclusively to UFC.com sadly.

 

I seriously don't get - at all - why people were less pumped because they read it on a website, rather than seeing 2 seconds at the end of a corporate video package. I personally like rumours flying around. It's like when the transfer window's closing.

 

 

[Orion]

We did'nt even get the promo video in the UK. Fucking BT were on one of their million advert breaks when it aired. Rogan started talking about Lesner 10 mins later and I thought he was taking the piss so googled it then and found out. 

[angel]

1 hour ago, schmojo said:

Why would he wait? Why would any reporter ever do that if they weren't getting something in return?

 

If you want to live in Dana's bubble so a vignette video will wow you more, you'll need to keep your reading exclusively to UFC.com sadly.

 

I seriously don't get - at all - why people were less pumped because they read it on a website, rather than seeing 2 seconds at the end of a corporate video package. I personally like rumours flying around. It's like when the transfer window's closing.

 

 

 

Because its now cost him access to the UFC. Sure he's got his credential back, he can attend, but he's burnt his bridges with Dana, and I imagine you'll soon have Dana advising fighters not to appear on his show if they want to stay in the good books. This will have a huge trickle down to mmafighting.com, as Dana already said on that podcast I linked, its already changed they way they work hugely, this specific story from Ariel.

 

No one is saying use UFC.com for all your news, I'm saying that spoiling a trailer because you managed to get a scoop will not ingratiate you to the organisation, the main organisation of their entire business model, this is the real world, he has to face the consequences.  I preferred seeing it on the promo as I luckily did rather than having it spoiled by Ariel. It wasnt 2 seconds later, he ruined it about 3 hours in advance for no other reason than to further his own ends.

 

And this really is a huge problem for mmafighting.com, whether you agree with him breaking it or not, this hugely affects their business. Dana won't respond to Ariel in pressers or scrums, no more interviews, limited access...all for the sake of a transient 1 day and then done scoop. He's really shot himself and his employers in the foot. Say what you like about reporting and ethics and whatnot, but business wise it was a dumb move, there's no escape of that.

[Corrogate]

On 07/06/2016 at 2:51 PM, angel said:

Im not going to be petty and neg that corrogate, but you're wrong.

 

Interesting u-turn angel, especially when you feel self-assured enough to make posts like this.