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The Dark Knight Rises - Summer 2012 - New Trailer Post #1230


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Its based on a comic book of course its going to have nonsensical elements in it. I feel like we have been spoilt by Nolan where his previous 2 films were so grounded in reality. In Rises there's more moments of suspended disbelief certainly and it doesn't pardon the elements of pacing but its the GODAMM Batman!.

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I saw it earlier, and loved it. Not sure where in the ranking of the trilogy it fits yet, but it's certainly worthy.

Sure, there are some plot problems if you look to closely, but that's simply par for the course for Nolan. The same thing is true of The Dark Knight (Jokers' plan requires him to be psychic) and Inception (the rules of the dream levels and limbo make no sense at the most complex points). They are problems you simply have to accept in order to enjoy the rare gem of a thrilling and spectacular action thriller that simultaneously intelligently explores genuinely complex and compelling themes. Complaining about problems like the fact that the film didn't waste multiple scenes explaining how Bruce Wayne managed the trivial task of getting on an island just seems like missing the wood for the trees.

What problems there are I think can mainly be laid at the feet of the fact that Nolan didn't really plan out a trilogy, worked on each film as they came along. As a result, a lot had to be established in what should have been pure conclusion. For instance, I think that Gordon-Levitt's character would have worked better if he'd been established in the last film. But that said, the fact that the themes resonate as fantastically well as they do is an incredible feat, since they weren't planned out ahead of time.

One criticism I simply don't understand though is how anyone can see this fim as being anti-Occupy / the 99% movement, or right wing. I mean, seriously,

did everyone just miss the first half of the film where the rich are constantly vilified as decadent and complacent? The political moral of the film is obviously that economic disparities should be addressed lest the people's valid complaints be hijacked by ne'er do wells. There's obvious parallels with the rise of Nazism and stuff like the Golden Dawn in Greece. Alfred even has a go at Bruce for not funding the infrastructure of Gotham and instead spending his time and money on his own selfish crusade. How anyone can see this film is right-wing is beyond me.

Oh, and it's not his fault, but this is all I could think of every time Michael Caine opened his mouth:

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One criticism I simply don't understand though is how anyone can see this fim as being anti-Occupy / the 99% movement, or right wing. I mean, seriously,

did everyone just miss the first half of the film where the rich are constantly vilified as decadent and complacent? The political moral of the film is obviously that economic disparities should be addressed lest the people's valid complaints be hijacked by ne'er do wells. There's obvious parallels with the rise of Nazism and stuff like the Golden Dawn in Greece. Alfred even has a go at Bruce for not funding the infrastructure of Gotham and instead spending his time and money on his own selfish crusade. How anyone can see this film is right-wing is beyond me.

Yep, definitely.

For starters the Occupy thing is nonsense given that the film was penned long before that came to fruition in any notable way. The rich and 'powerful' are shown as almost uniformly corrupt or corruptible in all of the films, not even Gordon escapes scott-free there. The most "right-wing" thing I can think of is the use of the tracking device in TDK, but that kind of thing is a moral ambiguity adopted across the political spectrum nowadays.

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If you follow this logic there's not much point showing anything, just assume everything gets sorted out due to awesomeness. But as I pointed out earlier his unstoppable awesomeness is brought into question by the film makers 'vision' themselves, who've chosen to have him be a fallible, defeated individual who doesn't even do proper background checks on the staff.

Yes, because he'd do background check on ALL the catering staff like all purchasing clients do, not leave it up to the employers. Pedant.

Talking heads yapping away are integral but showing Batman stealth into a city under siege is unnecessary as we can all imagine it? It would help if the film makers had an imagination as well I think rather than relying on verbal exposition.

Yes. Because verbosity is so overrated in explaining the plot these days. LETS SEE BATMAN IN THE DARK. AGAIN.

There is no development of the McGuffin that is the magic USB stick. And it's a USB stick.

Yes, there is. Dagget bought the company thinking he could get his hands on a program that would wipe all data out on any person in seconds but Bruce got there first and obtained it so the criminals could never use it. I think that pretty much explains unless you wanted a complete rundown on it's coding and algorithims, but then we'd be back to those verbose talking heads which you don't seem to want.

Catwoman seems to be a lesbian. Then she isn't.

Err, no she seems sexually ambiguous which is pretty common nowadays.

There is no development in the relationship between Talia and Wayne before they have sex.

Yeah, because the 3 years of their working relationship prior to this film doesn't count for anything and Bruce Wayne has always been known for monogamy, right?

There is no development in the relationship between Robin and Wayne before he reveals he knows he's Batman.

I'll give you this partially, because although he starts to mention to Gordon that he has suspicions he is cut off before he can. However, as he is referred to as a "HOT HEAD" many times, the fact he goes straight to Bruce and confronts him works well enough because it establishes that he has nothing to lose, he's just an orphaned beat cop after all.

The is plenty of development of Matthew Modine that is dull and would look better on the cutting room floor while you flesh out the rest of the characters.

Modine's character was integral to the Gordon and Blake plots as he is their counter point. Cut him out and you lose two characters whose journeys were integral to the plot.

There are two ways one could go about fixing this movie; Make it a mini-series so it all gets the time it needs, or make it an hour shorter, tighten up the editing and drop the dead-weight.

I totally disagree. It was the right duration, it had the right amount of characterisation and plots for a film of this length and there was no dead weight in the over arching storyline.

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There is no development in the relationship between Talia and Wayne before they have sex.

Yeah, because the 3 years of their working relationship prior to this film doesn't count for anything and Bruce Wayne has always been known for monogamy, right

-----

But they didn't have a working relationship? Pretty much the first scene at the mansion is her asking if she could meet Mr Wayne - something it seemed she'd been doing a lot. But it suggested that they hadn't spent much/any time together if i remember correctly.

For a film of this length that sex scene was just out of place to me, and i assume shoehorned in to make the betrayal more painful, but in context was a none-event.

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There is no development in the relationship between Talia and Wayne before they have sex.

Yeah, because the 3 years of their working relationship prior to this film doesn't count for anything and Bruce Wayne has always been known for monogamy, right

-----

But they didn't have a working relationship? Pretty much the first scene at the mansion is her asking if she could meet Mr Wayne - something it seemed she'd been doing a lot. But it suggested that they hadn't spent much/any time together if i remember correctly.

For a film of this length that sex scene was just out of place to me, and i assume shoehorned in to make the betrayal more painful, but in context was a none-event.

I'm not being contrary for the sake of it but I have to disagree, it was a total event. Tate and Wayne had an at-arms-length working relationship, not sexual or flirtacious etc., with Bruce requesting that she invest in the clean energy project personally so they had met previously (so actually it might be longer than 3 years because the project had been mothballed for 3 years after Pavel made his discoveries about turning it into a bomb).

She then came to him at a time when his soul was quite literally broken after finding out the truth about Rachel and losing Alfred, so to me the sexual encounter was perfectly placed and in the overall story showed that her being able to manipulate the great Batman into the sack, earning that ultimate trust, showed just how great an adversary she was and how well trained she had been by the League of Shadows to operate undetected in the ... err... shadows. No-one in the film suspected her for a minute.

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And I will miss Nolan's Batman. He's my absolute favourite character in popular fiction and the way Nolan and his team brought him to life is pretty much unrivalled. Kermode is rigtht: we should be grateful that Warner gave Nolan pretty much carte blanche. I loved his use of actors, some of which you would never expected for certain roles, I love how these movies capture our zeitgeist, I love how dark and daring they are. I love them, basically.

Whatever happens to Bats from here on end, I just hope it will be another directot who makes the caracter his own instead of one who's only in it for the money.

Can you stop continually reaching into my brain and reading my thoughts please? ;)

I came out of the BFI Imax yesterday pretty overwhelmed by the whole experience and sure there are nitpicks and things that didn't quite work but seriously, it's bloody great fun and as I rode the train home I just realised how lucky I am, as an enormous Batman fan, to have this trilogy, this work of art, this cultural artifact, created in my lifetime. It's pretty special. There is so much of the mythos up there on the screen, so much spectacle and Nolan clearly has so much love for both Batman and cinema in general.

Imax though... WOW! The depth of the image at that size is staggering. It did make the non-Imax scenes look noticeably blurry though. Plus it made me a bit queasy during the city flyover shots. Like that feeling you get when you're on a train and you think you're moving but then your realise it's the train next to you.

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There is no development in the relationship between Talia and Wayne before they have sex.

Yeah, because the 3 years of their working relationship prior to this film doesn't count for anything and Bruce Wayne has always been known for monogamy, right

-----

But they didn't have a working relationship? Pretty much the first scene at the mansion is her asking if she could meet Mr Wayne - something it seemed she'd been doing a lot. But it suggested that they hadn't spent much/any time together if i remember correctly.

For a film of this length that sex scene was just out of place to me, and i assume shoehorned in to make the betrayal more painful, but in context was a none-event.

They’re two smoking hot people sitting next to an open fire, in a gothic mansion during a thunder storm. There was literally no way they weren’t having sex that night.

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Well, apparently there was a MAJOR change made to the outcome of the first Bane vs Batman fight after a test screening for Warners back in March, which saw some of the suits threatening to keep the film back from release until Nolan changed it!

That first fight has now been leaked....God, I wish they'd left it as it was, I'd have made this my top film of the 2010's, never mind the year!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cir1zKmi2Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

;)

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The original script had an hour long digression in the middle where the Joker escapes from Arkham Asylum and takes over a disused funfair, but then towards the end of shooting someone remembered that Heath Ledger was dead and they wouldn't be able to film his scenes, so there was a desperate scramble to edit together enough footage to make a vaguelly coherent three hour film without the core Joker story in.

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Well, apparently there was a MAJOR change made to the outcome of the first Bane vs Batman fight after a test screening for Warners back in March, which saw some of the suits threatening to keep the film back from release until Nolan changed it!

That first fight has now been leaked....God, I wish they'd left it as it was, I'd have made this my top film of the 2010's, never mind the year!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cir1zKmi2Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

wink.png

If only bane sounded like goat boy.......

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Yes, because he'd do background check on ALL the catering staff like all purchasing clients do, not leave it up to the employers. Pedant.

This is a woman so infamous that she needs a weapons-grade USB stick to delete her entire existence. Considering this is the home of Batman I'd have thought he'd have the skinny on such small details, especially when they're cooking his dinner.

Yes. Because verbosity is so overrated in explaining the plot these days. LETS SEE BATMAN IN THE DARK. AGAIN.

You'd rather make space for a couple of middle-aged geezers to yap at a front door than see Batman in action? Seriously? If dialogue's interesting then I can put up with nothing but dialogue, but this was just dull and said nothing that couldn't have been portrayed with a glance, or left to the imagination. You seem to like imagination, except when it's characters doing a Basil Exposition.

Dagget bought the company thinking he could get his hands on a program that would wipe all data out on any person in seconds but Bruce got there first and obtained it so the criminals could never use it. I think that pretty much explains unless you wanted a complete rundown on it's coding and algorithims, but then we'd be back to those verbose talking heads which you don't seem to want.

Yeah, I know what it does, it just seemed completely throw-away for a USB stick to be Catwoman's main motivation. I thought she was a bad-ass who enjoyed robbing stuff? Turns out she actually just wanted to delete her records and settle down, although no one seemed aware who she was in the first place so she may as well just have got the Greyhound to Malibu.

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This is a woman so infamous that she needs a weapons-grade USB stick to delete her entire existence. Considering this is the home of Batman I'd have thought he'd have the skinny on such small details, especially when they're cooking his dinner.

Yeah, I know what it does, it just seemed completely throw-away for a USB stick to be Catwoman's main motivation. I thought she was a bad-ass who enjoyed robbing stuff? Turns out she actually just wanted to delete her records and settle down, although no one seemed aware who she was in the first place so she may as well just have got the Greyhound to Malibu.

I'm beginning to think maybe I watched, and paid full attention to, a different film than you.

Bruce Wayne, who as the narrative very clearly points out has been out of the Batman gig for EIGHT YEARS (remember that scene where Alfred goes to drop breakfast in and Bruce is downstairs on the computer and Alfred makes reference that he hadn't been down there in a very long time) explained very clearly that Selina Kyle was being closed in on by the Police and other criminals from around the world (something about her safe ground shrinking very quickly).

Selina herself explained she needs to be able to disappear somewhere she is completely anonymous with a clean slate so she works with Daggett's men who claim to have the program that can do just that (hence that scene where Daggett mocks her saying it doesn't exist because he bought the company from Wayne Enterprises, after Bruce already had taken and hidden all trace of the program).

If an error was to be pointed out, it would be that they go to Florence which is hardly off the beaten track and somewhere I would expect Bruce Wayne to be recognised. But then I took that as a necessary evil as Bruce wanting to tell Alfred he'd be okay and thank you for everything.

You'd rather make space for couple of middle-aged geezers to yap at a front door than see Batman in action? Seriously? If dialogue's interesting then I can put up with nothing but dialogue, but this was just dull and said nothing that couldn't have been portrayed with a glance, or left to the imagination. You seem to like imagination, except when it's characters doing a Basil Exposition.

If it's important to character arc and the overall story progression then yes, yes I would rather see 2 characters discussing information that may, at some point later in said film, be pertinent. Much like all the discussions between Modine/Oldman, Oldman/Blake/Modine etc.

As for the imagination aspect of things, certain aspects of new characters interactions with existing characters need to be underscored by some verbose interaction otherwise characters actions may be construed incorrectly ie; Selina Kyle seemingly being a lesbian but then apparently not.

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I'm beginning to think maybe I watched, and paid full attention to, a different film than you.

I understood what was happening, I just don't think bits of it were very interesting or in certain cases even necessary. Repeating what happened doesn't make the scenes I found unnecessary or dull any more interesting for me. It's like having a supposedly hilarious joke that falls flat explained to you.

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The thing that I didn't enjoy which surprised me was Blake, I really felt he wasn't needed in the film at all, plus even him and regarding the ending was a massive stretch.....

So we're supposed to believe Robin aka Blake will become the new Batman, however, even I find that really unplausible since he has no training, and no support.

Bane gets killed like a chump after all the build u

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I understood what was happening, I just don't think bits of it were very interesting or in certain cases even necessary. Weirdly, repeating what happened doesn't make the scenes I found unnecessary or dull any more interesting for me. It's like having a supposedly hilarious joke that falls flat explained to you.

bummers are deaf

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Plus I really enjoyed all the comic geek nods like homages to Adamu Hughes's Catwoman covers.

I was thinking it would have benefitted from being more like Hughe's, but the body part of it was in keeping. Liked the way her ears turned into her goggles, but prefer the look of Hughe's hood/goggles combo. Seeing Hathaway out-acted by her own arse was interesting too.

Art_Of_Detail_by_AdamHughes.jpg

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