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The Dark Knight Rises - Summer 2012 - New Trailer Post #1230


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Nolan's Foreword for the Trilogy Making of book -

Alfred. Gordon. Lucius. Bruce . . . Wayne. Names that have come to mean so much to me. Today, I’m three weeks from saying a final good-bye to these characters and their world. It’s my son’s ninth birthday. He was born as the Tumbler was being glued together in my garage from random parts of model kits. Much time, many changes. A shift from sets where some gunplay or a helicopter were extraordinary events to working days where crowds of extras, building demolitions, or mayhem thousands of feet in the air have become familiar.

People ask if we’d always planned a trilogy. This is like being asked whether you had planned on growing up, getting married, having kids. The answer is complicated. When David and I first started cracking open Bruce’s story, we flirted with what might come after, then backed away, not wanting to look too deep into the future. I didn’t want to know everything that Bruce couldn’t; I wanted to live it with him. I told David and Jonah to put everything they knew into each film as we made it. The entire cast and crew put all they had into the first film. Nothing held back. Nothing saved for next time. They built an entire city. Then Christian and Michael and Gary and Morgan and Liam and Cillian started living in it. Christian bit off a big chunk of Bruce Wayne’s life and made it utterly compelling. He took us into a pop icon’s mind and never let us notice for an instant the fanciful nature of Bruce’s methods.

I never thought we’d do a second—how many good sequels are there? Why roll those dice? But once I knew where it would take Bruce, and when I started to see glimpses of the antagonist, it became essential. We re-assembled the team and went back to Gotham. It had changed in three years. Bigger. More real. More modern. And a new force of chaos was coming to the fore. The ultimate scary clown, as brought to terrifying life by Heath. We’d held nothing back, but there were things we hadn’t been able to do the first time out—a Batsuit with a flexible neck, shooting on Imax. And things we’d chickened out on—destroying the Batmobile, burning up the villain’s blood money to show a complete disregard for conventional motivation. We took the supposed security of a sequel as license to throw caution to the wind and headed for the darkest corners of Gotham.

I never thought we’d do a third—are there any great second sequels? But I kept wondering about the end of Bruce’s journey, and once David and I discovered it, I had to see it for myself. We had come back to what we had barely dared whisper about in those first days in my garage. We had been making a trilogy. I called everyone back together for another tour of Gotham. Four years later, it was still there. It even seemed a little cleaner, a little more polished. Wayne Manor had been rebuilt. Familiar faces were back—a little older, a little wiser . . . but not all was as it seemed.

Gotham was rotting away at its foundations. A new evil bubbling up from beneath. Bruce had thought Batman was not needed anymore, but Bruce was wrong, just as I had been wrong. The Batman had to come back. I suppose he always will.

Michael, Morgan, Gary, Cillian, Liam, Heath, Christian . . . Bale. Names that have come to mean so much to me. My time in Gotham, looking after one of the greatest and most enduring figures in pop culture, has been the most challenging and rewarding experience a filmmaker could hope for. I will miss the Batman. I like to think that he’ll miss me, but he’s never been particularly sentimental.

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And I will miss Nolan's Batman. He's my absolute favourite character in popular fiction and the way Nolan and his team brought him to life is pretty much unrivalled. Kermode is rigtht: we should be grateful that Warner gave Nolan pretty much carte blanche. I loved his use of actors, some of which you would never expected for certain roles, I love how these movies capture our zeitgeist, I love how dark and daring they are. I love them, basically.

Whatever happens to Bats from here on end, I just hope it will be another directot who makes the caracter his own instead of one who's only in it for the money.

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So, for various reasons (mainly that Id already promised a friend that I'd see the film with her) I saw this again last night after having seen it on Friday and being slightly disappointed with it. However, on second viewing I feel a lot more positive about the film. I really enjoyed it again and knowing how the plot was to unfold made me see certain events in a different light and I actually think the whole thing holds together slightly better if you know in which direction it is heading.

It is also a completely terrific thriller in many ways. Perhaps not a traditional summer action movie but it is so tense throughout and there is not nearly as much action as you would imagine from an 'event' movie like, say, The Avengers.

Also, going in this time I knew what the film was going to be and therefore I wasn't disappointed by the fairly limited Batman time we actually get and appreciated it far more as a character study into Bruce Wayne. There are still some misgivings about the general structure but I'm glad to say I feel much more positively about it now. Probably still the weakest of the trilogy but that's only the case since the first two were so good.

Some miner story observations then:

I still think the structure of Bruce Wayne being out of action and having to become Batman again isn't the best use of time or narrative. Also, Bane's first beat down of Batman doesn't quite have the same impact as you might expect since up to that point the film has basically just showed us that he is not up to the job. Hence when he fails to defeat Bane its not all that surprising. Had Batman been at the top of his game and still taken down by Bane that would have been more interestingly.

The City siege still doesn't really work as well as it should. We don't see enough of the struggles for ordinary citizens nor what the criminals are up to. Also, Bane's use of Batman's considerable arsenal is really just used as escorts for the bomb which seems slightly wasteful after all the effort he took to procure those toys.

The battle between the cops and the baddies at the end is a bit silly. We get all these establishing shots of all the virtually unarmed cops and all of the shots of these villains tooled up to the teeth with weaponry that when it kicks off it seems none of them can aim for toffee whereas you'd expect them to really just mow down the police officers. As someone said earlier, you have hoped cops might have had a better game plan than just marching up to a bunch of baddies armed with automatic weapons!

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I still remember sitting there watching Batman (the Tim Burton one) in the cinema at the age of fourteen or something, and thinking what a crappy movie it was, how he'd totally got the tone of Batman's world wrong (although got Bruce Wayne totally right, oddly enough) and how I wished someone would just make a Batman film without being ashamed of the source material. And Batman Begins totally knocked it out the park, still my favourite of the three- I've not seen it since the first time in the cinema and don't really feel the need to, it worked perfectly for me- that Scarecrow moment was brilliant, the whole evolution of Bruce Wayne... I'm not really a fan of this third film, I just don't buy into the plot and the machinations of the bad guys, but I kind of think that's irrelevant overall... I'm more glad that these films exist and someone has finally managed to make a film about a rich man who wears fancy dress and beats people up, and make it feel serious and epic and enjoyable. :)

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Had an utterly lovely time seeing this with the Mrs.

It's a rambling mess of a film, completely incoherent at worst with the plot being moved along by near random actions from the main players and probably about half an hour too long.

But not the last half an hour which was ludicrously satisfying. Anne Hathaway and Tom Hardy played blinders and the tone of the film would be near impossible to improve. we came out of the pictures grinning for ear to ear.

I love it when something is such an overwhelmingly enjoyable experience that a myriad of obvious flaws just don't matter at all :D

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I've been thinking about it more and I'm liking the film less and less even if I still like the ending given to the major players.

I really think Nolan dropped the ball by rejecting the ending of 'The Dark Knight' - Gordon tells his son that they'll hunt him because he's the hero the city needs, not the one it wants but the one it deserves - leaving us bursting with pride that Batman has taken the rap for the Dent killings and will continue to watch over Gotham even though now he will be hunted by the GCPD as well.

Then 'Rises' begins and we see that in fact, that didn't happen. He drove home on the Batpod, took off the cape, had Alfred remove Dent's bullet and then went and shot some arrows. For eight years. It deliberately undos the previous film's work.

I think the film would have made more thematic and narrative sense if it had:

1)Had Bruce keep up the mantle in the 8yrs that have passed. Instead of rejecting Batman, he's been consumed by him. Alfred is afraid that Bruce will never re-appear because since Rachael's death he's stayed Batman. I dont know if you'd have had him in the suit 24/7 but I would have liked a hint of that. YOu think that bruce has went well over the edge.

2)Organised crime could have been cleaned up by the Dent Act but he could still be busting heads every night. Perhaps he could have become increasingly overconfident / frustrated by a lack of challenge and that explains his rush to take on Bane and get his arse handed to him. This would allow the Wayne Board/Orphan Home/Miranda Tate/Energy Bomb storyline to play out as they did in the film but due to Wayne's obsession to being Bats not to moping about in the East wing.

3)Have Bruce put into the prison and watch Gotham turn into a living hell but SHOW IT. Show the effects of a 5 month seige on a city. There should be rioting, looting, food shortages, people trying to swim off the island and being shot - anything other than Jim Gordon and his bunch of suspiciosuly well fed cops playing hide and seek with some trucks.

4)I'd have killed off the cops in the tunnels simply so I wouldn't have to invent a way for them to appear again when needed and be fighting fit - if you must have them for the big battle at the end? Have them infiltrate Bane's men in groups over the previous weeks, didguised as ordinary citizens - have Gordon turn up at the end have the cops "revolt" from within. It's a better way to tackle the baddies than running, 18th century style into a line of their gunfire.

I dunno. I did like it and I am still thinking about it but there are just so many holes and odd choices for me to say it was a good film.

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How in the world does Alfred know so much about Bane's backstory?

I've mentioned this earlier in the thread but Alfred doing background research on villians using the Bat Computer is a pretty traditional thing for him to do for Bruce in the comics, older films and cartoons etc.

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GlasgowChivas - The whole point was that they

DIDN'T turn Gotham into a living hell. It wasn't under siege, it was opened up to 'the people' so that they might enjoy a period of hope that would eventually be crushed under Bane's boot.

I do like the idea expressed point 1 of your spoiler box, though. Would have handily dealt with the main problem some had with the film

- that Batman wasn't in it enough.

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GlasgowChivas - The whole point was that they

DIDN'T turn Gotham into a living hell. It wasn't under siege, it was opened up to 'the people' so that they might enjoy a period of hope that would eventually be crushed under Bane's boot.

The problem was that by all rights it should have been a living hell but actually it looked ok. The story indicates that people are being kicked out of their houses, food and commodities are in short supply, electricity is inconsistent and children are being beaten by grown men over an apple. And, oh yes, we've just let out 1000 dangerous/unhinged criminals and armed them with automatic weapons and let them loose onto the street. By all indications Gotham should be in a terrible state but actually it all looks perfectly liveable after five months of this oppression. That's what makes that segment of the film slightly unbelievable.

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GlasgowChivas - The whole point was that they

DIDN'T turn Gotham into a living hell. It wasn't under siege, it was opened up to 'the people' so that they might enjoy a period of hope that would eventually be crushed under Bane's boot.

I do like the idea expressed point 1 of your spoiler box, though. Would have handily dealt with the main problem some had with the film

- that Batman wasn't in it enough.

Ok, I'll concede that point but the film still didn't show it. You could have had

kid gangs running amok without police interferance, bands of homeowners forming trigger happy militias to defend their turf, even just people on the streets man. Instead Nolan had them all as shut-in's. Gotham, once freed by Bane, was a ghost-town.

I like the idea of the seige - I think it's actually a great plan and a fitting plan for the League of Shadows but it's execution was woeful.

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Ok, I'll concede that point but the film still didn't show it. You could have had

kid gangs running amok without police interferance, bands of homeowners forming trigger happy militias to defend their turf, even just people on the streets man. Instead Nolan had them all as shut-in's. Gotham, once freed by Bane, was a ghost-town.

I like the idea of the seige - I think it's actually a great plan and a fitting plan for the League of Shadows but it's execution was woeful.

Fair point. That bit was undersold somewhat.

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Something about the ending that makes it less ambiguous (if any ambiguity really remains):

I forgot that the pearls had a tracking device in them. THAT'S how Alfred got to the cafe and the happy ending. He didn't just happen to turn up there randomly and Bruce happened to be there. He followed the tracker, arrived, ordered the drink he'd ordered in his little story to Bruce, and then dared to look over.

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Couple of things i'd have changed..

Firstly i totally agree about Batman fighting petty crimes at the start and going with the 'too cocky' angle in the bane fight. As you said it would kill 2 birds with one stone : the lack of Batman and the shock effect of him losing to Bane in such a brutal way.

I'd also have changed the wall street riots to dusk, so the bat sequence could take place at night....the costumes don't really work in broad daylight, and it would've added to the sense of chaos, would have gone some way to hide the bulletproof cops as well. In fact I think the scene would've worked better if Bane would've asked his mercs to drop the guns as he knew they were fighting down and out coppers, would've been a lot better imo

Still these are all nit picking moments in a cracking film. It's certainly no Robocop 3 or Indy 4.

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Saw it at the IMAX last night (no trailers), and really enjoyed it. That said there is plenty I could nitpick/would personally have done differently:-

The whole cripple thing at the beginning (and then later in the film). Totally not worth it. Why have him crippled at all, it's 8 years later and no injury was explicit from the previous film, especially when as many have pointed out he's going to get seriously injured later and more importantly for me he just goes oh yeah actually i'll give this exercise thing a go. Oh wow back to normal.

I would have much preferred him living the life of a vacuous playboy, he'd had to abandon the bat but had become stuck carrying on his pretence of being a dumb millionaire. Have him turn up at a party at his own house for 5 minutes just to make an appearance having been out with some girls somewhere else, before dissapearing off to his room alone.

Bane should have been a real terrorist. Him and his men mounting attacks on Gotham and terrorising it at will. Following on from the Dark Knight where Batman goes to Asia to pick the guy up. Batman goes to Bane's base of operations (in whatever country the pit is in), thinking he can take Bane down and stop the terrorism at it's source. He oversteps himself and ends up with a broken back and put down the pit.

The whole shares/money thing, so pointless. 'Bruce all your money has been stolen' 'Ahh oh well'.

The nuclear bomb? Which was just a fancy fusion thing that could be turned into a nuclear bomb by 1 scientist. But it wasn't worth flooding it before? Lets see we have this thing you're worried about it being a bomb, but you're not going to destroy it or use it to create free energy? Also millions was spent creating this thing, so I assume the millions weren't spent on Fox and Wayne's wages while they decided to assemble it together, so there's a good chance another 1 could be built at some point.

Why not just have Bane stealing and kidnapping and smuggling until he could make, erm an actual nuclear bomb?

Also I realise ticking time bombs are pretty common in Batman (at least from what i remember from the tv show), but why not have the threat a little less defined - i.e. no specific countdown -maybe it's not good for building tension but personally i'd like to see a bomb where people have an idea but aren't certain how long til the bomb will blow.

The police fight - I was really sure this was the point it was going to turn into Bugsy Malone. In fact the way everyone traded down their guns for punches it pretty much was a medium weight Bugsy moment.

The idea was nice and the general aesthetic was good but someone should plotted it together more.

Once Batman burst through into the room with Bane and whoever, it completely jumped out of the previous action, you lost the big effect that there was meant to be this massive (okay only a punch up) happening outside. We didn't need to have anyone directly interrupt the fight but the feeling needed to be carried through.

Bane's death (assuming it was 1) was pretty nothing having been the major villain. She was not good enough to deserve to be the big bad. No threat when that turn came. Bane's voice was threatening but I did find it hard to understand at times.

Like I said i enjoyed it, but I would have done a few things different :)

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The whole cripple thing at the beginning (and then later in the film). Totally not worth it. Why have him crippled at all, it's 8 years later and no injury was explicit from the previous film,

I thought the whole being injured thing was just Bruce Wayne faking it for a cover story? I mean at the end of TDK he's chatting with Gordon then running off being pursued by cops, no signs of any injuries?? I mean, he recovered from a broken back in less time than a gammy leg! I presume there was voodoo going on but that's never even implied.

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Saw it at the IMAX last night (no trailers), and really enjoyed it. That said there is plenty I could nitpick/would personally have done differently:-

The whole cripple thing at the beginning (and then later in the film). Totally not worth it. Why have him crippled at all, it's 8 years later and no injury was explicit from the previous film, especially when as many have pointed out he's going to get seriously injured later and more importantly for me he just goes oh yeah actually i'll give this exercise thing a go. Oh wow back to normal.

I would have much preferred him living the life of a vacuous playboy, he'd had to abandon the bat but had become stuck carrying on his pretence of being a dumb millionaire. Have him turn up at a party at his own house for 5 minutes just to make an appearance having been out with some girls somewhere else, before dissapearing off to his room alone.

Bane should have been a real terrorist. Him and his men mounting attacks on Gotham and terrorising it at will. Following on from the Dark Knight where Batman goes to Asia to pick the guy up. Batman goes to Bane's base of operations (in whatever country the pit is in), thinking he can take Bane down and stop the terrorism at it's source. He oversteps himself and ends up with a broken back and put down the pit.

The whole shares/money thing, so pointless. 'Bruce all your money has been stolen' 'Ahh oh well'.

The nuclear bomb? Which was just a fancy fusion thing that could be turned into a nuclear bomb by 1 scientist. But it wasn't worth flooding it before? Lets see we have this thing you're worried about it being a bomb, but you're not going to destroy it or use it to create free energy? Also millions was spent creating this thing, so I assume the millions weren't spent on Fox and Wayne's wages while they decided to assemble it together, so there's a good chance another 1 could be built at some point.

Why not just have Bane stealing and kidnapping and smuggling until he could make, erm an actual nuclear bomb?

Also I realise ticking time bombs are pretty common in Batman (at least from what i remember from the tv show), but why not have the threat a little less defined - i.e. no specific countdown -maybe it's not good for building tension but personally i'd like to see a bomb where people have an idea but aren't certain how long til the bomb will blow.

The police fight - I was really sure this was the point it was going to turn into Bugsy Malone. In fact the way everyone traded down their guns for punches it pretty much was a medium weight Bugsy moment.

The idea was nice and the general aesthetic was good but someone should plotted it together more.

Once Batman burst through into the room with Bane and whoever, it completely jumped out of the previous action, you lost the big effect that there was meant to be this massive (okay only a punch up) happening outside. We didn't need to have anyone directly interrupt the fight but the feeling needed to be carried through.

Bane's death (assuming it was 1) was pretty nothing having been the major villain. She was not good enough to deserve to be the big bad. No threat when that turn came. Bane's voice was threatening but I did find it hard to understand at times.

Like I said i enjoyed it, but I would have done a few things different :)

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. I did enjoy the movie but the film is best enjoyed inside the cinema being swept along with the action and slightly falls down when you think about the plot. I must admit, I was surprised Wayne was a cripple at the start. I can't really remember what injury he had at the end of Dark Knight but I'm sure none of us would have been questioning it if after 7 years a billionaire injury might have healed up. I found the back injury slightly harder to believe that it healed that quickly, particularly with the two unsuccessful attempts out of the pit which should have done his back in all over again!

I was also amused how everyone knew exactly when the bomb was going to go off. We start off with Bane saying 5 months (which I presume is just a best guess as each month has differing amounts of days), we then go to a simplistic green/red colour coding until finally we get an exact timer with a time which everyone seems to know exactly what the timer says despite half the characters having no access to to the bomb.

I like your idea of Batman being at the top of his game, pursuing Bane to his base of operations and then getting his arse royally handed to him. Would have been a much more interesting plot than a crippled batman trying to pick a fight with someone who is clearly going to dominate him. And where were his toys in the fight? We had some firework things but nothing which really suggested Bats knew he was about to fight a real badass!

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I thought the whole being injured thing was just Bruce Wayne faking it for a cover story? I mean at the end of TDK he's chatting with Gordon then running off being pursued by cops, no signs of any injuries?? I mean, he recovered from a broken back in less time than a gammy leg! I presume there was voodoo going on but that's never even implied.

He is clearly injured when first facing off against Catwomen in his house, then the Doctor confirms his leg is knackered and then he gets a fancy new toy from Fox and, viola, his leg is back to normal again and its never mentioned again. Honestly, his bloody leg was signposted so much in the first bit of the film I felt sure it was going to have some kind of repercussion later on but it is never heard from again.

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He is clearly injured when first facing off against Catwomen in his house, then the Doctor confirms his leg is knackered and then he gets a fancy new toy from Fox and, viola, his leg is back to normal again and its never mentioned again. Honestly, his bloody leg was signposted so much in the first bit of the film I felt sure it was going to have some kind of repercussion later on but it is never heard from again.

I thought that was just a fake injury to get him into the same hospital as Jim Gordon?

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It is to get him into the hospital but there is also a scene of a doctor talking through x-ray plates with him post-examination, so the visit had a double purpose. You also have a scene of him grimacing in agony when he's putting the leg exo-skeleton on while Alfred looks on.

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He is clearly injured when first facing off against Catwomen in his house, then the Doctor confirms his leg is knackered and then he gets a fancy new toy from Fox and, viola, his leg is back to normal again and its never mentioned again. Honestly, his bloody leg was signposted so much in the first bit of the film I felt sure it was going to have some kind of repercussion later on but it is never heard from again.

Yes, until it became clear that his back recovery would take place when he's isolated in the prison, I thought that that was setting up a similar sort of bracing gadget to play a part in his recovery.

As for the film's biggest "teleporting character" criticism:

When Bruce magically gets back to Gotham after being in the prison, my assumption was that he found a phone and contacted Alfred, who had him flown back to the US. The thing is, if that was the case we should have been shown that reunion: it felt like it was the right point in the movie for them to reconcile.

Of course that doesn't explain how he got back into Gotham, but I suppose he could have walked across the frozen river - Batman Begins showed us during his training with Ra's Al Ghul that he's got some experience minding his surroundings on thin ice, unlike the citizens sent into exile!

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I personally don't really care how

Bruce got back in Gotham. He did, which is all that mattered. Come on, he is the Batman. He traveled the world on his own with no money. He survived prisons, had years of training, learned to survive. As if blown up bridges will stop him.

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Back from seeing it and I loved it from start to finish but judging from some of the posts maybe I saw a more complete version than others, because the "plot holes" and "inconsistencies" that seem to be raising people's ire, never registered once to me. Everything that happened was either explained and alluded to by the characters in this film or had been established by other characters in the previous films.

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More thoughts on Bane and 'other' persons:

I previously compared him to a darker version of Bruce, and while that does hold up in several ways, on reflection I think he serves another purpose entirely:

Bravo. Very insightful.

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