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polygon_monkey
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I was very careful NOT to say that.  I realise it's possible to 'get' the joke and still not find it funny.

I too hate it when someone tells me I didn't 'get' the Matrix when I think it's a load of cobblers.

That wasn't aimed at you actually and I had noticed that you didn't fall foul of doing it.

It was directed more at people like wickedkitten:

But...but...I wasn't having fun when the characters started talking about goldfish, superman, about record stores, cleaning up shit and being a 'cunt' etc. etc.

you missed the whole premise of the bride, relationship between her and bill, and byplay between her and you know who then.

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Eh? He's one of the best if not the best in the business when it comes to dialogue. There are countless examples, but the scene between Hopper and Walken in True Romance is all the evidence you'll need.

i was talking specifically about Kill Bill, especially Vol 2 in which many of the conversations are entirely pointless. these characters aren't cool, they are, infact, crushing bores.

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i was talking specifically about Kill Bill, especially Vol 2 in which many of the conversations are entirely pointless. these characters aren't cool, they are, infact, crushing bores.

See i totally agree with andy here.

My problem with tarantino dialogue is that it gives no nuance of character. Every single character in every single QT film speaks like QT. I think he is absolutely the WORST dialogue writer in Hollywood today. Every single person on the screen is a foul mouthed pop culture loving moron with quick wits. The beauty of dialogue is that its supposed to give texture to the character while forwarding the plot. QT writes caricatures, not characters.

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Good point Kerraig, but don't you agree with what John said, about the characters becoming slightly more distinct in later films (JB and KB specifically)?

Actually, now I think about it I'm not sure it's true of Kill Bill but Jackie Brown seemed a definite improvement on that front.

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wasn't Jackie Brown based on a book though?

Yes, and that does expain it to a certain extent, but Tarantino changed quite a lot from the book - not the plot but the relationships between the characters and a lot of their dialogue. The romance between Jackie and the bail-bond guy for instance barely existed at all in the book IIRC, so Tarantino should take more credit than he is generally given I reckon. But you are right, Elmore Leonard had laid the foundations.

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Well with Jackie brown to an extent I agree. The bail bond is certainly the most 'real' character QT has ever written. But I also think that the source material was a big factor in this. The characters that are entirely QT's creation are just the same old bunch of foul mouthed idiots. the line "when you absolutely positively gotta kill every mother fucker in the room" makes me cringe every time i hear it.

I dont see any unique voices in Kill biil unfortunatel. Does anybody really believe that Bill loves comic books? "my names Buck, and I like to Fuck"...The script hurt my ears for the most part. And I HATE the Bride character.

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I was out shopping yesterday (in Belgium) and found a two disc limited edition of Kill Bill, and it would seem it has quite a few extra features not present on the UK release:

Auto translated from DVD.nl

Someone know bank what more over the extra-disc that the NL-version has?  Experience learns that an extra disc sometimes alone but serves the praise what more high to lay.  Of the RCV-site, I have below specs and it resembles rather the other versions, except of then that exclusive recordings with a threesome comments.  This can be natural also an a featurette of 3 minutes with single interviewclips. 

http://re.guts.nl/filminfo.html?showfilmnr...&type=koopvideo

Disc 1: De Film

Image: • broad image Anamorphic • Rationale 2.35:1 • Arranged for all image sizes

Sound: • English DTS 5.1 • English Dolby Digital 5.1

Subtitles: • Dutch (optioneel at/from)

Extra’s: • Lively selection menu • chapter division • Trailers

Specs: • Genre: Action • Speelduur: ca.  111 minutes

Disc 2: De Extra’s

• The Making or Kill Clenched Unique look behind the fence Exclusive images of recordings Comment

stage-manager Quentin Tarantino Comment male leads - Uma Thurman (The Bride) - Lucy Liu (O-Run Ishii) - Vivica

A. fox Terrier (Vernita) - Julie Dreyfus (Sofie Fatal) Comment producer Lawrence Bender

• Muziekclip of “5, 6, 7, 8” (‘Jayne Mansfield and I’m Blue’)

Whilst the disc 2 stuff doesn't sound much, I can't believe they would give an entire second disc away with only a 15 minute featurette. Maybe RCV (the Dutch/Belgian distributor) has decided to skip the vanilla version of the films and is releasing the special editions straight away with only the box set to follow?

Does anyone have any idea on the proposed release dates and contents of future Kill Bill DVD's?

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I've read the big set is going to be realeased around Christams. What it contains remains to be seen, but expect both movies (perhaps edited as one film?), cut scenes (like the Bill fight in China) and perhaps new one of more new animes.

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I personally had no troube believing Bill liked comics (which is the only pop culture speech in the whole movie by the way). Do you need to have a Spider-Man t-shirt and a big I'm a comic book geek' stamp on your forehead to enjoy comic books? Why can't this guy like Batman?

Like I wrote earlier, I felt they were real characters in their own crazy universe. Not only did I feel for The Bride, but also for O-Ren, for Bill, for B.B., for that little girl who lost her mother.

Just like I felt for Jackie Brown and Max, for Clarence and Alabama and for Mr. Orange who was slowly bleeding to death.

Worst dialogue writer in Hollywood is a ridiculous statement to make. It's one the main reasons why he's such a praised director. You don't win a Palm 'd Or and a best script Oscar if you can't write good sentences.

If you can write a scene like the one between Hopper and Walken you are a very gifted writer. Or the Walken speech in Pulp. Or the wonderful finale of Jackie Brown. Or the whole opening of Dogs.

The problem is that many people tried to impersonate Tarantino. And failed miserably while at it. It is lonely at the top after all.

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Do you think that if this was Tarantino's first film, that it would of been as draw dropping as Reservoir dogs?

If you look at Kill Bill, a lot of the reason I seem to be drawn to it is the cool style of it all, more visual than anything. I do love all of Tarrantino's films but this one seems to slack off a little in most cases. The ' Buck, and I like to fuck' - how old is tarantino?

I did like the bride character and especially Bill (and I did'nt think he waffled on at the end cus it seemed like the best part to me)

Think if they had made Kill Bill years ago with a lower budget (which could be possible) and with the same script. I don't think that it would make much of an impact. But strappling THE 4TH FILM BY QUENTIN TARANTINO on it seems to get everyone to watch it.

At the end of the day I liked it, but its not on the same lines as Jackie Brown and it certainly ain't any Pulp Fiction

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I'm happy for anyone who liked KillBill 1/2, and it's not really a fair comparison to make (apart from the use of anecdotes to build a story), but it's being made by people anyway....but i'd just like to say go and watch Pulp Fiction again and enjoy :unsure: KillBill just aint up to scratch for me, mainly script wise, and not in the "overall story kinda-way" that's fine, for me the anecdotes aren't sharp, funny or witty enough compared to Dogs, Pulp and Brown.

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Have you seen the "making of" on the Kill Bill DVD? Tarantino said in that that in each series of Hattori Hanzo it was a different Hatorri Hanzo set 30 years or whatever further on in time (sort of Black Adder type thing I suppose) and he saw his Hattori Hanzo as the version set a few hundred years on from that.

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This came out in NZ on Thursday and I just got back from seeing it.

I really, really enjoyed it. Not in a 'fuck yeah!" way that I enjoyed Reloaded (despite it's flaws) but rather in that it's a very satisfying movie.

I don't think it's a top 10 for me, but I do see myself being able to rewatch vol.1 and 2 many times over. I can't remember seeing a movie in recent times that left me so satisfied... I mean, I liked how everything panned out. She didn't kill everyone, Elle's fate was fantastic and not certain. I liked the chronological telling of the story. I liked that how (between the two films) it had it's all out action bits but also had it's quiet tense bits too. It had funny bits, cringy bits and creepy bits.

I was really impressed with Carradine's acting as Bill. He genuinely seemed like someone not to fuck with. At the end, he always held the upper hand - always one step ahead which is probably why he was always in charge.

The last fight was really cool in its brevity. I dont see why the final showdown always has to be the biggest and baddest. It reminds me of *EQUILIBRIUM SPOILER*** Christian Bale's character cutting that black dude (sorry, cant remember his name) up in just a few movements ***EQ SPOILER END***.

I really enjoyed the Pai Mei chapter and the burial segment was genuinely creepy - what a horrible fate to received. The noise of the shovelled dirt was genuinely disconcerting. But what I enjoyed more was how the Pai Mei bit tied into the escape - a nice piece of (obvious) foreshadowing. I particularly liked how Pai Mei wasn't a kindly old master - he was a fucken wanker.

Character wise - I really liked them all. Only Elle didnt seem to have any redeeming qualities and her end was suitably fitting. Loved it.

I'm glad I go into movies to enjoy them now. I used to go into critique, but I enjoy my films more now that I don't.

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I got pretty much all of it...not that I can remember it though...

uh, basically he said that he could see why Bill was attracted to Beatrix, he was always a fool for blondes. Then he said that he thought Bill was too harsh by shooting B, he would have just cut her face (calls over prostitute with cut face). Then he tells B where Bill was, and said that he only done it because he knows Bill would have wanted him to.

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I had that problem with the Pimp, and also the sherriff in the first movie. I understood what he was saying enough to know what was going on, but didn't get all the subtleties and humour/true "genius" of the speech until I watched the DVD with subtitles on.

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As for the Superman speech, as soon s Bill says "As you know, I'm keen on comic books..." I rolled my eyes. Time for the almost obligatory Tarantino trademark pop culture diatribe. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huuuuge fan of Tarantino and love all his movies (including this one) but this speech in particular felt tired, limp and almost self parodical.

But that speech is self parodical. The whole obvious exchange between the Bride and Bill of how long it would take for the serum to kick in - "oh, a couple of minutes, just long enough to make my point", coupled with the Bride's exasperation at this self-indulgence, was clearly a nod from Tarantino towards the fact that this was such a blatantly "Tarantinoesque" piece of writing. Got a laugh from the audience anyway, but turned out to be a much stronger observation of the Bride's character than it initially seemed.

As for the Two Pines sequence, I found that any accusations of long-windedness were dissipated for me through the underlying sense of inevitable doom running through the entire Bill-Bride dialogue. Little flashes where you got a picture of how dangerous Bill was. And the pull out shot from the chapel to the Deadly Vipers was just fantastic.

By the way, one piece of writing that I really, really liked was Elle Driver's encyclopedia-style description of the Black Mamba. Brilliantly cold and villainous.

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Not enough guns 5/10

And DiscoStu your wrong, there is a move which can cause someone's heart to explode within 5 steps, though of course, 5 steps is just used to mean a very short time, not that if you sat down you'd live forever.

I know this, because the gf took great pleasure telling me how QT cocked up the Pai Mei story. I don't care but apparently...

He is dressed like a Dao master, they where there hair in that style specificallly and stuff, yet his style is Shaolin. Dao do not actually attack the body with punches or weapons, but instead use controlled air pressure to destroy the opponents organs without scratching the skin. Also, as a master of Dao that whisp of the beard he would NEVER have done, as he would have pulled it down to help control his air pressure.

To be honest I think she's the only person that cares about this anywhere. But there you go.

And yeah, not enough guns BY FAR. The few glimpses of a western we were afforded were cruel, especially with that dusty trailer park in nowhere.

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Dao do not actually attack the body with punches or weapons, but instead use controlled air pressure to destroy the opponents organs without scratching the skin.

:0

Is this a style still used in the world? Because that is some mad shit!

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:0

Is this a style still used in the world? Because that is some mad shit!

yeah. it's like those monks who use air to balance with just their neck on a spear, but instead of using air to protect, they use it to attack. Sounds far fetched, but I dunno, I believe her.

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I can't seem to find anything about it online. I've tried a few different search strings to no avail.

How does your girlfriend know all this stuff? She sounds dangerous.

she's chinese, and learned about it in PE or something. She was waving her hands around anyway yesterday trying to demonstrate excersies used to store and control air.

just looked on google. Try searching for Dim Mak, that sounds roughly similar to what she was going on about, but without the air pressure bit.

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